1966 Yenko Stinger for sale - Page 5

djunod · #41 10-07-2002, 01:59 PM

There are Baldwin-Motion cars and there are Motion cars. Two different things.

**sixtiesmuscle** · #42 10-07-2002, 02:13 PM

I agree with Shor that some are misunderstanding the arrangement Don made with Jack. He essentially granted the right to sell these cars as Yenko Camaros. He provided the part & pieces to make them identicle to those that made a stop in PA., and profited from the sale of this right.
Furthermore, Jack Douglass was THE authorized dealer for Yenko cars in Chicago. Given the fact that he was authorized by Yenko to sell these cars,with all the Yenko trim, and, sold them as such, they became official Yenko Camaros.
Joe, by Yenko granting Douglass the right to do this, he sold Jack his "copyright" to "build" Yenko Camaros. Let's not forget, these were identical to the Yenko "built" in every material way. By selling Douglass the right to sell Yenko branded cars he agreed they would be sold as equal to the cars he sold to other Yenko dealers.
Again, I ask, was a Nickey Camaro built at Bill Thomas's shop in Anaheim NOT considered a Nickey Camaro, both by the public, and Nickey, back in '67 & '68? They had a business agreement, just like Yenko & Douglass. It seems pretty cut & dried tp ME, but, I understand there is room for reasonable people to disagree. BUT, to say that they are "copies", or merely run of the mill COPOS, seems to fly in the face of the facts.

#43 10-07-2002, 02:21 PM

I wonder if Vince Emme has any info on this? Maybe these cars were recorded in some way? Has anyone tried to document one of these through him?

**Charley Lillard** · #44 10-07-2002, 02:37 PM

Shor...That is a great question for Brian. Shor made a earlier comment,"Jack would pay Don 400 per car and Don would send him the stripe kits, window stickers, emblems etc." I would think that the Window Sticker from Yenko would mean alot. I haven't seen one of them for a Douglas car but I don't know how you could argue with a Yenko Window Sticker if they exist. I don't own one of these so I am sitting back enjoying the discussion.

copolocater · #45 10-07-2002, 03:00 PM

I don't see how there can be any inconsistancy here.I've asked questions and they have been answered.9561 is a copo,not a Yenko,not a Douglass,not a Courtesy,not a Scuncio it was a order # for a 427 camaro from GM in 1968-69.To assign a paticular dealer to that number doesn't hold weight.Fact,Don Yenko proffited from the sale of 9561 copo camaros sold at Jack Douglass Chevrolet.Fact,Don Yenko gave legal right in accepting financial commission to have his name and reputation placed on these copos.Fact,Don Yenko approved the sale and advertisement of the cars to be sold as yenkos.Fact, people purchasing these cars as such were assumably purchasing these cars as Yenkos.You can't dispute these cars as being nothing else but a Yenko and the original purchasers will probably tell you the same.Call it what you want Yenko,Jack Douglass Yenko,converted Yenko its got Dons blessing(financially)its a Yenko.

hvychev · #46 10-07-2002, 03:25 PM

Was their ever a quote from Don Yenko while he was alive as to the Douglas cars or cars like them? What did he consider them as?

**YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY** · #47 10-07-2002, 03:45 PM

Quote:
"Joe and Marlin, Of course the NICB comes back as Douglass Chevrolet. These cars were ordered from Douglass, invoiced to Douglass and sold new from Douglass. These cars never made a trip to Cannonsburg. This is not in question."

So, based on the paragraph above, how is it a Yenko compared to cars with NICB's from Yenko? Stripes, tach's, and emblems do not make a Yenko, whether it's on a COPO car or not.

The motion situation is related. Motion performance allowed you, or your dealer, to use his name, design, r&d, etc... when you bought his parts. Is the Corvette in Harrisburg, PA with the all the parts on it a Motion car? Joel says no. I think the Douglas situation is very similar to the non-'Baldwin' Motion cars - they are not real Motion cars in the financial sense of the word, and I think most people who are looking to buy a Yenko would pay more for a car with an NICB from 13-898.

Are you suggesting that we start calling our cars by their selling dealer-Yenko? We don't refer to all of the other Chicago dealers as Fencl-Tufo Yenko, Sorenson Yenko, Mancuso Yenko, etc... We call them Yenko's because that is who ordered them from GM, and that is where they came from. Should we call some of the '67 Yenko Camaros "Harrell-Yenko's" since Harrell did the labor on them? I don't know, possibly. We refer to some of the Deuces as Hurst cars since Hurst did the labor, but the NICB is still Yenko.

**Stefano** · #48 10-07-2002, 04:12 PM

I would like to clearify some of the information as it was told to me by Jack Douglass himself. I was not there either and if Jack says that I have not represented his story accurately then he is of course correct.

I would also take this opportunity to apologize to Jack and his family, for first off discussing him in the third person and allowing us to question his word and integrity here on this site.

He has long ago asked me to drop the topic. I just can't allow myself to do so.

It is no wonder why Jack Douglass and people like Joel Rosen don't want to have anything to do with "enthusiasts" when all we do is question their integrity.

There is a difference between opinion and fact and that is what is getting mixed up here.

The fact is that Don Yenko Founder of Yenko Sports Cars Inc. defined by application that which was a Yenko Super Camaro.

He and Jack had a verbal contract for Jack to act as the exclusive dealer for Yenko Sports Cars ,Inc. in Chicago,IL Metro Area.

Jack Douglass was an avid roadracer. He met both Don Yenko and Dona Mae while in pursuit of one of his greatest passions,roadracing. He ran with this crowd(and ran hard) and has many interesting stories, save for another thread.

