Pontiac may be dead by monday..

[Canuck]

New item this AM. GTO now stands for Gone To Orphanage.

http://ca.news.finance.yahoo.com/s/27042...ed-pontiac.html


Paul

[SmallHurst]

The orphan car show in Yipsilati will look more like a normal car show.

[Chevy454]

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New item this AM. GTO now stands for Gone To Orphanage.

http://ca.news.finance.yahoo.com/s/27042...ed-pontiac.html


Paul

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Haven't y'all heard, they're Shutting Detroit Down...

[bashton]

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New item this AM. GTO now stands for Gone To Orphanage.

http://ca.news.finance.yahoo.com/s/27042...ed-pontiac.html


Paul

[/ QUOTE ]
Haven't y'all heard, they're Shutting Detroit Down...

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The sad thing is, this is no exaggeration.

Things here in the Detroit area are long past bleak and not looking like they are going to be much better for a long time.

Bashton
MCACN Managing Member

[SeattleCarGuy]

One comment I have in response to GM's build quality over the past several years is that personally speaking, I have an '01 Z-06 Vette that I use exclusively as a track car on the road course. I run about 8 track events per year, full bore, driving the hell out of it at the top of the A class with various clubs I drive and instruct with. It now has 14,000 miles, almost all of which are track miles at 5000 RPM or more. Other than putting brakes on it after every 4th day and slicks after every 2nd day at the track, the car is bulletproof. No major repairs or other issues. It sits in my garage all winter, comes out in about two weeks from now for an event and never disappoints all Spring and Summer long. Great car, great engine, great reliability.

I also have an '06 Duramax with Allison trans. 56,000 miles now of towing car trailer and boat trailer and it has never had anything other than oil changes and fuel filter changes and its first trans fluid change a few thousand miles ago. Again, great quality and great reliability.

My '08 Mercedes AMG has been to the dealer for various minor issues in its first 12,000 miles. Nothing major, but still an annoyance and I always remind them of my Chevrolets' reliability.

My only beef with GM is that as a 39 year old guy, other than Chevrolet's trucks and their Vette's, I don't see myself driving anything else that Chevrolet currently makes. I like their Cadillac line, but then again, if I am gonna spend the kind of money it takes to get into a V version of one of the Caddy hot rods, then I might as well just spend the extra and get an AMG as I did.

Anyway, my two cents and I am sad to see that GM is in such bad shape right now.

[Late BrakeU2]

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No matter who's to blame it is pretty sad.And what division of GM is next on the chopping block?

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I'm sure Obama will let us know shortly.

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So it's the President's fault that GM has problems?

To another point, I find it hard to believe someone thinks GM has made crap through 2005. Certainly if you've had problems with your '00 Grand Prix, you have a right to be angry. But I think GM has made some pretty decent cars in the past 20 years. The dark ages were the 1970s and the X-cars. GM has had a lot of bright spots over recent history. Today, it's business model needs a drastic revamp even more than Impala.

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I never said GM made crap. Quite to the contrary some of the best cars they ever made were built this decade-most certainly in the area of performance. The problem is and has been for decades bloated unions,skimpy warranties,and corporate arrogance.

You can't pay hillbillys six figures a year to screw on dashboards-then keep them on a oxygen tube until their dirt nap. That's not meant to imply they shouldn't receive bennies.

Yeah i'm pissed because most of us here are/were infinitely more passionate about GM than the last twenty years worth of CEO's. Come on the 5TH gen is a classic case in point on how to miss the boat once again. How many stangs and Challengers have been sold in the last two years?? It really doesn't matter now,they are being nationalized as we speak and yes Obama is the defacto CEO. That's what happens when you don't get your ducks lined up- they had YEARS to initiate change and elected not to trim the fat. Just wait and see what castrated products are going to be offered in a couple of years from an auto giant run by politcians. It is not this admins fault- the blame lies squarely on Lutz and Waggoner IMO

A real shame.

[442w30]

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I never said GM made crap.


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I never said you did, hence my intro, "To another point," as I was addressing two comments in one post.

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You can't pay hillbillys six figures a year to screw on dashboards-then keep them on a oxygen tube until their dirt nap. That's not meant to imply they shouldn't receive bennies.

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I don't think some of the folks of Michigan and elsewhere will find your comment about hillbillies to be truthful. Besides, doesn't an import manufacturer have a plant in Kentucky?

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It really doesn't matter now,they are being nationalized as we speak

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So when Chrysler took their loan in 1979 or so, did you consider them "nationalized?"

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That's what happens when you don't get your ducks lined up- they had YEARS to initiate change and elected not to trim the fat.


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No, when you borrow some money from the government to sustain yourself, there will be some terms to be met. And judging by all the interest in numerous forums, I would think most people don't understand that GM needed to trim the fat a long time ago but didn't due to their brands being institutions. Now they're up against the wall and they have no other choice. It was a valiant effort, but it should have been done long ago. Personally, I don't blame them for resisting, but when the rest of the world operates in a competitive manner (and while the world has become more global), why did GM continue to lug this weight around?

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Just wait and see what castrated products are going to be offered in a couple of years from an auto giant run by politcians. It is not this admins fault- the blame lies squarely on Lutz and Waggoner IMO

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Get over yourself - the government is not running GM, and nothing's gonna be watered down. And GM would not have its current successes without Lutz, as he opened many doors that were kept closed by GM's clumsy bureaucracy.

[The Dude]

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You can't pay hillbillys six figures a year to screw on dashboards-then keep them on a oxygen tube until their dirt nap. That's not meant to imply they shouldn't receive bennies.


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In order to make 100,000 a year in an auto plant one would have to work 12 hours during the week and 16s on the weekends. One would have to sleep in their car between shifts and sometimes not go home for two days. And guess what? no one has made 100,000 in a long time. The days of unlimited overtime are over. A 40 hour check is all they see.

And for you information, the hillbillies that work for Toyota down in Georgetown make more than the Detroit hillbillies do. Are you pissed about that too?

[Late BrakeU2]

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I never said GM made crap.


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Get over yourself - the government is not running GM, and nothing's gonna be watered down. And GM would not have its current successes without Lutz, as he opened many doors that were kept closed by GM's clumsy bureaucracy.

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Exactly what current success's are you referring to?. When the leader of the free world can turf the CEO of the largest auto mfg in the world that my freind is a harbinger of things to come.

[Late BrakeU2]

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In order to make 100,000 a year in an auto plant one would have to work 12 hours during the week and 16s on the weekends. One would have to sleep in their car between shifts and sometimes not go home for two days. And guess what? no one has made 100,000 in a long time. The days of unlimited overtime are over. A 40 hour check is all they see.

And for you information, the hillbillies that work for Toyota down in Georgetown make more than the Detroit hillbillies do. Are you pissed about that too?

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The average UAW worker with a high school degree earns 57.6% more compensation than the average university professor with a Ph.D., and 52.6% more than the average worker at Toyota, Honda or Nissan.

The cost of labor per hour for GM is nearly $80 an hour when all employee related outlays are considered.