Corona Virus Member Discussion

[BJCHEV396]

CNN....627 deaths in Italy past 24 hours.

[Lynn]

I hate to be the one to broach this subject, but at some point we must strike a balance between the cost of social distancing taken to the extreme vs. the cost of a certain percentage of the population getting sick; and yes, even dying.

I keep hearing the talking heads referring to every life as being priceless; and how we must take all the extreme measures even if it means saving one life. Frankly, that is not now, and never has been, reality; not in this Country, not any where in the world.

Before you dismiss me as a heartless bastard, let me give you just ONE example. On average we kill 37,000 (or thereabouts) people in highway accidents every year just in the U. S.. If we truly believed that every life was priceless, and that each life must be saved at all cost, the national speed limit would be around 30 mph, because very few people die in car accidents at that low of a speed. Let’s face it, that isn’t happening. There was enough of an outcry when we were at 55.

Then, you say, what about pedestrian accidents? Even at 30 mph, pedestrians get killed. Right you are. The solution? We build pedestrian bridges over every intersection in the U. S. to save those last few thousand lives. Also, not happening.

At some point we have to decide where to draw these lines. Different States have different needs right now. Some need more drastic measures than others. Just my opinion, but when they shut down all the restaurants in OKC, I believe that went overboard. There needs to be some room for personal choice. Some restaurants around here had already blocked off every other booth or table, to create distancing. Sherri and I went out to eat Tuesday evening after buying her new car. We weren’t within 20 feet of another patron. Currently, at last count, there were 46 known cases in Oklahoma, among almost 4 million residents. We are ALREADY social distancing.

Sadly, it appears the only opinions being espoused to those in charge are from those wanting the most drastic measures, always justified because “every life is priceless.” We need to evaluate the impact of those measures along with considering the consequences of no measures. Strike a balance. Look at Lee’s graphic. Assuming it is 100% accurate (and we really don’t know, because we haven’t been here before, but it seems quite reasonable) the return on investment is HUGE from 0% to 50% reduction, but not nearly as drastic for that next 25%. I don’t know where to draw the line. But I can guarantee you, I don’t want it at 100%.

Here is the kicker: If we plunge the entire WORLD into a depression as bad as the 1930's how many of those “priceless” live going to be lost then? I am just saying look at the REAL big picture. Let’s take reasonable measures, but don’t go overboard.

I mean no disrespect to those of you (or anyone for that matter) that believes the entire Country (and Canada as well, so maybe I should say the entire continent) should go on lock down. I think it is a huge mistake if we do.

[Lee Stewart]

Lynn:

It is not fair to make any comparisons to other stats. And BTW, you picked a miniscule one. How about: Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, including more than 41,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure. And they still sell cigarettes right.

Stop looking at the mortality rate and concentrate on the rate of those people going into the hospital and those going into ICU. If CV-19 overwhelms our health care system, what about all the other people who need to be hospitalized or placed in ICU? Are doctors going to have to choose who lives and who dies?

Having your lifestyle disrupted so abruptly sucks. I understand that. It sucks for all of us. But it's the price we have to pay to get this pandemic stopped in it's tracks right away. We do not want a repeat of the 1918 Spanish Flu. 675,000 Americans died and we had a population that was more than 3X smaller than it is today. If CV-19 duplicated the Spanish Flu we would see well over 2 million people die here in the US.

It's important not to keep asking "when are we getting there?" This is a 1000 mile trip and we just passed mile marker 50.

[Lee Stewart]

Decided to take a short trip to get out of the house - headed for the highway to just cruise. On the way back I suggested to my son we make a stop at Walmart - head over to the meat area - if it's empty - just leave.

So off we went. Got to the meat aisle and again almost everything was sold out. Going to try to make meatloaf using turkey sausage instead of beef. When we were there my son lost it! Some big fat guy was just grabbing everything in site and my son grabbed the sign that said be thoughtful of others - only 2 per item are allowed. And he said in a loud voice; "hey a$$hole . . . can't you read?" Well the guy got all flustered, apologized and put back about 90% of the stuff he took. My son is almost 6' 2' And has this menacing look that he can put on. That's my boy!

[Crush]

Originally Posted by Lynn

I hate to be the one to broach this subject, but at some point we must strike a balance between the cost of social distancing taken to the extreme vs. the cost of a certain percentage of the population getting sick; and yes, even dying.