Don made Jack aware of the new Super Camaros for the 1969 model year and lead Jack to believe ,as Don did with most other dealers that the only way to purchase one of the L72 Iron block Camaros was directly through him.

Jack had no reason to doubt him as he was well aware of Don's work with the Stinger and the 1967 and 1968 Camaros and there was no information provided to the dealers by GM to order the Super Camaros direct.

Jack agreed to take two truck loads of Yenko Cars to include Novas, Chevelles and Camaros. This is what was required to secure the State of Illinois as the franchised territory of Yenko Sports Cars Inc., for Jack Douglass Chevrolet,Inc.

It has been widly reported that Don Yenko had all pertinent paperwork removed from the cars prior to having them shipped to his dealers in the network. (Why?)

Jack states that the arival of the first truck load was a big deal. Everyone from all departments of the dealership came out to see the transporter load of Yenkos unloaded.

Jack states that he found Shipping Invoices "Shipper" in two of the Camaros from the initial transporter load.

These Shippers included the COPO information 9737 and 9561. Jack took this info and called his Zone Office to see if he could order the cars direct with the special codes.

The Zone replied that they were not familiar with the special orders and that they would contact GM headquarters.

GM Detroit called Jack back and told him that he could indeed order these special COPO cars direct.

Jack felt that Don Yenko had made a major missrepresentation and a breech of their contract, as now any dealer "in the know" could order the cars direct and sell them at a price advantage over the SYC cars. Case in point Berger Chevrolet.

Jack placed an order for his own cars without consulting Don Yenko. Jack used the Yenko Blue print(the shipping invoice) to place his order. He also added a few interesting colors as well as additional equipment.

Prior to this shippment ever arriving, Don discovered that Douglass had circumvented his system and as was stated called Jack and not only threatened physical harm but also legal action. Jack explained his position and that he supported the sYc concept which was to include a Nation wide marketing campaign. This Campaign included drag race sponsorship as well as traditional "print" advertsing.

This is when and where Jack and Don agreed to maintain their Business relationship and for Jack to still remain the exclusive Chicago/Illinois dealer for Yenko Sports Cars Inc.

This agreement was stuck prior to the Douglass Ordered Cars ever hitting the ground. Part of the arrangement was that Jack would not discuss the order procedures with any other dealers.

Jack also remembers a conversation with Dale Berger as the Berger COPO order was built/initiated just ahead of the Douglass order since Douglass had COPOs on the ground and Berger did not.

Berger Did not support the Yenko Dealer Network and justifiably figured that his own Hi-performance market would support the sale of his COPOs while maintaing a price advantage over the sYc dealer network.(this info was provided to me by Jack Douglass).

It seems that the Douglass situation caused Don Yenko and GM to want to cover their tracks with potential Chevy Dealer Franchise infringement headaches as well.

The last bach of Camaros did not sell well for Jack or most of the other Dealers. This per Jack Douglass was primarily due to the fact that insurance for the L72-427 Super Cars became virtually either not affordable or nonexistant in the Chicago Metro area.

Jack remembers that he ended up taking at least a few of His Douglass Yenkos to the local auctions and selling them off to other dealers in Chicago or around the country.

This is not my story, it is Jacks story. It is supported by Tom Dumass former General Manager, an assistant service manager, his son John and many of my local fellow enthusiasts who purchased, drooled over, or raced a Yenko Camaro from Douglass Chevrolet.

The legend and legacy of the Late Great Don Yenko was perpetuated as well as enhanced by Jack Doulglass. (IMO)

**sixtiesmuscle** · #49 10-07-2002, 04:15 PM

Seems to me that emotions & opinions sway some more than the simple FACTS of the situation that existed in 1969. The temptation to rewrite history is great to protect the integrity of the Cannonsberg Yenkos. The undisputed truth of the situation back "in the day", was that:

Don Yenko agreed that Jack Douglass could sell the Copo cars he striped in Hinsdale as official Yenko cars. He set a high price for his authorization, probably equal to what he would have made selling cars shipped to him.

Douglass, as the official, authorized Yenko dealer, sold them to the buying public as Yenkos.

They were, at that time, [and now] Yenko cars.

Whether they are worth more or less than the other Yenkos, only time will tell. That's for any individual, properly informed buyer to determine.
The comparison to Baldwin Motion or Motion prepped cars doesn't apply directly. I'm still waiting for someone to weigh in on the comparison of the Nickey/Bill Thomas similarity to the Yenko/Douglass relationship.

**Stefano** · #50 10-07-2002, 04:48 PM

Mike,
Yes I agree with the Nicky/Thomas scenario, as it is the most similar to this Situation. The Baldwin /Motion, Joel Rosen does not apply IMO.

Tom,
A reply to your question regarding the over the Counter Yenko Stinger Kits. Yes those are 100% Yenko Stinger over the counter kit cars. Yes, they are Yenkos.

No ,they do not have the benefit of having been torn down and blue printed, ordered and invoiced by Yenko Chevrolet but they are by definition (SCCA Sports Car Club of America) a Yenko.

It just happens that it was built by "Joe Roadracer" not
Warren Dernasheck at Yenko Chevrolet, or Dickie Harrell in at his shop,in New Mexico!

They are a unique part of the Yenko Legacy.

The individual who purchased only the parts and not the Yenko VIN does not have a Yenko Stinger.

This also is not a similar situation to the Douglass one, but a very good topic as well.

Marlin,
While our opinions are at different ends of the spectrum on this issue, I would expect that you could understand the use of Douglass Yenko to identify a unique situation in Super Car History.

The simple reason we do not use the similar identifier with other dealers is that Jack Douglass was the only Dealer in the network with this special/unique arrangement.

No one else had it to the best of my knowledge and research.