Barrett Jackson COPO Camaro

[Shevelle]

I see that Barrett Jackson has a COPO Camaro running on Saturday. It is silver with blue interior. I don't know if it's my computer or what, but I can't seem to pull up the cars on their website. Does anyone know, is this the same car that was the topic of much discussion last year? The rebodied one?

[69 Post Sedan]

Is this the one you are referring to? The decription states "During the restoration, this car was re-bodied."

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/applicati...mp;d=01/13/2009 (http://www.barrett-jackson.com/application/onlinesubmission/search.aspx?st=1&aid=283&d=01/13/2009)

[travlnz28]

I believe the one that was suspected of being rebodied was Rally Green.

[GRB]

2008 ZR-1 rolling chassis??? WTF? Didn't know GM sold stuff like that.

[Shevelle]

[ QUOTE ]
Is this the one you are referring to? The decription states "During the restoration, this car was re-bodied."

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/applicati...mp;d=01/13/2009 (http://www.barrett-jackson.com/application/onlinesubmission/search.aspx?st=1&aid=283&d=01/13/2009)

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure...the link just takes me to the first page of about 100 cars, Tuesday cars I suspect. I can't figure out why I can't get past that point. Anyway, I thought there was a Silver/Blue car discused here some time ago that had sold at Russo and I was wondering if this was the same car. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Hawkeye]

Here is the description from the BJ web-site:

This 1969 Camaro was a limited edition production vehicle, equipped from the factory with COPO 9561, a special high performance package which includes an L72 427/425hp engine with a matching numbers motor and transmission. The rear end is the original special posi-traction unit with a heat treated 4.10:1 ring & pinion. Included is a special ducted hood, dual exhaust system, increased cooling capacity and a heavy duty suspension. This car is equipped with the Rally Sport Package and Endura bumper. It was specifically engineered for drag race competition. This car is Cortez Silver with blue interior. During the restoration, this car was re-bodied. It is also documented with the Canadian paperwork and the COPO Connection Certification. This car was formerly from the Reggie Jackson collection.

[69 Post Sedan]

You have to click on the arrow next to the day. Change it to Saturday. Then look for Lot Number 1354.1 or just scroll down until you see the car. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[ANDY M]

Try this link:
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/applicati...mp;d=01/13/2009 (http://www.barrett-jackson.com/application/onlinesubmission/search.aspx?st=1&aid=283&d=01/13/2009)

[Hylton]

Finally! An honest Camaro disclosure at B-J.

[my70454ss]

Then why don't they disclose that the 2 yenko camaro's and the zl-1 are rebodies also. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[DarrenX33]

[ QUOTE ]
Then why don't they disclose that the 2 yenko camaro's and the zl-1 are rebodies also. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

BJ disclose? Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that the owners responsibility?

[COPO 70 RS/Z28]

I like the silver Deuce wonder if there is interesting history is on that ??? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/applicati...mp;d=01/13/2009 (http://www.barrett-jackson.com/application/onlinesubmission/search.aspx?st=1&aid=283&d=01/13/2009)

[Schonyenko2]

There's an old thread here that addresses some of the issues pertaining to the silver deuce.
Perhaps someone could find, and post it.

[COPO 70 RS/Z28]

I like your Yellow one the BEST http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[rich p]

Your saying two Yenko Camaro's !! I know of one..

[Bill Pritchard]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Then why don't they disclose that the 2 yenko camaro's and the zl-1 are rebodies also. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

BJ disclose? Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that the owners responsibility?

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely correct, Darren.

[quick-bowtie]

The Yellow Yenko race car isnt a re-body is it?? I had hopes of possibly buying that car. I thought only the green car was a rebody.

[COPO 70 RS/Z28]

I was referring to my Love of a members car (Yellow) not one at the BJ auction sorry for any confusion.

[rich p]

You say that their is two Yenko Camaro's http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

I caught the Yellow car that you were talking about a members car.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[COPO 70 RS/Z28]

Gotcha Now,

I see what you guys are talking about http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

[Shevelle]

Thank you for the link - I did finally get it to work for me (wasn't the computer, was the operator http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif) So yes, it is the same car I remember as being sold in FL at a Russo auction and subsequently being discussed here. Would have been last March or April I guess. I wonder if the seller is the same guy (Pete I think it was) that bought it at Russo. Seems like the discussion here was that he was wanting to get out of the sale. At any rate, it's good to see the car is being representing as what it is.