I keep hearing the talking heads referring to every life as being priceless; and how we must take all the extreme measures even if it means saving one life. Frankly, that is not now, and never has been, reality; not in this Country, not any where in the world.

Before you dismiss me as a heartless bastard, let me give you just ONE example. On average we kill 37,000 (or thereabouts) people in highway accidents every year just in the U. S.. If we truly believed that every life was priceless, and that each life must be saved at all cost, the national speed limit would be around 30 mph, because very few people die in car accidents at that low of a speed. Let’s face it, that isn’t happening. There was enough of an outcry when we were at 55.

Then, you say, what about pedestrian accidents? Even at 30 mph, pedestrians get killed. Right you are. The solution? We build pedestrian bridges over every intersection in the U. S. to save those last few thousand lives. Also, not happening.

At some point we have to decide where to draw these lines. Different States have different needs right now. Some need more drastic measures than others. Just my opinion, but when they shut down all the restaurants in OKC, I believe that went overboard. There needs to be some room for personal choice. Some restaurants around here had already blocked off every other booth or table, to create distancing. Sherri and I went out to eat Tuesday evening after buying her new car. We weren’t within 20 feet of another patron. Currently, at last count, there were 46 known cases in Oklahoma, among almost 4 million residents. We are ALREADY social distancing.

Sadly, it appears the only opinions being espoused to those in charge are from those wanting the most drastic measures, always justified because “every life is priceless.” We need to evaluate the impact of those measures along with considering the consequences of no measures. Strike a balance. Look at Lee’s graphic. Assuming it is 100% accurate (and we really don’t know, because we haven’t been here before, but it seems quite reasonable) the return on investment is HUGE from 0% to 50% reduction, but not nearly as drastic for that next 25%. I don’t know where to draw the line. But I can guarantee you, I don’t want it at 100%.

Here is the kicker: If we plunge the entire WORLD into a depression as bad as the 1930's how many of those “priceless” live going to be lost then? I am just saying look at the REAL big picture. Let’s take reasonable measures, but don’t go overboard.

I mean no disrespect to those of you (or anyone for that matter) that believes the entire Country (and Canada as well, so maybe I should say the entire continent) should go on lock down. I think it is a huge mistake if we do.

I totally agree with this but unfortunately common sense, that’s what your logic is, may be long gone.
I might add that as the hysteria rises people get more and more desperate. I won’t go into detail what that desperation could lead to but it could lead to way more lives lost.

[markinnaples]

For better or worse, I agree with Lynn and Crush. Shutting down an entire society, IMHO, will do more harm than good. I am all for those who are more susceptible or already compromised from a health standpoint to be quarantined, but for the vast majority of population, being smart and not taking any undue risk will allow for the economy to continue and not allow us to plunge into a recession if not a depression. Just my thoughts.

[Lee Stewart]

Originally Posted by markinnaples

For better or worse, I agree with Lynn and Crush. Shutting down an entire society, IMHO, will do more harm than good. I am all for those who are more susceptible or already compromised from a health standpoint to be quarantined, but for the vast majority of population, being smart and not taking any undue risk will allow for the economy to continue and not allow us to plunge into a recession if not a depression. Just my thoughts.

Guess you didn't see this:

[BJCHEV396]

A Chinese official was in Italy and said Italians are not obeying the lockdown and that is why the virus is devastating Italy.You might see lockdown orders in North America.Will we obey it?

[Lee Stewart]

Posted this today at 12:35 AM NM time on another forum.

[Lee Stewart]

Originally Posted by BJCHEV396

A Chinese official was in Italy and said Italians are not obeying the lockdown and that is why the virus is devastating Italy.You might see lockdown orders in North America.Will we obey it?

When hospitals begin turning away all patients (that includes setting up tent style triages in the parking lots) because they are full and people are dying by the thousands maybe then people will take it seriously. Of course by then it will be too late. They will be using garbage trucks to pickup the corpses there will be so many.

How's that for Fear Mongering?

We survived the 1918 Spanish Flu. We survived The Great Depression. We survived WWII. We survived The Great Recession (with the H1N1 epidemic stuck in that time frame). And we will survive The Great Lockdown. And each time we survived we became stronger. Maybe it is time to "thin the herd." You can apply that to any demographic you like.