Trim Tag: none at all or repro?

[Pacecarjeff]

No one who orders a "replica" trim tag, (except maybe for this one guy).
To use the exact information on their existing tag.
EVERY SINGLE PERSON CHANGES SOMETHING.

Whether it is the interior color, or paint color, or to make it a Z/28. or a big Block. There is a reason for doing it and it is not "usually" an honest one.

I know of a few Corvette guys who have every piece of original documentation on their cars. However years ago some idiot wanted to change to leather interior, or go from green to red. Back then it was not a big deal. NOW the cars have phoney trim tags on them. Can't get Gold at Bloomington. They are perfect cars but the pedigree is always questioned.
These were not documented changes, and no one has the original tags anymore - those cars are screwed.

WHEN YOU CHANGE SOMETHING IT ALWAYS COMES BACK AT YOU.
MIGHT TAKE 20 YEARS. BUT SOMEONE IS GOING TO LOSE.

The only purpose for a "replica" POP or Trim tag is to change something.
No other purpose, Nada / none.

It always starts out honestly, (a guy wants to change his car to leather interior)
It's his car he can do whatever he wants - RIGHT.
Well 20 years ago, no one could tell the difference.
Now 2 or 3 or 4 owners later, that car has a "repro tag" - even though it is a real car, and hasn't been changed except for the tag and interior- Someone gets screwed.
Usually it is the guy who doesn't know better, or is new to the hobby.

You don't know what your body number was, so you have to pick one. Someone may already have that one in use - sounds like a problem.

It is a no win situation, except for the guy who buys it from you and then makes money on it.

Someone earlier had sugested a tag with no body number, or maybe XXX's - I thought that is a good idea - I thought that is what GM used to do if the tag was damaged

[Verne_Frantz]

As for the "X"s, that's correct. If incorrect characters were stamped on the tag, it was reloaded into the fixture and re-pressed with "X"s over the wrong info, and the correct info was added alongside. But I've only seen this on the Trim, Paint and ACC lines. Based on the earlier tags that I am familiar with, the tags went through two embossing tools. The first stamped the build date, year and style number, the plant designation and sequential body number. The other information was added later, after that particular body got picked from the "bank" and assigned to a car build order (a Broadcast). Sometimes the second stampings overlapped the first ones.

Verne

[Lynn]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


For instance, now everyone is questioning every tag, just because
there are so many fakes out there. You can’t help that it had no tag when you bought it.
However, if the car ever does change hands and a fake tag is discovered, the assumption is going
to be that the whole car was faked.

Again, just my opinion.

Lynn

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts are with you and Vern. I would like to add to the above comment by raising a question.

What if one was faked and the car sold and some new 2nd owner down the line found out and went back in a lawsuit against each previous owner seeking money for the difference in value or his money back?

I realize there is a time limit like 3 or 5 years here in Okla. but would faking one and not discloseing something like this not leave a person a sitting duck for a lawsuit?

Pantera

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Actually the limitation is 2 years for fraud, but the two years does not begin to run until the fraud is discovered. Actual wording of the Okla Statute is "... Two years....an action for relief on the ground of fraud - the cause of action in such case shall not be deemed to have accrued until the discovery of the fraud". The courts have further defined the discovery to include not only actual discovery, but the time a "reasonable man" (fictitious nonexistant person - if we are men we can't be reasonable, just ask your wife)would have, or should have discovered the fraud.

Lots of liablility hanging out there in my opinion. I know from personal experience that one of the guys that frequents this board came within an eylash of getting sued by a guy who had the bucks to finance a serious lawsuit. He doesn't know how lucky he was that the buyer ended up making enough on the car that he essentially had no damages.
Check some of the Ferrari boards. It is my understanding some guys have gotten hammered pretty bad in court after changing tag info. Yeah, it was legal to do it to their own car. But fraud is fraud, and if it is used to deceive, and someone gets burned, there can be serious civil repercussions. If it happens in the right state, with an agressive DA or AG, could also end up with some criminal repercussions.

No, I don't think we should run to court every time someone causes a hangnail. If damages get serious enough, that is where it will end up. After all, the real fraudsters are doing it to make more money. If they get hit in the pocketbook, maybe they will quit.