[Hawkeye]

I think I saw the green Camaro cross the block at Mecum, but did not hit the reserve.

[John]

So,do I understand correctly that...
..The Silver 1969 Zl-1 is a rebodied car
...the 1969 Fathom green Yenko camaro is a "rebodied car" and automatic
..the Silver 1970 Yenko Deuce is a "rebodied car"
...and the Yellow 1969 Yenko Camaro is an "original body" survivor car...and automatic( does it have the original motor )? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/Can-I-Have-It.gif

[CamarosRus]

For anybody not already knowing,the Fathom Green, #27 ZL-1 69 Camaro, is a TOTAL recreation with only the VIN tag being original. Rebodied, repowered, Re-trim tagged, RE EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!

[Charley Lillard]

Chuck..Since you are the guy with first hand knowledge you would probably best served if you just sent a letter straight to Barrett-Jackson. I know that happened on the white ZL1 before in regards to it's orig engine and they paid attention.

[StealthBird]

So what was the deal with the black 69 COPO Camaro? It was consigned by Joe Amato, did he buy this car at last years auction? $97K seemed cheap.... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[CamarosRus]

Charley, Les Quam offered to help me prepare an affidavit on this subject.

I can't prove any of my claims and I'm thinking it might be taken as hear say or B.S. I have no copy of my old WA state title, no picture of anything showing ZL-1 trim tag, VIN tag, ZL-1 engine in car, nothing............
There are people in Seattle who could confirm that I did own the car, such as Jerry Valentine (ex NHRA tech director), and Dick Tutino original owner and Alan Green Chevrolt service manager (who sold me the car, around 1975).

Only people who know the story of how the the ORIGINAL VIN tag was sold to whomever cloned/created what is being called a REBODIED ZL-1 obviously arent talking.....

I'm the person who parted out the ORIGINAL #27. I'm the person who knows the Original T-400 and 12 Bolt was gone when I owned/raced the car. I'm the person who sold the original #27 engine........however hear say has it that Gus Foster from Seattle wound up with it and or the damaged/destroyed block ??????

Why the COPO connection/ Cunneen would ever give the car his seal of approval based on the VIN TAG only will always baffle me ???

Curious to hear what the current engine alledgedly is ????? in terms of dates and stamping codes.

Hope nobody buys this CLONE without knowing the TRUTH!!!!!

[dvss1]

I was thinking the same on the price. 97,000 seemed too "affordable" for a Copo. Was this car a possible rebody?

[LT12NV]

Green ZL1 sold for 290k? Took lots of block time to get it there.. I saw Reggie bidding on it, but it looks like someone else won..Anyone know the winner?

[x Baldwin Motion]

[ QUOTE ]
For anybody not already knowing,the Fathom Green, #27 ZL-1 69 Camaro, is a TOTAL recreation with only the VIN tag being original. Rebodied, repowered, Re-trim tagged, RE EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

is that the one that just went for $290,000.00 ?

[1967 Impala]

I Did notice that Ron Pratt did not bid on it at all,and Greg Jackson told the acutioneer not to hammer it when it was around 200......

[Shankin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
For anybody not already knowing,the Fathom Green, #27 ZL-1 69 Camaro, is a TOTAL recreation with only the VIN tag being original. Rebodied, repowered, Re-trim tagged, RE EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

is that the one that just went for $290,000.00 ?

[/ QUOTE ]



That is the same thing i was wondering.

[Shankin]

270 for the yellow yenko.

[LT12NV]

[ QUOTE ]

is that the one that just went for $290,000.00 ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Im thinking so...I remembered the "57" scribbled on the firewall from the pics that were posted here..

[The Dude]

The green ZL-1 auction was embarassing to watch. Craig Jackson stopping the hammer??? Steve Davis giving Pratte a backrub??

I seriously doubt the buyer knows exactly what he bought.

[Rick H]

Looked like Reggie was bidding it up for Gary. He finally told Reggie to let it go. Hmmmmmm that was very interesting. Only telling it how I saw it. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif

Rick H.

[Steve Drueck]

(hypothetical math question) So if a nice ZL-1 clone is worth about $100K then
$290 K - $100K = $190K
thats the value of a ZL-1 VIN tag...? I better keep a security camera on mine then.

/sarcasm

[NWYENKO]

I swear I saw Reggie bid a couple of times while being coached by Holub!! New best friends!

