Ram Air IV versus 455 HO - Page 9

Belair62 · #81 03-01-2004, 11:08 PM

I just saw a cool article on a comparison of a 69 Cougar Cvt 428 CJ and a 69 Bird 400 HO I think in Hemmings Muscle ? I couldn't believe the part about the throttle stop...very cool...why did they do it so it wouldn't twist the car or ?

StealthBird · #82 03-02-2004, 12:18 AM

They did this to protect the image of the GTO. The Firebird was 150-200 lbs. lighter than the Goat, and had better exhaust manifolds, but both engines were identical. In every road test I have where a Firebird and the GTO were present, the Firebird was always quicker by at least 2/10 of a second. Of course, the road testers had always removed the throttle stop.

But as far as Pontiac image was concerned, the GTO was THE flagship car. Pontiac rated the 350 hp GTO engine as 330 hp in the Firebird, and the 370 hp GTO RAIV was 345 hp in the Firebird.

The inside story was that they were trying to keep the 10 lbs. per hp (an unwritten GM law) in effect to keep the insurance companies happy. The 3450 lb RAIV Firebird at 345 hp verses the 3700 lb. RAIV GTO. Problem was, there WAS no corporate policy, it was really just an insurance gesture. For proof that GM didn't really have a "rule", I give you the 396/375hp Camaro weighing in at around 3500 lbs.

When Pontiac engineers ran the new 1967 Firebird 400 by GM top brass, management felt the Firebird broke their little rule of 10 lbs. per hp. But the engineers were all finished with the 1967 Firebird, and they weren't going to change anything last minute. Fact was, it was a lighter, smaller, better handling version of the GTO, and everyone knew it. In order to appease top brass, the engineers cobbled up a make shift throttle stop, and that stayed in place until 1969.

**Charley Lillard** · #83 03-02-2004, 01:14 AM

I had a one owner 68 Firebird 400 convert and the throttle stop was still there. I think I fixed it by just doing a little bending....

supergonzo · #84 03-02-2004, 01:51 AM

I agree with Mike. However when it came to rules, there were no rules for the "Flagship Division" Chevrolet. they were allowed to do pretty much whatever they wanted.

StealthBird · #85 03-02-2004, 02:37 PM

Just realized I said the throttle stop was used "until 1969", that of course included the 1969 model year. Probably should have said "until 1970".

Chevrolet was the big dog, and they were allowed to do whatever they wanted.

turbo69bird · #86 09-03-2005, 10:34 AM

I own an original RA IV firebird. The car was a race car and only has 15,000 miles on it. It was an engineering ordered car and it came through with a GTO carb linkage.
It was also sound deadener and radio delete. This car went 11:90's in C/stock back in 69.
I have ridden in many 455 HO, Super duty firebirds and I would put a RAIV car up against it all day long.
I have been drag racing ponchos since 87. Had just about every engine combo.
I have even had all the parts to complete a RAV motor, But not all at the same time.
I am currently racing a turbocharged 428 in a 69 bird @ 2900 lbs.
If anybody is interested in these cars
check out www.msnusers.com/RAIVBIRDPICS
there is a 68 GTO 4 spd W/4.33 gears
My RAIV 69 bird 4spd w/4.33 gears later changed to 4.88'S
And also a prostock RAV 4spd car. You can find the story of the RAV car in january 72 rodder and super stock magazine.
All three cars were raced by bill eckstrom of Bristol conn. and campaigned by Stephens pontiac. They are still in business today.
It's too bad more people don't know about Bill and his race cars. Every body knows who royal, knaffel, berger, yenco, and tasca are but stephens pontiac has stayed relatively unknown. I think more poeple would like to hear about some new cars rather than the same old stories about the same old cars. Even though all those other cars were pretty Killer cars.

**Charley Lillard** · #87 09-05-2005, 05:26 PM

Turbo...welcome to the site. Is this your 69 RA4 bird ? Does it still look that way ? Truly a very cool looking car.

Chevy454 · #88 09-05-2005, 07:00 PM

Whoa...

LS6 RAT · #89 09-06-2005, 06:40 AM

What a great thread! Love learning about Pontiacs, I would like to comment on the earlier threads discussing the different car weights. As some of you may know, I have purchased a couple of fine cars from Charlie. My current love of course is his former LS-6 'vette.
I had this car weighed and certified, it does have PS, PB, T/T, RWD. Car came in at 3340lbs without me and virtually no fuel in tank. Full tank of fuel will add 103lbs to car.

My former '69 L78 SS Camaro convertible weighed 3750lbs and my '70 440 R/T SE Challenger coupe weighed 3840lbs.

Steve_Hoog · #90 09-06-2005, 06:39 PM

Nice Bird!!!

Charley zoom in on the car across and behind, looks like a goat.

The Following User Says Thank You to StealthBird For This Useful Post:
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