Michelin Quality Control

[Lynn]

Any guys here in the tire business?

I have used Michelin tires on daily drivers for over 50 years. I have used them on everything from a DD Opel Manta back in the 70s to high performance BMWs and even my 1949 Studebaker farm truck (the sizes for a Chevy 3500 HD fit perfectly).

I have always been impressed with quality. I used to own an auto repair shop, before going to law school in the 80s. I have my own hobby shop now, and recently picked up a made in U.S.A. Ranger tire balancer and rim clamp tire machine. I had not planned on getting this equipment, but ran across a deal too good to pass up. Besides, it was kind of a hassle to order tires from Tire Rack, take the tires and wheels off of whatever vehicle I was replacing tires on, throwing them in the back of my El Camino and taking them to a local shop to be mounted and balanced.

After getting my balancer hooked up and calibrated, I balanced the tires on my son’s 07 Suburban. He had just had four Michelins installed a few months ago but was complaining about vibration at highway speeds. EVERY one of the four tires was at least a full ounce out of balance.

To the point of my post. Two of his almost new Michelin tires are significantly out of round. The factory allow wheels are perfectly straight. Of course I put the two best (round) tires on front. It drives significantly smoother. I did not put a dial indicator on, but I have checked many tires for out of round in the past, and my “memory meter” would say about .060” at the very least.

So, thought I would check the balance on my 04 Yukon XL Denali. Again, new Michelins. This time THREE of the four are out of round. Again, the factory alloy wheels are perfectly straight.

1. Has Michelin quality control gotten this bad? Back in the day, I was always impressed with how perfectly round the Michelins were. I have also been impressed with Continental for roundness. Never saw a “brand X” tire that was very round, other than some really nice 13 inch tires I put on my Opel GT. They were made in Taiwan, and are very close to being perfectly round.

2. Is there a brand that has better quality control? I don’t think I have Continentals on any of my cars right now (may have some on the front of an old Bimmer, but would have to check).

I am getting ready to buy tires for Sherri’s 2019 Ioniq Plug in Hybrid. It came with Michelin Energy Saver in 205 55 16. The original tires have 60k miles on them and will go another 5 or 10k. I balanced them a few weeks ago (for the first time) and they did not need much weight. Also, much more round than the other Michelins I have checked lately. They were obviously manufactured a few years ago, not like the ones my son and I bought in the last year.

[Too Many Projects]

Have you checked the sidewall of the egg tires to see where they are made ? I wouldn't be surprised if Michelin and succumbed to the price pressure of sending their products to china.
Tire Rack isn't owned by tire rack anymore either, but you probably knew that. They "merged" a couple years ago but I think Discount Tire has more say in the running. I've bought tires from both in the past and my last set of snow tires from "them" from the tire rack website, because I get a $10/tire discount to drive 35 miles and pick them up rather than use the free shipping.

[JRSully]

I too have been a devoted Michelin customer, always "paid up for good tires". Honestly, I never even thought about a tire being "out of round". Out of balance.? I guess that depends on who's working the machine and paying attention at the tire store, if you don't own a tire machine you are at their mercy. I normally buy my Michelin tires at Costco, usually a good deal when they are on sale, free nitrogen fill anytime, free rotation, free repair. Haven't had any issues that I can see, but would love to have a tire machine to mess around with...

[napa68]

Within the last 9 months, I installed a set of Michelin's on a 2000 Chevy 1500 truck I sold. They were 265/75R-16's and I thought they were excellent. I don't think I used anymore than 2.5oz total weight on each. They were smooth and spot on for runout. I cannot say that for BFG's anymore.

Tire Rack will replace the tire(s) with little or no hassle. I had a similar problem with some Continental's I bought for my personal GMC Denali

[67since67]

You made me look Lynn!

Last April I bought 275/50R22 DefenderLTXM?S summer tires for my DD Silverado 1500. One at 1/2 oz, 2 at 1oz and one at 1.5oz. Superior ride/quiet to the OEM GY's that are back on for winter. Made in USA.