[LT12NV]

[ QUOTE ]
The green ZL-1 auction was embarassing to watch. Craig Jackson stopping the hammer??? Steve Davis giving Pratte a backrub??

I seriously doubt the buyer knows exactly what he bought.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL I was thinking the same thing...They also seem to give it unusually long "auction block" time...

[iluv69s]

What the f*** was that??? Stopping the hammer ?? Reggie bidding on the green ZL-1? And then retracting his 300k bid...Does he know what the car is?? Didn't he used to own the car? am I confused??

I really don't think the buyer has a clue of the history of this car... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[The Dude]

Reggie sure did. Its funny how the so called "historic" cars linger on the block while others get hammered as soon as they go cold.

[The Dude]

[ QUOTE ]
What the f*** was that??? Stopping the hammer ?? Reggie bidding on the green ZL-1? And then retracting his 300k bid...Does he know what the car is?? Didn't he used to own the car? am I confused??


I really don't think the buyer has a clue of the history of this car... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Ill have to rewind the dvr but I thought the car was Reggies to sell???

[Steve Drueck]

B-J makes roughly 20% off of the selling price, so there is a lot of incentive to see big numbers, especially on cars well into 6 figures. That should explain some of the action.

[GRB]

What's with that blond headed wood pecker looking idiot that bids but never buys?

[Jeff H]

If that was Chuck's old car, it will be interesting to see if the new buyer knows about the history on it. $290 for a ZL1 should tell you something as a bidder.

[Shevelle]

I feel sorry for the buyer. He looked so proud and I don't think he has a clue... He got sucked in by the rhetoric on the stage... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[iluv69s]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What the f*** was that??? Stopping the hammer ?? Reggie bidding on the green ZL-1? And then retracting his 300k bid...Does he know what the car is?? Didn't he used to own the car? am I confused??


I really don't think the buyer has a clue of the history of this car... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Ill have to rewind the dvr but I thought the car was Reggies to sell???

[/ QUOTE ]

correct me if I am wrong....I thought the green ZL-1 was Holub's car but was owned by Reggie in the past...is that right???

[The Dude]

I saw Reggie up on the upper stage next to Craig Jackson so I figured it was his. Duped me!

[Rick H]

[ QUOTE ]
What the f*** was that???

[/ QUOTE ]

That was horse$hit. Reggie and Gary caught on tape bidding up his car.

Pratte wanted nothing to do with that car and was doing the best he could to hide but Steve was drapped over his shoulder doing his best to get him to bid.

Someone already said it...that was embarrassing to watch.

Rick H.

[BUIZILLA]

[ QUOTE ]
What's with that blond headed wood pecker looking idiot that bids but never buys?

[/ QUOTE ] you took the words right out of my mouth.... his visor makes him look like a visble plant to me..

[hvychev]

I was totally embarrassed watching that ZL1 auction. I know some of you love this Craig Jackson guy but I have always thought of him as a shiesty crooked car salesman. Believe me I know these guys when I see them. Having spent 10 years in a car dealership I know the type. He kept saying "this car has great history!" I laughed out loud when I heard that. The announcers were saying this is the buy of the auction and welcome to 2009 when a ZL1 only brings in the $200's, not knowing the bad stigma this car has. I bet Craig put his foot in his big mouth because he was probably telling Holub "yeah, don't worry, the car will bring a million!" as he stood there in his plaid suit coat and shiny pinky ring.

[iluv69s]

[ QUOTE ]
I feel sorry for the buyer. He looked so proud and I don't think he has a clue... He got sucked in by the rhetoric on the stage... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

he got his fifteen...really about 6...minutes of fame on TV..!! it seemed like the buyer jumped into the bidding at the end...I wonder if he just figured it must be such a great deal because the auctioneers were saying so.....ayayay.....

[iluv69s]

man, i wish reggie would have won the auction....

[sYc]

IMO, the buy of the lot was the P/L racecar, but the timing on the stage could not have been worse, following three redodies, all offered by the same seller.

The selling of the ZL-1 was a joke.

[MikeA]

[ QUOTE ]


Why the COPO connection/ Cunneen would ever give the car his seal of approval based on the VIN TAG only will always baffle me ???

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm....does seem strange.

[Steve Drueck]

I believe I heard that Ed Cunneen revoked and disclaimed all certifications. He is no longer involved in certifications.

[GRB]

Jackson (Craig) and Stevie Wonder seem to be a matched pair.

[Shankin]

It makes you wonder if 3 cars are rebodies then how many other makes are rebodied also.

