Rick Treworgy Muscle Car Auction Jan 2021

[olredalert]

Originally Posted by LT1vette

You got the cart in front of the horse again.... sitting at home in Michigan freezing your azz off.
I've been there 3 times and saw the car all three times. I spent some time looking at the one time. I spent all my time on Lt1's, but some of the stuff goes hand in hand. I did not see ANYTHING that jumped out saying it was "a built" car. I still think it was the "drug" car.
But as I said in another post... How did they keep track of these cars? Duntov was sliding them out the back door to Greenwood, Penske, Garner etc, building the engines "on the sly". Who knows, we all thought there were ONLY two (2)!!

Hell, twenty years ago you couldn't find a set of BB aluminum heads. Now just google them and fleabay has 3-4 + sets for sale all the time.

I'd still take a 70-72 ZR2 all day and run your BB car... Been there done that!!

----I didn't think I would have to apologize for living in Michigan, but sorry, I guess. I shouldn't have said I "probably" know that the yellow car was bought thru an IRS auction. I know that car and a bunch of it's history really well. I know the the current owner, I know the former owner that unearthed the car and the original motor. As well, I know, very well, the shop in Fla that took care of the car for the owner who got busted and lost the car
----I guess it's at least remotely possible that a former owner of this blue clone also got caught up with an IRS problem and also went up for auction. Anything can happen.......Bill S

[68camaroz28]

Originally Posted by flyingn

and a low price on a very nice Z16. Odd. That Z16 should have gone way higher. The 69 Judge had all kinds of wrong with it and it got a big number

I agree with Frank that the Z16 was very fairly purchased compared to so many other cars that went for large sums. I’ve been there twice and many cars were not top shelf restorations.

[GearheadSS]

Crazy prices. I was there in 2019 and looked at all of these cars. 69 Judge is my favorite car so I spent a lot of time checking it out. There was absolutely nothing that screamed $180k+ for that car. Low option car that didn't really blow me away.

$117k for the 2002 ZL1 seems crazy to me too. Especially for an automatic.

[Billohio]

I remember seeing the McDorman 2002 ZL1 selling for 97.500 in 2010. They fired that up and you could hear it over everything across the parking lot.

[Wayne Ellwood]

Originally Posted by LT1vette

Definitely something fishy going on!!!!
Prices are out of reasoning. Some cars getting great $$, Camaros, that are hardly considered collectable. Corvettes not getting even what would be considered a starting bid at Barrett Jackson.
When is an L89 worth more than a ZL1?
Were than any guys from the website there on the Saturday that can comment?

So....LT1Vette put me on to this thread. He was looking for some more info on the number of Corvette ZL1s and some of the background. He mentioned that there had been a large number of replies but I'm not finding them. It's probably easier just to post a reply here and see what happens. In the Corvette world there are a couple "sources" that are generally taken as being "gospel"

The first is Karl Ludvigsen and his book "Corvette: America's Star-Spangled Sports Car." He cites two ZL1 Corvettes as leaving the factor with "production paperwork". The yellow car now owned by Roger Judski is accepted as being one.....it has a long and detail provenance. The second car is a matter of some uncertainty. Many people have claimed that it is the white Corvette that was passed (most recently) from Otis Chandler to Kevin Suydam (WA). This is not universally accepted. However, in fairness, I must say that, at this time, there is no other claimant that gathif free of debate.

There are a number of other Corvettes that are presented as factory original ZL1 vehicles. The Treworgy (blue) car is one. But it generally agreed amongst the people I know that it is not. There is the orange automatic drag car sold from John Maher to Bruce Perrone. It has a good story but the NCRS will not judge the car....last I heard. Another car that is not currently around was the actual ZL1 mule. Then there are several replicas (of varying quality) represented as a ZL1 by the owner but generally dismissed by the Corvette community.

Now.... another authority on the ZL1 engine is Ken Kayser who began working at the Tonawanda engine plant in Rochester as his first job with GM. ken has a pretty good library and his own memories to serve as the basis for the many articles that he writes. Ken wrote a rather extensive and technical book on his life in GM. He provides articles to VETTE VUES on a regular basis.

One such article dealt with Corvette Big Blocks. In this article, there are some gems hidden among the wide range of engines he covered. It deals with a series of ZL1 engines sent to the assembly plant to update some L88 cars to ZL1 status. These cars were never sold and, as it turns out, the assembly plant was instructed to restore the L88 cars to their original format and send the engines back to Tonawanda. It seems that this didn't happen and that a number of cars may have been sent to Warren (MI) to be used as engineering cars.

I'll stop this thread right here. Ken is looking to go back over his work and do a new series of stories attempting to isolate these cars/engines and to put some more meat on the bones.

I've scanned the story that Ken had printed in VETTE VUES and can email to folks interested in reading it. Email me ...via regular email.... at [email protected]

Since the article dealt with a large number of different experiences, I've highlighted the points that are relevant to the ZL1 story in yellow highlighter. But you still have to go slow and read carefully. Don't jump to conclusions.

Ken's next stories in VETTE VUES will attempt to bring some light to the story.

[bergy]

Interesting. I read Ken’s bio that was in with the ZL1 paperwork at the Musclecar City auction. I believe the it stated that Ken was a GMI student at the Tonawanda engine plant (which is located in Tonawanda - not Rochester) starting in 1968. I was also a GMI student sponsored, for part of my curriculum, out of the Tonawanda complex. I’m a little older than Ken, but we should have crossed paths at Tonawanda. We all met in John Hamacher’s office occasionally. Do you know what Ken’s job(s) were at Tonawanda during the 70s? Just wondering how, as a student, he had “hands on” knowledge of the ZL1 program. Wondering also why Ken feels that “it seems that this didn’t happen” (ZL1 engines weren’t returned to Tonawanda).
I'm aware of Ken's assignments later in his career - just focusing on the ZL1 production period when Ken was only at the plant 1/2 of the time, and even then as a co-op student.