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  #11  
Old 01-04-2010, 06:00 PM
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Default Re: 69 camaro running in the 10s

I'm pretty sure it's Redline Oil that's been making that O-WT oil that's become popular in Pro Stock. Now, you figure that class has been essentially the same since they initiated the 500 CID/2350 LBS rules in 1982. I really don't even keep track anymore, but what's the current P/S record these days.......6.50-6.60? That means just a little over ONE FULL SECOND reduction in ET over a period of 28 YEARS. That's pretty incredible! They've used the dual Dominator configuration since the beginning, so you figure they really had to beat the bushes to find that one second! Hey Wayne, remember back in the Seventies of hearing the short-lived fad of running Lencos totally dry?!
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Old 01-05-2010, 02:36 AM
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Default Re: 69 camaro running in the 10s

Hi Mark….

I recall running stuff (engines, transmissions, rear axles) low on fluid, so I wouldn’t put it past someone to run a Lenco empty. Don’t imagine since it is a planetary trans, how happy it would be though <g>.

I have some other interesting figures for anyone who cares. Last year I did a whole bunch of work on a drag race special magazine special for Race Engine Technology out of the UK. I talked them into a section on Sportsman Racing. Some of the itsy bitsy facts and figures are startling. My old pal, Mike Pustelny tells me the average front to rear wheel drive conversion Super Stock GT chassis now goes out the door for $125,000 or so, less engine, trans, headers and a few accessories (!), while a custom built recreation of a B029 or L023 Mopar Hemi Cuda or Dart will go out the door for between $125,000 an $175,000! Mike says there are between 450 and 525 man hours necessary to build a state of the art SS/GT FWD conversion car and 550 hours necessary to build a Super Stock A Hemi car. You’re not done yet. Charlie Wescott (the leader of the Warfish bunch) tells me you better bring $65,000 to the plate to bring home a new Super Stock race hemi. I’m sure Ray Barton gets an equal amount for one of his bullets.

A bit closer to home for me, I also spoke to Robin Whitcomb of B-A-M (Oregon) regarding a Stock Eliminator big block Chevy. The Sorenson brothers run out of his shop and have held the A/SA record on and off with a L72 ’69 Camaro. That engine (are you sitting down?) produces 641 HP at the peak with an extremely wide powerband. It’s also fragile when on “kill” according to Robin, so it needs a lot of maintenance. You can buy a near twin to that engine from Whitcomb for a mere $30,000! Robin tells me a more pedestrian engine combination such as a 250 HP 327 Stocker motor will only set you back $17,000 or so.

Moving over to Competition Eliminator, I spoke to Bob Panella Jr. (some of you might remember his cool dad Bob Sr. – he used to run the Panella Trucking Gassers). Anyway, Bob Jr. tells me that a 320 cubic inch, 15-degree, single four barrel wet sump motor costs in the neighborhood of $50,000! Add a dry sump and multiple carbs and the price jumps by another $10,000.

When it comes to Sportsman racing, purses aren’t exactly large either. At Indy (US Nationals), the winner in Stock Eliminator received $2,500. A Super Stock win could garner $3,000 while taking home the Competition Eliminator “Wally” was worth $3,500. In all fairness, contingency awards increase the purse, but the racer is at the mercy of the participating manufacturer as to when (or now it seems, if) he or she is paid. If you spun the clock back twenty-five to thirty years, I think you’d find the purses were proportionately stronger (by a country mile). We used to always figure if we won a National Event and collected all of the contingencies, we could just about cover the cost of the racecar.

Figured this info might prove interesting to some. And I’m sorry to the original poster – we got a way off track!

Wayne Scraba

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Old 01-05-2010, 02:38 AM
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Default Re: 69 camaro running in the 10s

[ QUOTE ]
Hey Wayne, Thanks for all the great articles of the years! I learned alot from you. Loved the 69 Camaro!

and Kris, here is our 69 Camaro making a few runs. It was a pump gas 468 with 3.73s and 28 x12.50 ET Streets and no traction bars (thanks again Wayne!) PM me if you have any questions.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...0173449938518#


Andrew



[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the comps man. You sure do have a bad boy '69! And wow, I suspect you're hardly spinning it over given the back gear (soo.....when are you really gonna cut it loose <g>?)

Take care bud!