[The Dude]

From the time it hit the block to the hammer dropping was 9 minutes.

[Dayton]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...... I thought the car was Reggies to sell???

[/ QUOTE ]

X2

[bigblockkid]

I never post on here but had to on this, that car was dead in the water at 2 min. I have never seen a car get "puffed" like that ever on Barrett Jackson. I miss the Barrett Jackson I remember as a kid which was on PBS on Saturday for 2 hours, circa 1993. I remember a local story, Seattle area, of a ZL-1 getting totaled in a street race back in the late 1970's. Why did the car get parted out?, I once had a conversation with Reggie about camaro's back in the late 90's and he told me he only buy's cars with "all the tissue", I can't see him getting his name tied to a fake car

[redeuce]

Chuck Sharin-

If you read this, please check your private messages. Tony Begley and I want to talk to you as soon as possible concerning this car. Something needs to be done about this.

[70 Forest Green Zee]

[ QUOTE ]
Green ZL1 sold for 290k? Took lots of block time to get it there.. I saw Reggie bidding on it, but it looks like someone else won..Anyone know the winner?

[/ QUOTE ]


he wasn't bidding on it....it was his car Made me sick to watch Craig Jackson practically down on his hands and knees begging people to bid! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif

[Jerry@CHP]

Did the Preston & Lawrence Yenko do $270K? Nice oem paint car but not much in successful race history, national event wins, or world championship titles.

Jerry

[hvychev]

Nice oem paint car? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif Not a lot of wins but still a cool car though.

[Mike]

Did Gary's silver Deuce and Green Yenko Camaro cross the block? If so, what did they bid to?

Mike

[BUIZILLA]

who owned the 3 in a row re-bodied car's in question here?

[hvychev]

Silver Deuce brought $100K

[Jeff H]

[ QUOTE ]
Did Gary's silver Deuce and Green Yenko Camaro cross the block? If so, what did they bid to?

Mike

[/ QUOTE ]

The Green Yenko shows sold for $132 which includes 10%.

[LT12NV]

[ QUOTE ]
man, i wish reggie would have won the auction....

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea me too...Would have made things a lot less hectic concerning this car....

[BonzoHansen]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
man, i wish reggie would have won the auction....

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea me too...Would have made things a lot less hectic concerning this car....

[/ QUOTE ]I didn't think they allowed the owner to openly bid. Or am I mistaken?

Edit: oh, it used to be his car.

[Chevy454]

Someone *please* tell me they Tivo'd the ZL-1 going across the block and that they're gonna put it up on Youtube?! Do it for us guys without SpeedVision...!

[The Dude]

Ive got it on my DVR.

[Chevy454]

Sweet...any chance of you getting it onto the net?

[The Dude]

Havent a clue how to do it.

[Chevy454]

LOL...no biggie, I might have another option!

[musclecarjohn]

[ QUOTE ]
I swear I saw Reggie bid a couple of times while being coached by Holub!! New best friends!

[/ QUOTE ]

Tell me the last time you saw Reggie bid to win a car @ auction...?

I've never even seen him bid before tonight... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[CamarosRus]

I'll be home tomorrow, if Tony wants to call after 11AM Pacific time..........my home # is 425-277-8833

BigBlockKid, That's the wildest story I ever heard about my old Alan Green #27 ZL-1. Dick Tutino(1st owner/ser mgr at Alan Green) may have driven car on street when first delivered as ODO had 50 miles on it when I owned it (after speedo cable and most of wiring harness was gutted). Car also could have collected ODO miles while at Gibb Chev ??????

Car was strickly a race car from almost day 1............

I still have original sway bar, heater plenum, back seat....

[70 copo]

Speed Commentator comments really got me....

"A rebody is kind of like George Washington's AX, it just got another handle-but is it still Geroge Washington's AX??"

"I remember several years ago when a ZL-1 would bring over 1 Million dollars- Welcome to 2009"

My fear is that the Hobby has reached a new low with the value reputation for ZL-1 and Yenko Nova's now injured through the sale of these cars and the remarks by the speed commentators. Not Good.

[Chateau Slate 66]

[ QUOTE ]
Speed Commentator comments really got me....

"A rebody is kind of like George Washington's AX, it just got another handle-but is it still Geroge Washington's AX??"

"I remember several years ago when a ZL-1 would bring over 1 Million dollars- Welcome to 2009"

My fear is that the Hobby has reached a new low with the value reputation for ZL-1 and Yenko Nova's now injured through the sale of these cars and the remarks by the speed commentators. Not Good.

