02 zl1's

[matt murphy]

I have it right here in the form of a TALL DECK SPOILER WAITING FOR YOU . . . What color do you want it ? ? ?

[mc25t190]

the increase is in the new owners hands! PJ was Lucky! As you are w/ # 3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!originaL!

[gemleeus]

i think how ever you bought those cars they should stay that way. if you want a different one, buy it. if you can't afford it sell the one you have and buy the one you want. if you still can't afford it then i'm sorry for you. don't mess with originality.

[02whiteragtop]

Hey Matt! I haven't talk to you in a while.

Did I understand you correctly. have you installed phase 3 packages in Berger, Hot Rod and 35th Performance cars? I'm not saying that anything is wrong with that. I just thought the 427 engine you were installing in the ZL1, was going to be a limited availability. If I misunderstood, I apologize!

A 427 in My car would be

Chris White

[matt murphy]

Yes . . . GMMG started offering a Phase 2 engine package in 2000, and we did the first one on Matt Berger's 2000 Berger SS. We then built another Phase 2 package for Matt's 2001 Berger SS and one for Johnny Benson's 2001 Berger SS. It then became something other Berger owners wanted. We then offered it to anyone with a GMMG car as an upgrade. Due to emission issues, the phase 2 package had to be a customer added option.

We have a base 380HP LS1 and 400HP LS6 package and the Phase 2 and Phase 3 package are customer options that can be added to those. The ZL1 cars were the first that we built with the Phase 3 427's, but like the Berger SS's that were the first Phase 2 cars, that became a GMMG option, not project specific. The 427 is not a ZL1 only option nor will adding it to any other GMMG car make that car a ZL1.

Charlies (Feature Car of the Month) Yenko is a good example . . . it was sent back to Yenko to get options added and that didn't hurt the value of it. Most of the dealer Performance cars had a base package and the customers could add to that . . . We are just taking care of these customers and helping them get more of what they want MORE POWER

[sYc]

I would think putting 427s in more GMMG cars, and/or building more 427 cars would tend to soften the market for all 427 GMMG cars. As we all know, the value of collector cars is very dependent on the numbers game, especially the number produded.

I know I would hate to see Yenko start building/selling '69 Yenkos again.

[gemleeus]

i think the same thing would happen if more were out fitted with the 427, katech, more perf. and others can do the same thing but of course its not a chevy backed gmmg car. the 69 02 zl1's that were built had that documentation of being 1 of 69 units built as was in 1969. people then also installed the 427 in their cars, but bought the engine from the dealer or an other source. as far as the vin#'s go on those 69 02 zl1's designating them as 427 cars i don't know about that. maybe someone can explain that.

[NCGuy68]

[ QUOTE ]
I would think putting 427s in more GMMG cars, and/or building more 427 cars would tend to soften the market for all 427 GMMG cars. As we all know, the value of collector cars is very dependent on the numbers game, especially the number produded.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tom...your point is well taken.

However, Yenko, Motion, Dana, etc...would build a car to customer specs if so desired. I think Matt & GMMG are trying to again offer that service. I understand your concern about 'diluting' the numbers, yet its been over 30 years since we've had a GM car worthy of supercar status.

All comments are welcome.

[matt murphy]

I agree with you guys to a point; but, we really can't say how many Phase 2 or Phase 3 GMMG cars were or will be built because we are still building them. Again, Charlie's car is a good example . . . Yenko was still around 10 years later and that customer wanted to upgrade his Yenko and they did.

On a side note, there was a 1967 Shelby GT500 that was at BJ and the current owner restored it with an aluminum 427 race motor and the announcers said that Carroll Shelby authorized it and changed that car in his records now to be a 427 race aluminum motor car. I dont think 30 years later, a Shelby Mustang should have its paperwork redocumented. Joel could do that if he wanted to, so could Berger on their COPO Camaros, but those cars were built 35 years ago, and our cars are still new. We still have two ZL1's here that the customers have not picked up or taken delivery of. I don't think we should penalize any customer that didn't know about the engine upgrades when they bought their GMMG car or if they couldn't afford it then.

Anyway, for our cars, we agree to upfit GMMG customers cars as long as we are in business. It really is a service to those customers and we started to offer this service based on, "If we don't offer the upgrades someone else will," or the owners will probably do it themselves or have Katech, Lingenfelter or Moore Performance, etc, do it for them. And then what do you have ?? A Camaro by GMMG modified by someone else. As long as we do the modifications, then that helps further document the cars. We also supply Chevrolet with our VIN numbers and the engine packages so they can monitor them whenever a warranty claim comes up on one of our cars. So far, no major warranty claims have come up on our cars that might have alarmed Chevrolet, but they do like it when they can call me and I can tell them exactly what was done to a certain car.

We are not changing history, as far as our GMMG history goes because we are not done writing it. Yenko, Motion, Nickey, Dana, and Berger from the 60's and 70's are done with their history simply because that era is over and most, not all, of those performance dealers, and performance shops, are no longer in business.

The bottom line is that you are talking about asking GMMG to stop selling cars and engine packages so the others that have them will be the only ones. I don't think anyone would have asked Yenko to stop working on or building cars after 1969 back then, so the cars they built would be more valuable . . . If they did, then there would be no Dueces or Turbo Z's or Charlie's car would still be a base 427 car.

When GMMG goes out of business, we will close the books on these cars and then the customers will have to go elsewhere or do any further upgrades themselves. I really dont see us doing these upgrades forever to these cars, but for now, it is hard to say OK to some, but sorry to others. Most customers that have asked, know, that I wont build one car and say that it is the only one ever made, but I will say that it is the first . . . Seriously, the number of upgrades will slow down in the following years and the cars history as far as GMMG goes will be cast in stone or CD's. Until then . . . we will still offer the upgrades.

Thanks for your input and ideas. I have dated the engine upgrades so we can tell when they were done and if a new owner, or potential buyer of one of our cars, wants to know the specifics on a particular GMMG car, they can call us and get the info from our files. And NO, we don't charge a fee . . . maybe in 30 years someone will dig up our files and sell the info for big $$$. Probably not . . .

[gemleeus]

so, there isn't any way, for instance, years down the road you have one of these cars and it has no paper docs. that you can decifer what come on one of the gmmg cars by simply looking at the vin, pop, cowl tag etc.? i know the window sticker states the option.