Market Value and "Numbers Matching" versus "Original Motor"

[PatrickKrook]

The dreaded restamp discussion seems to be front and center (again) lately. I was at Bloomington Gold recently, looking for a good '67 427 Coupe for a client and encountered one in the Gold Mine for sale area. Had all the awards (Triple Diamond), accolades and bonfides, even owned in the same family from new and the same owner since '79. Factory docs also confirm the car as genuine. To the best of the owner's knowledge, it still retained its "born with" motor. The car was awarded an APPEAR OEM Bloomington Gold. One sticking point- at some point during its judging, it was noted on judging sheets that the stamp pad was not consistent with factory.

This is just one example and a sympathetic one at that. There are many, MANY situations where a restamp is present for as many reasons. Some are seemingly innocuous; others are certainly malevolent.

So, the general question is this, on a Chevrolet what is the market value difference between an unfalsifiable original engine and one that is merely "Numbers Matching"- which would include a "restoration motor" or "restamp" on a car that you otherwise known as genuinely factory correct?

[WILMASBOYL78]

Not sure anyone can answer that in a definitive way...the whole 'numbers' thing began with Corvettes and now the hobby [or sport], depending upon your view, has never been the same.

Re-stamps are re-stamps where ever they live...measure twice and cut once.

-wilma

[SBR]

My 2 cents is that the rarer and more desirable the car, the larger the premium will be for a car that still retains its original stamp pad. A wise one once told me that judging and buying are two different things.

[TimG]

I agree with Steve. If you take a loaded '67 435 with paperwork and good colors and replace the motor, it could be a $75,000 hit.

[MosportGreen66]

I agree with Steve and Tim.

I know of two great '67 L71 coupes that just sold for $160k each. Both had Grenning validated docs and tags but both were restamper engines. One was a Nabor Brother's restoration about 20 years ago, the other was very nice frame off. All real bodies and great parts.

One was Marina Blue/blue the other Elkhart/teal. Get this - both mint tank sheets, with documented pipes and BO wheels (10 real KH wheels too). Both had non-OEM gold and Chapter TF. If these were real engine cars, the price would have been $225k-$250k easily.

[Big Block Bill]

Originally Posted by SBR

My 2 cents is that the rarer and more desirable the car, the larger the premium will be for a car that still retains its original stamp pad. A wise one once told me that judging and buying are two different things.

I agree 100%, judging and buying ARE two different things, but a lot of people don't realize it

Bill

[napa68]

Originally Posted by PatrickKrook

The dreaded restamp discussion seems to be front and center (again) lately. I was at Bloomington Gold recently, looking for a good '67 427 Coupe for a client and encountered one in the Gold Mine for sale area. Had all the awards (Triple Diamond), accolades and bonfides, even owned in the same family from new and the same owner since '79. Factory docs also confirm the car as genuine. To the best of the owner's knowledge, it still retained its "born with" motor. The car was awarded an APPEAR OEM Bloomington Gold. One sticking point- at some point during its judging, it was noted on judging sheets that the stamp pad was not consistent with factory.

This is just one example and a sympathetic one at that. There are many, MANY situations where a restamp is present for as many reasons. Some are seemingly innocuous; others are certainly malevolent.

So, the general question is this, on a Chevrolet what is the market value difference between an unfalsifiable original engine and one that is merely "Numbers Matching"- which would include a "restoration motor" or "restamp" on a car that you otherwise known as genuinely factory correct?

The red one that was in the for sale lot?

[PatrickKrook]

@napa68 That was the one I was citing in this use case, though I didn't want to pick on that car in particular.

[PatrickKrook]

Originally Posted by MosportGreen66

I agree with Steve and Tim.

I know of two great '67 L71 coupes that just sold for $160k each. Both had Grenning validated docs and tags but both were restamper engines. One was a Nabor Brother's restoration about 20 years ago, the other was very nice frame off. All real bodies and great parts.

One was Marina Blue/blue the other Elkhart/teal. Get this - both mint tank sheets, with documented pipes and BO wheels (10 real KH wheels too). Both had non-OEM gold and Chapter TF. If these were real engine cars, the price would have been $225k-$250k easily.

I follow you- so, a car judged #1, but wearing a re-stamp- does that go for #1 "Price Guide Money", or does it take a hit off of that. Or, does a #1 with the factory stamp earn the premium over book?

[Lynn]

For most collectors, a #1 car with a restamp will get discounted significantly to a #1 car with the "born with" engine.

I know it would to me.