[/ QUOTE ]


This one hit me pretty hard as well. They (Mike Joy) made a big deal about where a stripe on a trunk lid ended, but then made the comment above. Doesn't make sense to me. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[m22mike]

Did anyone else catch the COPO Vin comment by the other on stage guy with the little camera ?
He said something like....You can go to the "COPO Connection" , they have ALL the Vin's for all the COPO's built... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

Mike

[BUIZILLA]

[ QUOTE ]
who owned the 3 in a row re-bodied car's in question here?

[/ QUOTE ] anybody know? I think this is pertinent info... PM's are fine..

[lwkitt427]

I WAS WATCHING LAST NIGHT AND I AGREE THEY SURE DID GIE THIS CAR ALOT MORE TIME ON THE BLOCK THAN OTHER CARS. THE CAR SEEM TO STALL MORE THAN ONCE AND THEY KEEP ON PUMBING THE CAR.

[Charley Lillard]

Gary Holub owned the rebodied cars. He is usually very up front about what he has that is a rebody. He disclosed two of them very clearly but the ZL1 he was not as clear but the sale price reflected that most probably knew.

[Ironworker]

The current listing on the BJ website does disclose the ZL-1 as "Rebodied"

[iluv69s]

I think the cars that came after the Zl-1 may have been affected by the bidding and comments during the ZL-1 auction. I think that the folks from Barrett Jackson may have hurt themselves by allowing these cars in thier auction...My feeling is that a person wanting to buy a Boss 429 Mustang wont want to pay more than the value of a ZL-1!! ( Just an example)Unfortunately, the whole world saw what we all saw but they do not have a clue about the real story on any of these cars.......the ZL-1 is a benchmark car for values...

....also, just to clear up my comments about Reggie and the ownership of this/these cars....I know this was discussed in another thread here some time before the auction...but, please correct me if I am wrong...the three cars..one being the Duece..the other being the green Yenko Camaro, and the third being the ZL-1 were all owned by Gary Holub..and all are supposedly/apparently? rebodied at some point early in thier lifes...and apparently the owner is very open about the history of the cars...unfortunately, Barrett Jackson said some things about the cars that were not even close to reality..and the buyer probably had no clue...also I believe that Reggie had owned this same ZL-1 at some point prior...maybe Im wrong about that...many people have questioned me about who owned the ZL-1..and the other cars...Im just going by what Ive read here and other sites lately..I have no personal knowledge...again, please correct me if I am wrong...hope that clears it up..

[iluv69s]

[ QUOTE ]
Gary Holub owned the rebodied cars. He is usually very up front about what he has that is a rebody. He disclosed two of them very clearly but the ZL1 he was not as clear but the sale price reflected that most probably knew.

[/ QUOTE ]

my problem is the remarks Barrett Jackson made about the 'history' of the ZL-1...besides the whole fiasco of the auction itself.......I missed the Green Yenko auction...what did that sell for? ..but the Deuce was very clear that it was rebodied..although the 'ax' story was pretty weak... jmo

[SUSQ]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What's with that blond headed wood pecker looking idiot that bids but never buys?

[/ QUOTE ] you took the words right out of my mouth.... his visor makes him look like a visble plant to me..

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he was using the visor to hold his mullett back. Did he eventually buy anything or was he just sucking up TV time?

I think this is the second year that I don't recall seeing the big time buyer who always wore the Univerity of Tennessee cap. Is he out of the market? He seemed like a pretty shrewd buyer who knew what he wanted rather than just sit in the front row and bid on everything that crossed the block because he could.

[iluv69s]

...and yes Reggie was prior owner of ZL-1...here is a link showing advertising as such at the auction http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYRWSKl6doA

[NWYENKO]

Wasn't the green Yenko bid to $325 at Mecum and did not meet reserve? I think the waters were tested at Mecum and it was felt that it might go higher at Barrett-Jackson. Woulda, coulda, shoulda!!!

[redvetracr]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


I think this is the second year that I don't recall seeing the big time buyer who always wore the Univerity of Tennessee cap. Is he out of the market? He seemed like a pretty shrewd buyer who knew what he wanted rather than just sit in the front row and bid on everything that crossed the block because he could.

