Yenko Optional Twin Sport Mirrors

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Color

[Supercar_Kid]

Upon closer inspection of a legit specimen, I've determined that the Hurst Olds mirrors are not the same as the one's Yenko used on the select Deuces. Not only do they differ in color and plating, but rather in size. The Deuce mirrors are much smaller in scale when you compare the two side by side. Not sure who manufactured either style, but the more I get to digging, the less significant the Hurst connection seems to be.

I'm fairly confident that the hood scoop used on the Jeepster Commando and the prototype Deuce are the same, whether it be out of coincidence or something more.

Outside of that, I can't think of one single item with perhaps the exception of maybe a dual gate shifter that can be confirmed the same on a Deuce and another Hurst converted vehicle.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

The smaller mirrors are the Talbots, but the deuces did not get those mirrors. The deuce mirrors are actually quite large in person, and we believe they also came on the Hurst rambler scramblers.

I think the jury is still out on the hood scoop. Don would not be committed to a scoop because it contained a dixco tach, he would most likely use whatever was cheapest - if any at all. For years we have wondered why Don went with the Dixco tach when he had been so committed to the SW's, the only thing we could think of was price!

The Hurst connection also involves the 4speed shifter lifted from the GTO, and the 50 cars that went to Hurst.

[Supercar_Kid]

You bring up an interesting point Marlin, I can't say I fully understand the Hurst shifter that was included on 4 speed equipped COPO 9010 Novas. Why necessitate the Hurst, obviously it's the superior shifter in terms of performance, but the stock Muncie unit was just fine in the '69 Chevelles & Novas, not to mention earlier Camaros etc. Is there any evidence of correspondence between Don and GM regarding the implementation of the Hurst unit? Wonder who figured out the Z/28 box and the Goat handle would work properly? There's got to be engineering docs somewhere. Kind of odd the Yenko Deuce is the only Chevrolet that wasn't a Camaro to get a factory installed Hurst shifter. Marlin your road race theory makes sense. The competition had Hurst, Don may have simply demanded it as part of the COPO. Wish we knew definitive answers to these questions.

[Schonyenko2]

In discussion with Marlin about the "dual gate shifter", if I remember correctly, none got the dual gate as in console mounted like would be in Rob's camaro, or a Hurst Olds. They were all auto sticks which had a dual shift pattern on the shifter ball, and could be manualy shifted, or left in auto. There was no "gate" like most people think of. This was an aftermarket, take it out of the box, install it, never a factory piece. The term is misleading. I know of no deuces with a console mounted Hurst dual gate shifter.
Muncie shifters were never in my opinion, fine. They belonged in the same garbage can as the smog sh t. They got tossed just about as fast as exhaust manifolds. I don't know who took the time to "engineer" the deuce 4 spd shifter setup but it works great.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

You are right Eric, there doesn't seem to be a ryhme or reason to the deuce combination of options. The hood scoop from that Jeep had me convinced it was the one, until I saw the pics of rebel machine scoop on Schoneyes hood - it too looks just like the brochure pic! So, I don't know which one it is - but will admit that I never even knew about that Jeep model until you posted that pic. You told me about the Jeep model several years ago, but I never saw a picture - it's pretty convincing, but the Rebel one is too, like you said, we just don't know

The shifter situation is a somewhat more clear, thanks to a conversation I had with G.Campbell several years ago - he was the VP of the shifter plant here in Warminster, PA. The combo of the Z28 box and the GTO arm came from their engineering dept, but Campbell did not have the doc's. It's possible that Dennis Kirban has them, and may not know it, but I have not been able to obtain them as Dennis is now involved with the GN's and GNX's. It appears that the 4177 arm is the standard 'bench seat 4speed arm' as it was used on several models. So, we believe that the only unique thing is the use of the Z28 box in order to have the arm come through the center of the tunnell. But WHY? We don't know why Yenko was so intent on getting Hurst shifters in the deuces - we believe it was to keep up with the 'Jones' - the SCCA cars like the Boss302's, the Challenger T/A's and AAR's. Campbell explained that factory installed shifters in the GM cars were always 'round stock' because it was cheaper to mfg'r than the flat stock version. He said it was weaker than the flat stock version, for obvious reasons. So, we surmise that Yenko decided to opt for the 'inexpensive' factory Hurst model for the 4speed cars instead of having to install OTC versions which would be more expensive. Basically the cost of the factory installed Hurst shifter would be less than Don buying the OTC version and paying his staff to install it - they already had to install approx. 53 a/t shifters. Time consuming to say the least!

The more I study the factory SCCA cars, the more I believe that Don had the Yenko Deuce destined for that series - but he may not have been able to sell enough, which is why he attempted to get it NHRA certified. BTW, Don didn't try to get the deuce cert'd for drag racing until quite late in '70, more effort was done in '71 than '70. But, we need more info to confirm his intentions.

[Supercar_Kid]

I thought Marlin had mentioned before that he knew of at least one Deuce that got a '69 style Hurst dual gate auto shifter in lieu of the long handled 4 speed appearing "Super Shifter." I believe he's mentioned that a few cars were sold with their column shifters intact as well. I can't say I know of a Dual Gate equipped example personally, so I won't argue the fact. I'm still trying to learn these cars myself.