In December I bought LT265/60R 20 Defender LTX M/S load range E for the 2500 HD. 2 at 2 1/2 oz, one at 4 oz and one 5 1/2 oz. Only drove it a couple miles since but noticeable ride/quiet over the OEM GY's.

Maybe larger sizes beget more balance weight??

My second generation old school tire/alignment shop is a Tire Rack approved installer and delivers directly there. They would let me know if there were issues with new tires. I've gotten calls regarding Coker repro stuff.

German cars, one came with Continentals that I replaced at 26K because I couldn't take the noise!

Others including the last Audi came with Michelin Pilot Sport in rubber band sizes. Never an issue. - Bill W

[Lynn]

Thanks for the input. To be clear, I did not have issues balancing any of them.

They are just more out of round than I am used to seeing from Michelin tires.

I balanced the tires on Mom's 09 Buick today; 6 month old Michelins installed at Discount tire, and all were out of balance. Mom died on the 17th after a long term battle with COPD and dementia. The family gave her car to my sister in law, but she doesn't want to drive it, so I am helping her sell it, and then her Subaru, so she can upgrade a little bit.

Three of the four tires on Mom's car were more out of round than I like to see. Put the best two on the front, and it drives fine at 80 mph and below.

Maybe I am just being too picky. But I know it is possible to make a round tire, as shown by the tires on Sherri's car; even with 60k miles they are still round.

Need to check the tires and wheel on my 83 745i. Continentals in front and Bridgestone in rear.

I knew TR and DT had merged. I haven't noticed any change in customer service at TR.

Michelin owns BF Goodrich, but I don't know if they have made any changes to the manufacturing process. I do know this: if you have any of the BFG LT tires on a truck or a big SUV, you need to get them off now. Do an internet search.

[Big Block Bill]

Originally Posted by Lynn

Any guys here in the tire business?

I have used Michelin tires on daily drivers for over 50 years. I have used them on everything from a DD Opel Manta back in the 70s to high performance BMWs and even my 1949 Studebaker farm truck (the sizes for a Chevy 3500 HD fit perfectly).

I have always been impressed with quality. I used to own an auto repair shop, before going to law school in the 80s. I have my own hobby shop now, and recently picked up a made in U.S.A. Ranger tire balancer and rim clamp tire machine. I had not planned on getting this equipment, but ran across a deal too good to pass up. Besides, it was kind of a hassle to order tires from Tire Rack, take the tires and wheels off of whatever vehicle I was replacing tires on, throwing them in the back of my El Camino and taking them to a local shop to be mounted and balanced.

After getting my balancer hooked up and calibrated, I balanced the tires on my son’s 07 Suburban. He had just had four Michelins installed a few months ago but was complaining about vibration at highway speeds. EVERY one of the four tires was at least a full ounce out of balance.

To the point of my post. Two of his almost new Michelin tires are significantly out of round. The factory allow wheels are perfectly straight. Of course I put the two best (round) tires on front. It drives significantly smoother. I did not put a dial indicator on, but I have checked many tires for out of round in the past, and my “memory meter” would say about .060” at the very least.

So, thought I would check the balance on my 04 Yukon XL Denali. Again, new Michelins. This time THREE of the four are out of round. Again, the factory alloy wheels are perfectly straight.

1. Has Michelin quality control gotten this bad? Back in the day, I was always impressed with how perfectly round the Michelins were. I have also been impressed with Continental for roundness. Never saw a “brand X” tire that was very round, other than some really nice 13 inch tires I put on my Opel GT. They were made in Taiwan, and are very close to being perfectly round.

2. Is there a brand that has better quality control? I don’t think I have Continentals on any of my cars right now (may have some on the front of an old Bimmer, but would have to check).