Lynn

[Pantera]

Lynn,

Thanks for the very good reply. It was even better than I had in mind.


Since some of them just may be reading these posts I hope that they stop and think about what you just posted. Perhaps the best way to put a stop to these guys is for them to be hammered in court a few times and they will think twice about commiting fraud. After all it is all about the Money...!


Pantera

[chavist93]

Ok, put yourself in my shoes for a minute. Everything about fraud and all aside, because that is not what this is about. If this was your car that you planned on keeping for the rest of your life what would you do? Just leave nothing there or but a fake one that reflects exactly how the car came from the factory?

[PeteLeathersac]

Ok Tim, in your shoes I'd consider finding a used tag first. . Even though the body number would be wrong, it'd be wrong if you make one up for a repop tag anyway. . Give it a go, it may be fun searching and if you can't find something acceptable to yourself, consider the repop unit....you may have a whole different perspective then anyway and not shelled out the dough yet? ~ Pete

[chavist93]

I have 3 parts cars with tags, all of them the wrong colo though. I really havn't seend many nantucket blue SS cars. If I went with a repop I could use the body number off one of the parts cars so I wouldnt have anyone elses number.

[Lynn]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, put yourself in my shoes for a minute. Everything about fraud and all aside, because that is not what this is about. If this was your car that you planned on keeping for the rest of your life what would you do? Just leave nothing there or but a fake one that reflects exactly how the car came from the factory?

[/ QUOTE ]

I absolutely sympathize with you. As I stated before, there is no question you are not trying to deceive anyone or you wouldn't have posted the question on a very public forum.

Also, the fact that your VIN designates an SS certainly would be a mitigating circumstance. Hope you understand that this has really turned into a general discussion about ropopped tags rather than a discussion of your initial question. That is why I apologized for hijacking your thread.

As far as what to do, that is certainly your decision. However, there are certain folks that I refuse to do business with just on principles. Once another lawyer lies to me, I will never take his or her word again. If they want me to act on something, they must give it to me in writing (has only happened twice, but believe me, I know who those two lawyers are, and always will). I wouldn't buy anything from someone whom I know is using illegal child labor, even if I have to pay more to get a comparable product. I buy New Balance shoes partly because they are the only manufacturer I know of who still makes very wide shoes for my EEEE foot, but I also seek them out on principle because they are the last major sport shoe manufacturer in the U.S. In other words, I vote with my money.

I would not give a trim tag company one dime to further what they are doing regardless of how much I might like the product, because I don't like what they are doing to the hobby. I admit I am lucky in that my trim tag is in pristine condition. Not sure if I have a small enough pic, but if so, I will attach it. Someone else stated on this thread that he might feel differently if his car needed a new tag for whatever reason. I honestly don't think I would. Doesn't make me any better than anyone else, just more opinionated.

Would I look down on you if you put a repop tag on? Not at all. Hopefully we can just agree to disagree, respectfully. Wouldn't look down on anyone that bought a Nike shoe either. I have lots of friends that I disagree with on some issues. The free exchange of ideas and opinions helps us all grow.

Overall, I think , even the guys that disagree with me.

Now, I need to get to work on my car one of these days so I can go drive the crap out of it.

Lynn

[Verne_Frantz]

Getting back to the original question.....would you mind trying to explain why you feel you NEED a tag on the firewall of the car you plan to own 'till you die and just enjoy?
If your restoration goal is to try and make the car as "right" as possible, any other tag you put on it will not be "right".
If the goal is to have a car that looks great, runs great and is a ball to own and drive forever, what difference does a tag on the firewall make?

If you lose your birth certificate, you can call the hospital where you were born and the state to obtain a replacement. The birth certificate of your car is gone. You can't call Fisher Body and get a duplicate. ANY tag you could put on that car now would be incorrect.
Why not just enjoy the car? I don't understand the "need"................

[chavist93]

Well really because it looks silly without one there. I love going to local car shows and cruises and I dont want to hear "hey, wheres your trim tag?" all the time. Of course I could leave the hood closed but whats the fun in that? If a fake one is ther I dont really think people would look close enough to even tell its fake. I know I wouldnt unless I was looking to buy. Anyways the answer to your question, just for looks.