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  #31  
Old 01-04-2012, 10:33 PM
Stuart Adams Stuart Adams is offline
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Default Re: ZL1 #9 Barrett Jackson - Where's Waldo

The mission statement is for the promotion and preservation of the super cars. Great site and a wealth of info.

I'm sure there are a lot of ghosts in closets.

The word rebody sucks, IMO.

Beautiful car, hope both parties involved are happy when it sells. That would be fantastic.
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  #32  
Old 01-05-2012, 03:33 AM
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Steve Shauger Steve Shauger is offline
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Default Re: ZL1 #9 Barrett Jackson - Where's Waldo

A point I would like make is not many cars are untouched survivors. I would estimate survivors account for less than 1%. The remaining 99% are cars restored to various degrees. A concours restoration on a car that is severely damaged from an accident, modifications or the elements is a huge task. It takes skilled craftsmen to resurrect these cars from the ashes. Simply using a donor body and grafting in VIN’s from the original car (which I define as a rebody), is the easy way out and obviously should be a last resort. What is clear in this discussion is that if you are purchasing a car that has been restored you need a detailed portfolio with pics of each step and phase in the process showing what has been done. In the example we have been discussing a full upfront disclosure by the seller would have prevented the 5 pages of posts.

I guess I like restorations the old fashion way, with skilled craftsmen resurrecting these cars, while maintaining as much original integrity as possible. There are no shortcuts when correctly restoring a car. And kudos to the restorers that have the ability, knowledge and skills to bring these cars back to life. There are many fine examples that are just breathtaking.
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  #33  
Old 01-05-2012, 03:40 AM
Stuart Adams Stuart Adams is offline
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Default Re: ZL1 #9 Barrett Jackson - Where's Waldo

Well said Steve.
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  #34  
Old 01-05-2012, 03:45 PM
Steven J Steven J is offline
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Default Re: ZL1 #9 Barrett Jackson - Where's Waldo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fast67VelleN2O</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> when in reality the purchaser (if he/she were upset) should have done their homework. </div></div>

The seller has the responsibility to write an accurate, honest description of the car. Yes, the buyer should do some research in this greedy industry of muscle car fraud, but you can't just put it on the shoulders of the buyer to determine the legitimacy of the car.

Regarding the car in question, just what parts, aside from VIN and paperwork, are truly original to the car ???
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  #35  
Old 01-05-2012, 08:23 PM
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Default Re: ZL1 #9 Barrett Jackson - Where's Waldo

I agree with the comments of Steve S. The problem is that so many of these cars have been restored without proper photo documentation - so what are we left to do? That's why I get focused on documenting previous owners, old photos, title history, etc. Either a good set of resto photos, or a contact list of old owners (or both) are needed to properly document a previously restored car - IMO.
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  #36  
Old 01-06-2012, 02:37 AM
Big Block Bill Big Block Bill is online now
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Default Re: ZL1 #9 Barrett Jackson - Where's Waldo

Well said Charley,

I think: &quot;The ZL1 this thread is about so far is not being disclosed as a rebody yet. George hasn't told us yet how he is going to disclose it. You might all just have to come to Barrett-Jackson to find out.&quot; ends this discussion. Lets all just move on to a new topic (car) worth discussing.

Thank You,
Bill
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  #37  
Old 01-06-2012, 03:01 AM
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Default Re: ZL1 #9 Barrett Jackson - Where's Waldo

Wow, tuff crowd. I don't know George but some of you really seem to have it in for him. I still stand by my first post in this thread. George made it quite clear that he used another body on this car due to its race history. Don't think George has to do anything to his listing. If you are a potential buyer give him a call if you are not sure if it is a rebody!
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  #38  
Old 01-06-2012, 03:05 AM
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Default Re: ZL1 #9 Barrett Jackson - Where's Waldo

I like Howie's approach...

No Questions answered on this site.
You have questions call me!

So, now that's cleared up...let's start a new thread about Tibor or Cumby...I don't care what we talk about...as long as we have fun [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/naughty.gif[/img]
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  #39  
Old 01-06-2012, 03:27 AM
olredalert olredalert is offline
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Default Re: ZL1 #9 Barrett Jackson - Where's Waldo

----Sam,,, I agree with your assessment. I do know George and have refrained from striking back at a few comments made here. George is an ethical person. I dont know anyone any more ethical. He will disclose any and all info that he has knowledge of to anyone. How am I sure enough of this statement to make it??? I know the man!

----I havent seen one poster here that has made a disparaging comment that I feel is a potential buyer, but I admit that maybe I missed a real customer in the middle here somewhere.

----Im not sure why anyone has a duty to tell someone else thats either unable or unwilling to buy a certain car anything about the vehicle unless they are doing research for a qualified buyer. With that said Ill return to just reading this relatively deplorable thread as confrontation doesnt make my day......Bill S
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  #40  
Old 01-06-2012, 04:14 AM
quick-bowtie quick-bowtie is offline
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Default Re: ZL1 #9 Barrett Jackson - Where's Waldo

I wasn't bashing George or the car at all it makes no difference to me how he sell's his car.

I was just giving my opinion on the description.. basically saying Id think twice about it. And yes a Lawyer would tear that description to shreds &quot;IF&quot; the buyer didnt know about the car when he purchased it. You can say buyer beware or what ever else you want but that doesn't mean anything when a car is knowingly misrepresented and that would be pretty easy to prove in this case going by the description on Barretts website.

Im sure George will be out with his car and answer any and all questions about it and even have a sign that says something out being rebodied but what is read on stage or whats in the catalog is what matters if something bad ever came of it. All the buyer has to say is I didnt see any sign by the car?? I was going by the description and what was told to me on the block. Your decription is what you sign your name to twice once on your window card and then again on your contract, thats what is binding not some board you put in front of your car.

Has anyone looked at a Barrett-Jackson contract in the last 2-3 years? You pretty much sign your life away with your description and the boxes you check now. Notice how far fewer cars say numbers matching now? Notice how alot descriptions have wording that would have normally been left out if years past? Most auction companys are really starting to try to look out for the buyers now. &quot;CLEAR TRANSPARENCY&quot; is the word they use I believe.

If you have a &quot;REAL&quot; SS car with no documentation they want to announce it as an UNDOCUMENTED car now.

If you have a High Performance Car (L78, LS6 etc..) with no documentation they want to announce if as an UNDOCUMENTED Option.

If you check NUMBERS MATCHING on the consignment form and it turns out its not.. you buy your car back and pay the buyers and sellers fees.

Barrett-Jackson has stepped up in the last few years and are trying to watch out for B.S. cars, sure alot still get through but what you write and sign on the description and contracts can definately come back to bite you. There have been a few deals un-done in the past few years.

If Barrett-Jackson or the Rep. George is dealing with knows the car is a rebody and they are fine with his wording of disclosure in the description I'd definately get something in writing from them. Id rather see the word re-bodied in the description and the fancy fluff wording on a board in front of the car.

I would say 75% of the cars sold at auction are sold based on the description with the buyer never talking to the owner and alot are impluse buys with buyers having no intention of buying a certain car before it came on the block or even looking at it before hand. Im sure its a little different when your talking hundreds of thousands of dollars but either way those are odds I wouldn't want to take.

I was just trying to potentially save George some grief down the road.. Next time I'll keep quiet.
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