Survivor ?????

[Salvatore]

I agree with you guys but you know as well as I do that as time goes on the rules get more and more lax! Just like letting your kids stay out later and later on the weekends. Pretty soon they are coming in at 2 in the morning A "survivor" means to me that it survived! There are less and less of these cars out there so the rules have to become more lax for any participation. I am upset that the second owner of my nova thought there was a knock in the motor and took it apart. He told me that he found nothing but carbon from sitting. Maybe should have taken it down the California free way for a few miles before taking the motor out. What a dope!

[HiHorse]

I can see why a lot of cars get restored, there is a lot of influence/pressure at the shows for mint cars. I for one can appreciate a car that has not been restored. I have left my '69 435HP vette unrestored on purpose and when I take it to shows people ask when the car will receive the restoration it deserves. I've also been told to sell the car to someone that will put money into it. I am the lone ranger and you need thick skin.

[1969l78]

They are only original once, and to me I would rather have a survior-unrestored car then one that was taken apart and only god knows what was really done with it!!!!!! Survivor car's rock!!!!!! And survivor novas are even better.

[TLucas]

The car shall have original paint(75%) and no clear coat. Paint repairs are OK if they are minimal such as wheel lip rust. Original drivetrain is not negotiable. Items such as shocks that are not vin'd to the car may be replaced with NOS or period correct used. This is my personal expectation. When I'm confused I defer to Brian Henderson, Frane Arone, Steve Shauger, and I love bugging Charlie(I've made room for the 70rs in my building). If I can get these guys to agree I know its safe. Any survivor yenkos out there?

[Jacsey 70Z]

I agree, you can even take cleaning a Survivor car to far, just depend on the degree of car you start with.
Mine was an original owner car and very much unmolested, I wanted a Survivor car I could start and even drive. So I was going to clean as much as I could disassembling as little as possible, I didn't want wrench marks and wanted the car to remain true.
Wanting to car to be drivable I knew things like exhaust, plug wires, battery, heater hoses had to be changed, I had no choice.
I believe there should be a percentage or points (Like Steve's Vintage class) for these cars so mine and others has a place, and a car like Charlie's also can show at the percentage it is.
Still think should have original panels and paint, No detailing as far as paint all driveline and numbers, interior and things like hoses, tires, belts, are all bonus.
When you see a true Survivor car you can tell from a 100 feet away, or maybe that's just me, but give me one any day.

[x Baldwin Motion]

[ QUOTE ]
.......and when I take it to shows "people ask when the car will receive the restoration it deserves" . I've also been told to sell the car to someone that will put money into it. I am the lone ranger and you need thick skin.

[/ QUOTE ]

those people don't "get it"

[TLucas]

Correction: "Frank" Arone sorry for the misspell.

[napa68]

I am probably going to bring on some criticism, but, here it goes. IMO you have to recognize original cars in a variety of levels due to the fact no one can control what has happened until now. In the example of the 20k 70 Z28, if the car was in some type of fender bender, are you then going to write off the engine compartment, chassis, and interior for great examples of originality? If you narrow the recognition so far, you are just promoting restoration rather than preservation. Yes, cars need to recognized at different levels due to the amount of originality. As far as the "cleaning" of an original car, I think the discussion is very subjective. If intense cleaning of an engine compartment or chassis is considered "too much or too far", do we then not buff out and detail original paint?
Bloomington Gold and the NCRS have done something that had not been done before. They recognize and promote the preservation of cars that have "areas" of originality, not just the whole car. So many good original cars found their way into resto shops years ago due to the demand for correct cars rather than originals. Have a second thought before you hammer on Bloomington. After all, you have to start somewhere. I fear this thread is going to go too far.
Tim

[Jacsey 70Z]

I was told at Vettefest, "at least you could of cleaned up all the rust"!!

[Salvatore]

Tim, In all due respect....I don't think musclecar people think like Vette people!