[/ QUOTE ]

or the clown in the Ferrari hat or the guy in the white t-shirt that they tried to stick with the Motorama $4 million dollar bus or any of the guys from that B-J scam TV show (with the exception of the guy with the shaved head)..all I watched was a couple of hours on Sat night but it`s like the circus came to town, and Speed put it on TV.

[WILMASBOYL78]

Karen and I watched this "circus" and couldn't believe what we saw happening on national television http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif When Jackson and company get tired of this gig, they should try running a 3 card monte game on a street corner some place....it would be a step up http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif


wilma http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif


http://www.yenko.net/attachments/380908-3CardMonte.jpg

Hey, kid...wanna buy a COPO..??

[BUIZILLA]

my opinion is that re-bodied car's shouldn't be getting the Saturday Night Fever limelight... they certainly don't deserve that fiasco... i'm very disappointed in some things from an integrity standpoint.... the green car DID have a Reggie Jackson nameplate on the front bumper, and it definately appeared to me that he was bidding it up for someone... play back the tapes carefully, and you'll see what I mean..

on the other hand, the Gwynn limelight auction was a very sobering and tearjerk timeframe, what a ultra classy guy. What he and Rick Hendrick did was emotional, and from the solid value core of the heart strings..

[69hurstSC]

I missed what ever it was that Rick Hendrick did that was emotional but I laughed my ass off when he bought the 2010 Camaro and everyone thought it was the greatest gesture in the world. Lets see, Hendrick gets factory backed support from Chevrolet, Chevrolet dontates the 1st public 2010 Camaro to charity. Isnt that kind of like me giving you 1,000,000 bucks and you giving me half of it back? WOW, great gesture!

Something needs to be done about the announcers criticising the bidders for not spending high $. I dont know how many times Steve or Craig got on the mic to bitch about people not spending money. They sound like a bunch of whiney little brats.

[67BobcatGTO]

I'd like to know how the ZL-1 was represented to B-J and if anyone in their organization is aware of the true story surrounding the car. I am not sure how extensivly Steve Davis researches the cars they select for consignment. We sold a 70 GSX Stage 1 car last year and while on the block, they basically described the car to the audience exactly as we wrote the ad copy.

Mike Mancini

[sYc]

[ QUOTE ]
Did the Preston & Lawrence Yenko do $270K? Nice oem paint car but not much in successful race history, national event wins, or world championship titles.

Jerry

[/ QUOTE ]


Just because a car was not successful on the track does not mean it does not hold value, and vice versa. I can name several examples of cars that were not very successful that sold for big dollars and other cars that won regional and even national events that sold for less. Racing success is only one of the many factors that determine a car's worth.


IMO, the P/L racecar is one of the most desirable Yenkos out there, regardless of whether it was successful on the track or not. I thought it would do better, heard from one collector who was unable to attend say he would have gone 350. Having to follow the other cars, and being from the Holub collection hurt it. Even the announcers were unsure in how to describe it.


In the long run I do not think the "circus" surronding the selling of these cars will hurt our hobby, but certaintly a black eye for "supercars", and worse yet, Holub, Reggie and B/J.

[HiHorse]

[ QUOTE ]
So what was the deal with the black 69 COPO Camaro? It was consigned by Joe Amato, did he buy this car at last years auction? $97K seemed cheap.... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Anyone know the story on this black COPO? what's the lot #?

[Chateau Slate 66]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to know how the ZL-1 was represented to B-J and if anyone in their organization is aware of the true story surrounding the car. I am not sure how extensivly Steve Davis researches the cars they select for consignment. We sold a 70 GSX Stage 1 car last year and while on the block, they basically described the car to the audience exactly as we wrote the ad copy.

Mike Mancini

[/ QUOTE ]

On TV they said that there was a "last minute" change to the auction bill that disclosed that the three cars were rebodies. The announcers said that Sunglasses Steve fully explained that fact each time the three cars went across the block. (Of course, that explanation magically didn't make in on the air) I would like to hear from someone that was there if that was in fact what happened.

[sYc]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to know how the ZL-1 was represented to B-J and if anyone in their organization is aware of the true story surrounding the car. I am not sure how extensivly Steve Davis researches the cars they select for consignment. We sold a 70 GSX Stage 1 car last year and while on the block, they basically described the car to the audience exactly as we wrote the ad copy.

Mike Mancini

[/ QUOTE ]

On TV they said that there was a "last minute" change to the auction bill that disclosed that the three cars were rebodies. The announcers said that Sunglasses Steve fully explained that fact each time the three cars went across the block. (Of course, that explanation magically didn't make in on the air) I would like to hear from someone that was there if that was in fact what happened.

