Brokers, Middlemen, and the whole ugly mess!

mchriscad · #1 03-24-2007, 07:06 AM

I have recently seen a theme of discontent on this website. It seems to revolve around brokers, middlemen, and people trying to make a buck on a car that is not theirs. Don’t get me wrong there are some very respectable brokers out there, but most are in it for the money not the hobby. The two posts I am referring to are:

70 LS6 MALIBU auto/bench Docs. 30,000 Mile Valu ??
1967 chevelle ss black with red interior

There is a common theme here, both individuals did not own the vehicles nor could they answer the hard facts about the cars. I do not know either one of these people and I am sure they are good people, but it is frustrating when you are not dealing with the owner.

A good friend on this site, Howard, and I were both burnt years ago by the same broker. The good news about both instances is that Howard and I became friends because of the mutual shared experiences. The sting of the cars went away and we both learned valuable lessons…..don’t buy cars from people who do not own them. I recently saw Howard’s frustration come out in a post:
More Hype without documentation like so many others lately!

--------------------
Howard

You have to understand that (and I am not putting myself in your league Howard) we get inundated with cars every week. I know my first question when I get a phone call is:
Do you own the car? And 2nd is:
Is it documented?
If you cannot answer either one of those questions the way I want, I am done with the conversation.

This site is not only full of experts, but it is full of some of the wealthiest and biggest collectors in the country. You cannot get away with any form of BS or “broker speak” here.

Here is my recommendation to anyone that is going to post on this site:
1st Have thick skin!
2nd Make sure you have your facts straight before you post, because with this crowd the facts will be straight by the end of the thread.
3rd Don’t try and sell something that you really don’t own or can’t control.

Just my opinion!

**Zedder** · #2 03-24-2007, 07:19 AM

Just curious, but aren't you a dealer? So, does owning the car make that much of a difference when profit is the motive of both...or is it simply that some are just not knowledgeable enough about the cars that they are trying to profit from and whether they own it or not makes little difference??? I wouldn't buy from either a dealer or a broker if I didn't get a knowledgeable response to the questions that I asked.

**rich p** · #3 03-24-2007, 06:19 PM

Wow !! I just went out of Business

They say your a DEALER ?? I never work with DEALERS because of your guys great reputation for telling the TRUTH about the car you are selling..
I dont disagree with you on some of the Brokers out there. I have seen and heard a lot of BS with guys trying to cash in on some Victims.
I could have sold a LOT more cars if I was out to take peoples money.

So are you a DEALER ???

mchriscad · #4 03-24-2007, 06:24 PM

I wouldn't buy from either a dealer or a broker if I didn't get a knowledgeable response to the questions that I asked.

Zedder, well said and that is my point.

And yes I do have my dealers license!

mchriscad · #5 03-24-2007, 06:27 PM

Rich,
I do not know why you are taking personal offense to the post. My point was to say that if you cannot answer questions about the car, then get out of the way. I am sure when you broker a car you do it in a professional manner.

**Rainer** · #6 03-24-2007, 09:42 PM

I think that if you are making negative generalizations about people involved in a particular activity/occupation then you can expect many of them to be offended by your statement.

[ QUOTE ]
Don’t get me wrong there are some very respectable brokers out there, but most are in it for the money not the hobby.

[/ QUOTE ]

**427TJ** · #7 03-24-2007, 10:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think that if you are making negative generalizations about people involved in a particular activity/occupation then you can expect many of them to be offended by your statement.

[ QUOTE ]
Don’t get me wrong there are some very respectable brokers out there, but most are in it for the money not the hobby.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Doesn't sound particularly negative to me. Most guys are in it for the money but it seems that when someone says so people get offended.

Innocent question: Is there anyone out there who brokers cars for free--to anyone, not just a select group of friends?

There are potentially "offensive" things said on this forum which get priased high and low by everybody because of who said it. But if someone who isn't a player says it then the bickering starts.

Instead of being "offended" why not just ignore it and move on? The Japanese have a saying that you can kill something with silence.

70 copo · #8 03-24-2007, 11:12 PM

I brokered several sales for free. Both parts and supercars. IMO...Some of the bigger collectors need a middle man due to the seller often finding out who they are and increasing the price accordingly.

Never lost any sleep over any of it.

mchriscad · #9 03-24-2007, 11:17 PM

Zedder and Rich P. I have my Dealers License. I own two small businesses and neither one have anything to do with the collector car hobby. In Ohio if you conduct more than 5 transactions for the sale of automobiles than you had better have your dealers license. Some people are ok with skipping titles and misrepresent the sale price to avoid taxes, God bless them, but that is not me. I have been very blessed and I am not interested in giving any of it back over a car deal.

I may be the only car dealer that uses a broker to sell his cars. Stefano sells my collection cars simply because he knows more about them then me. His reputation as a broker precedes him and it helps with the sale. I do not have the time to take phone calls all day long from tire kickers. If it doesn’t sell on this site than it is going to be sold through a broker usually. I did not say that I would not buy a car from a broker Rich, I said if I don’t like your answer than I wouldn’t. The ugly mess I was referring to was my nightmare with a broker. I was new to the hobby and got burnt. The broker did not have a pot to pee in or a window to throw it out of. It was $225,000 transaction. Again, shame on me, it was my own fault. Now if you are a broker and I am buying a car you are going to prove to me that you have the financial wherewithal to rectify the transaction. I know that if Stefano calls me on a car that he has found (really stretching now because he would just buy it himself) he would have the ability to buy the car back if something was not as described.

Rainer, I was trying to be specific on the two posts as references. I wasn’t making any blanket statements or generalizations. One guy I give a pass to because he was looking for some info, the other could not answer the first question about a car.

**Rainer** · #10 03-25-2007, 01:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think that if you are making negative generalizations about people involved in a particular activity/occupation then you can expect many of them to be offended by your statement.

[ QUOTE ]
Don’t get me wrong there are some very respectable brokers out there, but most are in it for the money not the hobby.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Doesn't sound particularly negative to me. Most guys are in it for the money but it seems that when someone says so people get offended.

[/ QUOTE ]

mchriscad's statement was making a comparison, noting that some brokers are respectable, but most are in it for the money. Here's the implication of what was stated:

Some brokers: respectable (stated)
Most brokers: not respectable (implied)

Some brokers: not in it for the money (implied)
Most brokers: in it for the money (stated)

I don't think this is a case of reading too much into something. And obviously being seen as not respectable is negative.

For the record: I am not a broker.