02 zl1's

[CWilliams]

Matt said all you have to do is call them and they have everything done to the cars by GMMG on file.

Matts got his finger on the pulse of the 4th gen. Camaro projects, whats overboard, whats just right, etc., plus he has the right background to be doing what he's doing. Mike, Bille and the rest of the guys are hot rodders at heart, they build strength, reliability, AND horsepower in these cars and they like to satisfy customers.

[matt murphy]

Lee,

15 years from now someone tells you a 2002 ZL1 is for sale at a used car lot in your town . . . You want to go look at it and you can't find my cell phone number to ask what to look for . . . Here are a few things to look for with and without a window sticker . . .

With a window sticker . . .

1) All of these ZL1's were B4C police cars called "Special Service Coupe"
2) All were built the second, third and forth week of MAY 2002
3) All had a dealer "Ship to" code of 08-386 (Bill Heard Chevrolet, Kennesaw, GA)
4) Dale Earnhardt Chevrolets name is on 24 of the window stickers, even though they didn't sell any of these cars. Berger Chevrolet bought the allocation from Dale's dealership. There are many different dealer names on the window stickers vs. the actual selling dealership. This will definately confuse things in the future, but something we did not forsee when the cars were ordered.

5) Obviously with our window stickers you will be able to tell the GMMG options, etc.


Without a window sticker . . . You need to look for these signs . . .

1) Look at the top pad on the passenger side of the engine block. It will read GMMGP1 or P2 or P3 for the base Phase 1 400hp, or Phase 2 475HP or the Phase 3 600HP engine package.

2) The VIN's ranged between 154530 to 161343

3) All were hardtops and 6-speeds originally (we changed 2 cars to auto #1 and #21)

4) Inside the drivers door jamb is a GMMG brass plate with the ZL1 car number on it as well as the dealer invoice number, our way to document and file the GMMG cars since the first one in 2000.

5) The drivers side rear axle tube has a blue painted area with the gear size stamped on it (i.e. 373 or 410 or 456), a way to tell the rear axle ratio without the window sticker.

6) Look at the Penske Racing Shocks (which are black in color with different colored top and bottom caps) and if the top and bottom caps are Silver then they were valved for Road Racing or Auto Cross, Gold caps were valved for Street Setup, and the Black caps were valved for Drag Racing.

7) The dash plaque and air cleaner sticker has the engine package info on each of them.

8) Look for the Corvette front and rear brake rotors and custome one piece front Corvette brake caliper bracket.

9) The rear lower control arms have solid rubber bushings in them vs. partial rubber bushings . . . these are part of the Police car suspension.


I could go on and on but I hope you get the point that even without the window stickers, there are tons of distinctive markings and parts and coded stamps that set these ZL1's far apart from any other Z28 or SS Camaro. I can't wait to see the clones or fakes some years down the road from now . . . or even the restored cars if that happens . . . It has to be neat for Joel to walk into the shows or look at one of his original Motion cars and see what has been done to it today, as far as being restored to the way he did them some 30 to 35 years ago. Some of the Chevy guys are talking about doing a book on these ZL1 cars and maybe including the other GMMG cars. That will have some incredible info and stories that will really amaze everyone on the history and making of these special cars.

One piece of 2002 ZL1 history . . . as I watch the 24hr of Daytona race on Speed Vision . . . I had the original Prototype car down there to show John Heinricy, the GM Engineer, who was racing that weekend in February of 2001 (who by the way is racing today as well in the #24 Corvette), and I ran into Dale Earnhardt in the pits with the car and we talked about the project and I showed him the car and its LS6 engine and the name was going to be ZL1 and we were going to build 69 of these. He told me he wanted 50 of them . . . I smiled as I was thinking of the conversation I just had with Matt Berger who told me that he wanted at least 25 of them. I told Dale that I dont think you will be able to get 50 of them since we are only going to build 69, and he poked me in the chest and said, "Fred Gibb ordered 50 ZL1's in 1969 and I want to order 50 ZL1's today." I said . . . "OK, I'll work on that Dale." Sadly he died the next week . . . but to his tribute, 24 of these cars have Dale Earnhardt Chevrolet on the window stickers and the next most dealers name on the stickers is 7 for Rick Hendrick Chevy and 7 for Henderson Chevrolet and only 4 with Berger Chevy on the stickers even though they sold 28 cars. All of the Earnhardt stickered cars were sold by Berger . . . A kind of poetic justice for Dale and Matt. I hope this was helpful to you and others . . .

[gemleeus]

i realize mr. murphy and gmmg knows and understand what they're doing. yes, right now he has his pulse on whats going on. down the road, years from now is what i was in reference to. thanks mr. murphy for your response to my question. i figured there was some kind of an identifiable difference between the 69 02 zl1's and the other cars you have produced. thanks again for your insight.

[82z96ss]

Just saw this thread for the first time. It is very informative. Thanks for all the information Matt.

But on another note, I find it sad that other GMMG cars are getting the C5R 427 (are they the exact ZL1 setup?). The Zl1's should be the only ones that received these packages. Correct me if I'm wrong, but one difference between the 69 ZL1's and other COPO cars was an aluminum block versus cast iron. So there is even a difference in the motors. Now the only difference will be a badge.

The ZL1 was supposed to be the bad boy of the Camaro , with others having the C5R 427 seems like others are getting the benefits of the ZL1 without paying the price of the ZL1. At least put a different 427 in the other GMMG cars.

Sorry, if my argument went off track, it is upsetting to me. So does that mean other GMMG cars can get a LS6 Phase 2 475 hp package instead of the LS1 Phase 2 435 package installed, etc... When do you say when?

[gemleeus]

i thought you read all of the replys in this thread. matt stated the 69 02 zl1's have various markings identifing them as the original 69 produced, those are already built and gone. the history of these cars have been set in stone. thats what i was in question about also, but matt explained that in detail. as in 1969 you could get the aluminum engines and set them in your camaro all day long, but that still didn't make it a zl1, same thing goes for the 02's. as far as money goes, the phase 1 and 2 cars were pretty expensive, now to send them back to gmmg and have the phase 3 package installed i'm sure would cost a lot of money, and well worth it i'm sure. don't worry there will always be only 69 1969 zl1's and only 69 02 zl1's ever made, and thank goodness for all the investment minded folks out there. i'll tell you honestly one thing that kind of puzzles me, i'm surprised to see the number of 02 zl1's for sale at this time, with people knowing the surely inherited value of these cars down the road. oh well maybe i can pick one up soon.

[02whiteragtop]

gemleeus,

I stand corrected. I went by West Chevrolet yesterday and the white ZL1 was sold about 2 months ago for $110K. Steve now has his silver car priced at $125K as you had stated. I apologize for any confusion I may have caused.

[gemleeus]

a friend of mine today told me he seen a 35th anniversary with the 427 pack. for sale on line and he couldn't remember the site. i would love to see that car, i bet its something special alright.

[MosportGreen66]

http://www.hemmings.com/index.cfm/fu...icle_id/204035

here is another one.

[gemleeus]

oh, i forgot to say the 35th. car was a convertible!!

[82z96ss]

Gem,

Just my opinion but others may be selling their cars because they aren't going to be as rare as once thought!

And I think I was the first guy to go from a phase 2 to a phase 3. I actually own the phase 2 motor (with all the stampings); so I know all about the markings and badgings. I didn't need to read the post, although I did.



And Yes anyone can install any motor they ever wanted, but they would not be the dealer optioned documented cars the ZL1's were supposed to be.