Webster's 67 Bel Air Conversion

[kwhizz]

And you can make them presentable after installation.........Here's a pic from my Impala

[PxTx]

At this point in life, I prefer traditional builds just because everywhere I look there seems to be an modern/LS muscle car build and turbos and fuel injection and big wheels...there just feels like an over-saturation of those builds. I understand they are very popular, magazines sponsors are influencing the content to drive sales of their LS products etc.

Since I don't subscribe to magazines any more, I do appreciate Ken's threads and his documentation, craftsmanship and humor. I'm not offended by the build, but I might not click on the thread for several days at a time.

I look forward to seeing an LS build which tries to have a more nostalgic feel. Somebody may one day figure out a way to make the motor look like and older sbc. It wouldn't surprise me if it has been done and I just haven't seen it- I'm sure my taste is in a small minority.

Now since the LS motors make so much hp, I realize the appropriate braking system might not fit within a 15" wheel. I can't help that big wheels are one of my biggest turn offs visually- at least for muscle cars of the 1960's. Cars form the 1980/1990's like the Mustangs Camaros, Buicks etc I am a but more open minded, but I still prefer a period theme over modern ques.

At the end of the day though, I feel Yenko.net is has plenty of the traditional stuff which is harder to find, and enough diversity like Ken's builds for my taste evolve more naturally- what I want rather than when I grew up and the magazines of the 1980's & 1990's heavily influenced my perception of cool.

Not every thread hits a home run with me, but this IS my favorite place on the net. Thanks to everyone who shares their passion here!

[VintageMusclecar]

I wonder if an EFI'd 500&quot; Big Block torque monster might sway Ken back over from the dark side... [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif[/img]

[Charley Lillard]

Been there-done that more than once. Still not as good as a good LS. At 950 hp I bet I still will get at least 18 mpg with the ac on this year on Hot Rod Power Tour.

[VintageMusclecar]

No arguing those numbers. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

Just out of curiosity-- how many cubic inches, how much boost, and what's the cruise rpm on the highway (~70 mph)?

Lastly, what does an engine like that cost to build?

[Charley Lillard]

427&quot; Not sure of the boost but the engine makes 700 hp with no boost. At 80 mph I'm about 2200 rpm. Thomson Automotive sells the engines for 40K. Same engine with E85 will push over 1000 hp.

[PxTx]

Playing the devil's advocate:

This costs $13,781 for 620hp which is $22.22 per hp.


This on the other hand is $20k for $638hp which works out to be $31.35 pr hp. I can't begin to guess where the ratio goes at 950hp.


I realize there is more usable power under the curve on the LS AND it will get more mpg then the 572 but I also believe the cost to install the LS motor has significant adders over what it takes to install the 572 in a popular muscle car. I'm willing to bet that the install delta between these two options if not performing the swap yourself is close to 10K. If you are a diy- it is harder to speculate on a theoretical skill set and the value offset.

So one gets 10mpg and the other gets 18mpg while costing $10-20k more. How long till you make up that delta?

Taking the cost out and factoring only weight, performance, reliability type things- the LS certainly make a lot of sense. I do understand their appeal.

[VintageMusclecar]

As much as I detest quoting magazine articles, there are two that come to mind:

October 2014 (sorry, can't find a web link to the story online other than this, but it leads to a dead link): CC builds a turbocharged 454 pulled from a Suburban, added a mild HR cam and a pair of Brodix heads and winds up making 950+ HP and over 1030 lb.ft. at just over 19 psi. When they added race gas it made 1200+ HP and 1300+ lb.ft @ 29 psi. Note this was going through a single plane intake, an 850 Holley and still using the OEM short block--iron crank, cast pistons, and stock rods. All they did was open up the ring gaps. Disclaimer: IMO they're nuttier than squirrel sh*t making that kind of power on the stock bottom end.

2003: Import Killer Using a 454 HO crate short block, they added AFR heads, a Crane hydraulic roller, and a Vortec supercharger. On pump gas it made 950+ HP and 750+ lb.ft.

Both are admittedly old school approaches, but the power is still there. I wonder how civilized either of these could be with the addition of a modern EFI system.

Don't misunderstand, I'm a big fan of the LS platform, but I'm not ready to throw in the towel on the beloved rat motors just yet.

(Sorry to digress from the topic of the thread!!!! [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/frown.gif[/img] )

[Charley Lillard]

A huge difference is driveability. If my Mom were still alive she could drive my 950 hp car. I have a 509&quot; BBC old school EFI in a 32 Ford making a claimed 750 hp that I would never let my Mom drive. It is neat but not even in the same room with the LS. The 20K LS9 shown above can easily make a dependable and driveable 750 hp with a little tweaking.

[VintageMusclecar]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A huge difference is driveability. If my Mom were still alive she could drive my 950 hp car. I have a 509&quot; BBC old school EFI in a 32 Ford making a claimed 750 hp that I would never let my Mom drive. It is neat but not even in the same room with the LS. The 20K LS9 shown above can easily make a dependable and driveable 750 hp with a little tweaking. </div></div>

Check your PM's please. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif[/img]