[/ QUOTE ]


Hum... wonder if the dude who ended up with the ZL-1 got the memo? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[NWYENKO]

Chuck, I remember a rumor floating around Bremerton Raceway about 20-25 yeaars ago that Jim Bruns was running that body and the trim tag had been sold for $25k. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif At the time the car was red and one of the fastest and most consistent. Again I said "RUMOR". http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif Jim

[MosportGreen66]

If you think the ZL1 auction was pathetic to watch on TV talk about watching it in person. That was a dead stale mate at 200k when Reggie bid it up to the 300k area. Spanky was about to put the hammer down and Craig interferred saying "hold on!" as the car was still considered a "deal." Again I see a trend of buyers becoming more educated. 50% market value deduction for a rebody. Yenko Nova for 70k, the ZL1 for 300k. I like how the seller tried to sweeten the deal by including Yenko items. The one car that wasn't a rebody - the yellow car- brought market value for a Yenko Camaro/M40. I see no value in the rebody cars what so ever. Especially without the original components, you're paying a premium for what, the vin number? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif

[njsteve]

I think we can all officially agree that the B-J circus show has "jumped the shark."*

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark

[CamarosRus]

LOST my reply, while copying below pics........ARGH!!!!!!!!!

Interested to read why this community refers to a created, mfg, cloned #27 ZL-1 69 Camaro as a rebodied Camaro.

#27 that everyone saw on T.V. Saturday night has only ONE born with assy line part, the VIN TAG. Each and every other part on that car was imported from another 69 Camaro or bought new (N.O.S.).

There must be other rebodied projects where some/much of the born with sheetmetal, trim powertrain, trim tag was transfered to another body shell.

Where do YOU draw the line on what is defined as rebodied and where do you start using the defintion of deceit and recreation ??????????

Most of the sheetmetal and trim of the #27 ZL-1 remains in Wash State to this day....my below multi colored car is now solid red. Not sure who owns car now, but people like Jim Bruns, and Dave Barcelon surely must.





http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/CamarosRus/Misc%20Camaro%20pics/CSuperModProfile.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/CamarosRus/Misc%20Camaro%20pics/Fallnationals.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/CamarosRus/Misc%20Camaro%20pics/Image043.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/CamarosRus/Misc%20Camaro%20pics/ZL1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/CamarosRus/Misc%20Camaro%20pics/ZL1b.jpg

[Schonyenko2]

I find it interesting that the silver deuce brought 100k. If a rebody is 50% less, then does that mean deuces are worth 200k? I'm not sure if deuce owners should be outraged, or happy. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

I believe the P/L car should have gone through 1st. It had the solid pedigree. I too though it should have brought more.

Open question: How do you sell a car like the silver deuce for example,in a highly public forum, that is openly called a rebody. Where pictures exist, that show hidden vins have been welded/changed in the car, and not draw the attention of any state, or federal DOT enforcement people?
If changing vins to the extent that has happened here is a federal offense, where are the feds? And if you register, or title this car in your state, have you also not committed fraud?
If Howie's standin on the street corner sellin weed and the cop say's "what are you sellin", and Howie says "fine grade tobaco mixed with alfalfa, even though it's weed, well, that's one thing. But if he says, I'm sellin weed, I bet he gets arrested. What's the difference? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[iluv69s]

So the story goes like this... George Washington had an axe and he broke the handle...so he pulled out the little metal wedge from the top of the handle and removed the remaining piece of the handle...in the mean time he sent the axe head out to be sharpened but the guy sharpening the axe head ruined it by grinding it too much...so good old George, not thinking nothing about the future of his axe, went and found a used axe head that was already sharpened and bought a new handle and went and used that old " original wedge" to put it all back together again....so is it still the original axe???? I live in a historic town in Penna. very near where George once roamed...if I find this exact axe...what is it worth??

[x Baldwin Motion]

[ QUOTE ]
Speed Commentator (Mike Joy) comments really got me....

"A rebody is kind of like George Washington's AX, it just got another handle-but is it still Geroge Washington's AX??"
...

[/ QUOTE ]

That was the craziest thing I heard til the voices in my head asked me; "If Mike Joy needed a colonostomy, could he still be called an axehole?"

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Chateau Slate 66]

I posted this on TC, but it applies to this thread too...