Wayne Scraba
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  #14  
Old 01-05-2010, 02:48 AM
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markjohnson markjohnson is offline
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Default Re: 69 camaro running in the 10s

Hearin' ya loud and clear, Wayne. I recently purchased a book about managing personal finances and how to make wise investments, but for the life of me........I just can't find the chapter on Drag Racing.
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  #15  
Old 01-05-2010, 03:46 AM
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Default Re: 69 camaro running in the 10s

Well first off,happy new year to all,and Thank you everyone who responded,it looks like i just got decades of information in one thread,and i thank you so much,Im up here in the sticks of alaska,racing on an old abandoned air strip,so i dont want to get to crazy,i just want to go fast and give a good show for the crowd that shows up there about 16 of us racing i took third last year with my 70 ls5 4 sp chevelle with the origenal born with motor,i dont want to run that motor again,i would hate to break it, so ive got this 69 camaro and this new zl1 block,and now that the trucking season is over, i got time to get started on this project,i think i like the idea of putting a stroker asy in the new block with the 077 heads,and i just love racing 4speeds im confused on the gear ratio,im sure glad i didnt by 456 gears im starting to think 411or 373 like andrews car would be a better option,i also have a line on a used zz502,but i sure like the idea of the zl1 block,for now im gonna reread all these post and thank you wayne and everybody for all the great info ,happy new year kris...
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Old 01-05-2010, 05:33 AM
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Default Re: 69 camaro running in the 10s

Happy New Year to you too Kris. Hey, I took the liberty of crunching some numbers for you (and that’s all drag racing boils down to – plenty of numbers). With a 3850 pound Chevelle (a guesstimate with you in it, fuel and a iron rat motor…but a rag might be heavier I think), it will take approximately 585-590 horsepower to run 125 MPH and change in the quarter mile. If you can run a buck and a quarter, then I’m pretty sure you’ll get your magical ten-second time slip.

To move that Chevelle, you’ll need some gear. It’s a big car with a big frontal area and more than likely will carry a lot more weight than a 1969 Camaro. Torque will be your friend too. The combo I came up with goes something like this:

590 HP (at roughly 6,500 RPM) 502
Turbo 400 (stock 2.48; 1.48; 1.00:1 gears)
10-inch converter (3200 RPM or so stall speed)
3850 pounds ready to race
4.56:1 rear axle
10X28-inch tire (slick or drag radial)


This should give you something like a 10.90-something ET with a trap speed in the 126 MPH range, provided everything is dialed in, the weather cooperates, you use good fuel and the planets are aligned. Usually a shift point 10% or so over peak is what you’ll find necessary (I didn’t take the time to plot RPM drops….that’s really what determines it).

A stick can do the job, but I don’t know if I’d be too willing to play that game with a big car and big power. If you decide to go with a stick, keep in mind you’ll probably end up side-stepping the clutch at big RPM numbers to make it all work. That usually tears stuff up,uhm, rather quickly, especially when you’re in this territory.

I might catch some flak on this, but I’m no fan of aluminum blocks. If you look around, you’ll find that most of the top shelf big power stock based or style engines in North America still use good old fashioned iron blocks (NASCAR, NHRA Pro Stock, etc.). Its because aluminum doesn't make heat (heat makes power), some of them move around a lot (dimensionally), they tend to have smaller bore sizes than say something like a 502 (a big bore size unshrouds the valves a lot on a rat motor). And for the price of an aluminum block, you can buy a pretty fancy big bore iron rat motor block. And don’t confuse the use of aluminum blocks in Top Fuel and Funny Car (and maybe some mountain motor classes) with the above either. The big reason they use aluminum is because they can fix ‘em when they put a window in it (plus they can change sleeves at the track).

Bottom line here is, the cubes from the 502 will work a whole bunch better than a 427. I’d send the heads to someone competent, get hooked up with a good (and I mean Good) cam designer like Harold Brookshire, piece together a decent oiling system and in the words of my late (but esteemed and sorely missed) pal and mentor, Steve Collison, “let the big dog eat”!

Catch ya’ later man…


Wayne Scraba
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  #17  
Old 01-05-2010, 05:43 AM
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Default Re: 69 camaro running in the 10s

Hey Kris...My bad...I should have re-read your question instead of rushing in.

If you go with the Camaro, you can probably get away with a bit less grunt and gear. Weigh the thing though <g>. You could be surprised. I've witnessed more than a few that proved a wee bit heavier stock than their owners anticipated. In any case, cubes and torque are your friends!

Wayne Scraba
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  #18  
Old 01-05-2010, 06:39 AM
Berger RS Copo Berger RS Copo is offline
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Default Re: 69 camaro running in the 10s

Hi Kris, the combo I run in my 69 Camaro might be of interest to you. Stock eliminator type suspension,9-inch tires,unported iron chevy heads. Very low 10's in average conditions. Let me know if I can help! Dana
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  #19  
Old 01-05-2010, 07:59 AM
Salvatore Salvatore is offline
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Default Re: 69 camaro running in the 10s

Good deal Dana! Nothing real fancy!
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  #20  
Old 01-05-2010, 08:09 AM
mfchassisworks mfchassisworks is offline
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Default Re: 69 camaro running in the 10s

Kris, do they have 60 ft clocks where you race? With it not being an actual drag strip , what is traction like, not just at the starting line but overall?

We ran the car with very little gear due to lots of NOS. It would hook with a fogger and a Big Shot plate off the line, with no timing computer. So on the motor it had no traction issue at all and made for a great street car. On the video you can hear the engine get pulled down going through the gears.

Send Ryan a PM regarding the ZL1 aluminum block, he building one right now and is very knowledgeable.

Andrew
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