As far as the factory installed Hurst 4 speed shifter on the 4 speed Deuces is concerned, do we know for sure it was Don who was behind it's implementation? I don't doubt that the engineers at Hurst could have quickly come up with the combination of using the existing '69 Z/28 offset shifter box with a GTO bench seat handle to properly fit in a Nova configuration when they were approached with the idea, but what interests me most is who came up with the idea of including a Hurst shifter as part of the 9010 COPO package in the first place, and what special preparations were taken to make it happen at the factory.

There were no year old Hurst Z/28 shifter boxes or GTO bench seat handles laying along the line at Willow Run prior to the batch of 9010 cars coming through. Nor would there be any other Nova floor pans to be stamped with the unique 4 speed shifter hole that the hybrid Hurst set up would require, and Fisher Body would have had to be made aware of this. The big block rods and K member would have to be on hand and ready to install. There would have had to have been some sort of "briefing" of the assembly line workers prior to the batch of COPO cars coming through.

When you think about it, it just seems like a lot of extra engineering went into utilizing the Hurst shifter in the 9010 cars, not to mention a lot of extra cost. Now from Yenko's perspective it sounds like a no brainer...pay a little extra and have the cars arrive with Hurst 4 speed shifters factory installed and ready to ship, or pay a crew to switch out nearly 100 Muncie shifters with expensive over the counter Hurst units and then be stuck with the original and essentialy worthless factory Muncie units. Seems like just another part of the COPO system that Don utilized to make his life a little easier back in Canonsburg. But for the brass at GM, I'm sure a cost analysis had to be done to decide what the Hurst shifter would cost in terms of actually getting it on the cars at the factory, and whether it could be justified to be done at all. Somewhere there's got to be paperwork or documentation of some kind discussing this. I'd love to know who's at the bottom of the idea to include the Hurst at the factory, and just what it took to build the special batch of COPO cars in the middle of regular Nova production.

When it comes down to it, a Yenko Deuce is essentially everything a 70 Z/28 is just wrapped in a Nova shell rather than a Camaro. Perhaps the Hurst shifter was something Don felt was required of a performance car, and having had them installed in his 69 Camaros he may have simply demanded it as part of his COPO package. I guess we'll never know until some docs turn up. I doubt Chevrolet offered to tool up to include the shifter without some prompting from Yenko's end, but if it was solely Yenko's idea you'd think some documentation regarding it would have popped up somewhere.

I guess maybe in time something will turn up. On a side note, does anyone have an original GM window sticker for a 9010 Nova? COPO Pete? I'd be curious to see how it lists the shifter.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

You are correct again regarding the extra work for GM to put the Hurst combo in the Nova! This combo is the only non-console one to come through the center of the tunnell, and it was indeed extra work for GM. When examining the method used to put the hole in the tunnell for the deuces, it is very interesting. The hole was originally cut open with a torch, as the edges are 'burned', but the template used must not have been big enough because the forward and aft edges are 'snipped'! So, not only did they have to engineer where this hole should be, they got it wrong - ie; too small 'lengthwise', and had to open it up. All untouched tunnells are like this, and it makes you wonder why they didn't just use the shifter boot bezel as the template (that's a tip for you guys repairing your tunnells!). I wish I could go back and quiz Don about this shifter choice, but....... The BB stuff like the rods and Xmember We are clueless on that one, only theories

To my knowledge there are no original GM window stickers found for the deuces, just the one that Yenko affixed. Pete has the GM of Canada info for his car, but nothing is listed regarding the shifter - just the two copo #'s. So, we believe the shifter was included with #9737, no proof - just a theory!

The a/t cars with the AutoStick vs. the Dual Gate is also interesting. We've believed that the standard auto shifter was the A/Stick, the that the optional a/t shifter was the dual gate. This optional dual gate version actually cost $80 with the actual a/t trans costing $85! The new knowledge that we've gained is from Tommy K's a/t deuce, since it's the first window sticker we have for an a/t deuce with the a/stick - the other window sticker is for a car claimed to have the dual gate. Tommy K's sticker is significant because the a/stick is also listed as an $80 option! We have thought for years that the optional shifter was this dual gate version, without the 'console'. There are original owner a/t cars with the 'short stick' non-console version of the dual gate shifter, as well as original owner cars with the a/stick version. Over the past few years we've learned that the a/stick is also a dual gate, and we now believe that both versions may have been installed (the short stick version sporadically), and either one cost you an extra $80. We need more info on original a/t cars to be conclusive, but that's where the info is leading us right now.

[Supercar_Kid]

What do you mean by a "short stick" non-console Dual Gate? If it didn't use the plastic Hurst "console" surround, what hid the shifter's guts? The tall "autostick" used a regular 4 speed style "super boot" and was rod activated correct? I've seen this setup in George Lyon's HO A/T Deuce. The Dual Gate was a cable operated shifter, that sits up off the floor and necessitates the use of the plastic "console" to hide it's inner workings. Do I have this straight? I'm just not quite comprehending how a true "Dual Gate" like the ones used in the '69 cars could be installed without a console to cover it's moving parts? Or was the tall stick on the AutoStick shifter a bolt on and was swapped for a shorter stick? I was under the impression the AutoStick shift handle wasn't a removable bolt on type. Marlin, just what the heck are we talking about here?

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

You have it straight, there appears to be a simple stick swap! The short stick stuck onto the a/stick mechanism. The cars with the short stick have a big boot to cover the junk.

Short story, most likely the same shifter, different arms, same price = no optional a/t shifter, just the a/stick which is indeed a dual gate!

I started/stopped typing that reply several times here, so probably got lost in it myself