I am getting ready to buy tires for Sherri’s 2019 Ioniq Plug in Hybrid. It came with Michelin Energy Saver in 205 55 16. The original tires have 60k miles on them and will go another 5 or 10k. I balanced them a few weeks ago (for the first time) and they did not need much weight. Also, much more round than the other Michelins I have checked lately. They were obviously manufactured a few years ago, not like the ones my son and I bought in the last year.

Lynn,

I have been an Associate Michelin dealer for the past 30 years and I can say first hand I have not seen any lack of quality control with any of their product. The out of roundness you see probably would be best analyzed on a Road Force balancer like a Hunter GSP9700 to see what the road-force readings are. I still believe that Michelin has by far the Best tires available today. My tag line talking to customers when they ask my recommendation on tire brands has always been: If Michelin made a wheel barrow tire, I would have one on my wheel barrow. Bill

[Lynn]

Take this with a grain of salt, as I have not professionally sold and installed tires since the 80s. Hunter didn’t even have a Road Force balancer then. When I mounted a new tire, if it was out of round, I checked the rim first, and if the rim was true, then I dismounted the tire and sent it back to the distributor. JMHO, but given modern production methods and all that is available today, there is simply no excuse for manufacturing a tire that isn’t round.

Road Force and out of round are two different things. If a tire is round and it takes a Road Force balance to keep it from vibrating, my opinion is that there is a manufacturing defect in carcass of the tire. There is no other explanation for why it would impart a different “force” to the road at different places on the tire.

I know every manufacturer has a standard (or standards, as larger tires are apparently allowed to be more out of round) for roundness on tires. I haven’t found where any manufacturer publishes that data.

On my Denali, I am certain it is too late to make any kind of warranty claim, as I bought the tires and had them mounted about 6 -8 months ago. I just did not know they were out of round (three of the four, that is) because I did not have my own balancer at the time. I just chalked the vibration up to the clowns at the local installer not being very adept at balancing. I saw a lot of techs over the years that just put on the recommended weight, and they are done. I have NEVER taken a tire off the wheel balancer until I see double zeros. So, after 8 or so months, I am certain that Tire Rack and Michelin will not respond. I will just live with it. After all it is my winter beater, so it doesn’t get driven all that much.

Just to clarify this situation, when I get the tires for Sherri’s car and install them later this week, I will get out the dial indicator and see how out of round they are. 205/55R-16 MICHELIN ENERGY SAVER A/S SL. While I have that set up in place, I can measure the two rear tires on the Denali.

[Lynn]

Update, Sherri's tires just arrived. I have everything shipped to our office. Looked at COO and they were manufactured in Canada.

Found a discussion where at least one guy believes COO for Michelins is a factor.

Here: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/th...ssible.364765/

I find that hard to believe, as I would assume that all the manufacturing equipment is the same from one Country to another, that the same compounds are used, and that the process is mostly automated, eliminating human error. But, apparently I am not the only one having difficulty finding round tires lately.

[Big Block Bill]

Hello Lynn,

I read the article and one thing that I don't agree with is:

"Claiming warranty based on out-of-roundness is generally very difficult. Manufacturers seem to have proprietary standards of how much variation is acceptable. They also vary depending on tire size and most manufacturers keep this data secret. Plus, their "acceptable" variations are way too high, so even tires deemed as "acceptable" cause major front-end shaking and they won't replace them."

Anytime we have ever sent in a defective tire (no matter what brand) for warranty / not in specs, we always send with the tire a printed report from the Hunter Road Force balancer showing the reason why and have never had a problem. I guess it all depends on the Tire distributor who sold you the tire. I can't state it enough times, this Road Force balancer I bought (12 years ago when it came out?) is a real problem solver when diagnosing and correcting vibrations and radial tire pull with new or used tires. You can tell the machine that the next (4) tires are going on the same car, and it will tell you where to put them for least pull, vibration and best ride. In my opinion there is no better brand of tire and alignment equipment than Hunter, period. It even has it's own web site: gsp9700.com And no, I do not work for Hunter engineering.

Bill