ZL1 #9 Barrett Jackson - Where's Waldo

[FTC]

Interesting thread. I have a few questions, that basically ask for opinions on this whole subject. I was always under the impression that a "re-body" meant (on 1st gen Camaros for example), that the vin tag, and cowl tag was removed and installed on another, better condition body, for restoration purposes. I imagine even the partial VINs on the cowl and behind the heater are changed as well.

This of course has been discussed, debating the legality of it, because most states prohibit "any" tampering with VINs on any vehicle.... (stolen cars and parts worries).

Now, reading this thread, it seems that others consider a re-body any time even "most" of the body shell is used. But where is the line drawn?

What if you have a valuable COPO involved in a major crash, say t boned, or high speed crash into a pole sideways, or roll over crash. Rocker panels, floor, A pillars, roof, rear quarters,..etc,...all crushed beyond repair? Now, instead of gathering aftermarket parts, or paying through the roof for NOS parts, if you could find them,....you find a really nice Camaro with solid floors, rockers, quarters,.....etc,...and you decide to use all of this donor car, except for the firewall and cowl? What's the difference between removing all those original panels one by one and replacing everything separately, to the existing firewall, or attaching all those part complete in car form, to the existing firewall?

[Z282NV]

Originally Posted by FTC

Interesting thread. I have a few questions, that basically ask for opinions on this whole subject. I was always under the impression that a "re-body" meant (on 1st gen Camaros for example), that the vin tag, and cowl tag was removed and installed on another, better condition body, for restoration purposes. I imagine even the partial VINs on the cowl and behind the heater are changed as well.

This of course has been discussed, debating the legality of it, because most states prohibit "any" tampering with VINs on any vehicle.... (stolen cars and parts worries).

Now, reading this thread, it seems that others consider a re-body any time even "most" of the body shell is used. But where is the line drawn?

What if you have a valuable COPO involved in a major crash, say t boned, or high speed crash into a pole sideways, or roll over crash. Rocker panels, floor, A pillars, roof, rear quarters,..etc,...all crushed beyond repair? Now, instead of gathering aftermarket parts, or paying through the roof for NOS parts, if you could find them,....you find a really nice Camaro with solid floors, rockers, quarters,.....etc,...and you decide to use all of this donor car, except for the firewall and cowl? What's the difference between removing all those original panels one by one and replacing everything separately, to the existing firewall, or attaching all those part complete in car form, to the existing firewall?

I don't know why people get fixated on "where is the line". The line for you or the line for me maybe at different spots. The important thing is disclosure for what was truely done to car in it's restoration. No half baked words like a GM body was used. Just spill the beans and be honest. Honesty is what builds reputations.

The great thing about this site is the knowledge people have in recognizing fakes. If I ever had the money to buy a high end car rest assure I would be sending a few PM's to a few people here if they willing to help me.

[Pro Stock John]

Frank I agree, I'd assume some guys on here know about the restoration of this car and could elaborate. I assume by the comments I've read that another body was used. I know of other cars are are rebodies.

[FTC]

Originally Posted by Z282NV

I don't know why people get fixated on "where is the line". The line for you or the line for me maybe at different spots. The important thing is disclosure for what was truely done to car in it's restoration. No half baked words like a GM body was used. Just spill the beans and be honest. Honesty is what builds reputations.

The great thing about this site is the knowledge people have in recognizing fakes. If I ever had the money to buy a high end car rest assure I would be sending a few PM's to a few people here if they willing to help me.

Originally Posted by Pro Stock John

Frank I agree, I'd assume some guys on here know about the restoration of this car and could elaborate. I assume by the comments I've read that another body was used. I know of other cars are are rebodies.

I'd hardly call myself "fixated" on it but, never the less, my "line" so to speak is, I lean toward being more "ok" with a body swap if ...

1. Indeed all or most of the parts would need replacing with new or used parts anyway, (and a factory built body is often built better than a body shop built body)...

and 2. I'd prefer the original firewall and dash/cowl sections be transferred to the donor body, maybe it's just me but separating the VIN and cowl tags from the original and installing on another body, meaning two cars and two VINs and cowl tags are being tampered with,..just screams crooked, deceiving and/or illegal to me, whether it's disclosed or not.

[Big Block Bill]

" I'd prefer the original firewall and dash/cowl sections be transferred to the donor body, maybe it's just me but separating the VIN and cowl tags from the original and installing on another body, meaning two cars and two VINs and cowl tags are being tampered with,..just screams crooked, deceiving and/or illegal to me, whether it's disclosed or not.

And this is not crooked? No, it's illegal and a federal crime. Bill

[FTC]

Originally Posted by Big Block Bill

" I'd prefer the original firewall and dash/cowl sections be transferred to the donor body, maybe it's just me but separating the VIN and cowl tags from the original and installing on another body, meaning two cars and two VINs and cowl tags are being tampered with,..just screams crooked, deceiving and/or illegal to me, whether it's disclosed or not.

And this is not crooked? No, it's illegal and a federal crime. Bill

From what I gather from your reply, you are stating whether someone removes two sets on VIN tags and cowl tags and installs the COPO ones on the donor, or someone removes the entire firewall and cowl/dash section and transfers it to a donor, they are both illegal and a federal crime? Then why is this story about #9 COPO being debated about, and the only thing being discussed is whether or not the re-body is being disclosed to the potential buyers, and how the wording is shady,.......shouldn't the crime be what's being discussed?

[Big Block Bill]

Being a licensed Rebuilder and Parts Recycler in the State of Illinois for the last 37 years, it is my understanding that taking vin tags and or sections of a vehicles body containing vin tags and installing them on another body is Illegal and a federal crime, but I am no lawyer so to get a true read on the subject someone with a law degree will have to respond to this. I am sure there are a few lawyers in our Yenko.net family so I hope one will give us their professional opinion on the matter to set the record straight. Bill

[Rumbleguts396]

I could be wrong, I believe it may be illegal to simply be in possession of a loose Vin tag in some states.

[RichSchmidt]

A few years back there was someone selling all the critical parts to build a COPO car. The seller was selling the entire firewall cut at the toe boards and A-pillars with title for 10 grand and the numbers matching block for another 10 grand. He had the critical numbers covered up so the car couldn't be black listed in the future. My guess is that the car has been resurrected by now.

[1crossram]

There is what is personally acceptable, as everyone has their own line in the sand and budget. For those of us that need to cross a border into another country like Canada from the USA where the vehicle needs to be exported from the States then imported into Canada (and duty and taxes paid), the line is much clearer. I have driven 6 hours one way, found the car to be rebodied, and drove home. Despite how the vehicle might look or cost, the decision is made by my inability to export the car due to customs regulations.