If you use that same "George Washington's axe" arguement, you should be able to use this analogy...

I am sure that most people have seen an episode or two of "Antiques Roadshow" or at least heard about someone that had a highly desireable piece of funiture or antique and when they brought it to an appraiser, they had either cleaned it up too much or sanded and refinished it. The appraiser always says that "in its original condition, it would have brought 'X' money, but since you cleaned/refinished it, it has been DEVALUED to 'X' money."

The same should apply to the cars (legal issues aside) if they are trying to make the comparison. A rebody should never be worth close to the price of the original article.

[NovaMob03]

Ken, It must have something to do with the venue & hype. It kills me that a rebodied Deuce can pull 100+ comm when my 1 of 50, COPO #9738 Nova, with original Gibb Chev documents, can't hit that mark. I think the buyers leave their brains at home http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[lwkitt427]

RIGHT OUT THE BLOCKS B&L TRYED TO EXPALIN WHAT HAPPENED WITHT THE GREEN ZL/1 HIS EXPLAINTION WAS WHEN THE CAR WAS SO LOW THAT REGGIE SAID HE WOULD LIKE TO BID BUD IN ORDER TO DO SO HAD TO GO THE FLOOR TO BID. AND IN FACT REGGIE HAD OWNED THE CAR AT ONE TIME. TO ME IT SEEMS THE OTHER WAY AROUND LIKE THEY ASKED REGGIE TO GO DOWN AND HELP WITH THE BIDDING IN ORDER TO GET THE PRICE UP. LET NOT FORGET B&J MAKES MONEY ON EVERY CAR SOLD. SO IT IS BETTER FOR THEM IF THE CAR SELLS FOR MORE. I HAVE NO PORBLEM WITH A REBODIE AS LONG AS EVERYONE KNOWS WHAT IS UP. SO OF US WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO AFFORD A REAL ZL/1 AND THAT MIGHT BE THE CLOSEST WE EVER GET.

[elonblock]

I have only attended one auction with a friend who happened to be very knowledgeable with how auctions work. It was fun to go there with him, but I don't think I would attempt participating without some prior instruction.

In regards to this car, it appears to me that this car is well known for having "issues". And this isn't the first car with issues that has been discussed here, or known to be suspect.

For my clarity and learning,are there any solutions/options (aside from the buyer doing their due diligence) to prevent this type of thing happening on a regular basis?http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

Elon

[StealthBird]

Hey guys, I just uploaded the auction of that Fathom Green ZL-1 for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiLf56NlDPc

Mike

[Dayton]

Mike,

i don't think the link works

[lwkitt427]

I CAN NOT GET THE LINK TO WORK

[Chevy454]

Mike: the video is set to private status it looks like...

[camarojoe]

[ QUOTE ]
Did the Preston & Lawrence Yenko do $270K? Nice oem paint car but not much in successful race history, national event wins, or world championship titles.

Jerry

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you implying this car is not/was not recognized as a famous Yenko sponsored race car? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif If so then you are making a rediculous statement. The Preston & Lawrence Yenko is one of the only photographed and documented Yenko Camaros in Yenko published advertising, and probably the second most famous Yenko race car next to Ed Hedrick's car. It is even pictured in the opening pages of the Yenko Parts Catalog. I would rank it in the top 5 most desireable Yenko Camaros on the planet, I doubt I'm alone in that thought. If it I'd say it was one of the better buys of the auction.

http://www.yenko.net/attachments/380990-junk.jpg

[hvychev]

Joey, if I am not mistaking, the original Ed Hendrick car has not been found yet right?

[camarojoe]

You are correct. It's never been located.

[Unreal]

[ QUOTE ]
RIGHT OUT THE BLOCKS B&L TRYED TO EXPALIN WHAT HAPPENED WITHT THE GREEN ZL/1 HIS EXPLAINTION WAS WHEN THE CAR WAS SO LOW THAT REGGIE SAID HE WOULD LIKE TO BID BUD IN ORDER TO DO SO HAD TO GO THE FLOOR TO BID. AND IN FACT REGGIE HAD OWNED THE CAR AT ONE TIME.

[/ QUOTE ]

I saw that, and Mike Joy left out the part about Reggie withdrawing his final bid when it appeared he might actually be high bidder....pretty important piece of info, don't you think?

I did not see the original auction, so I'm assuming the accounting of it on this thread is true. If not true, I withdraw my criticism.

[sYc]

[ QUOTE ]
Joey, if I am not mistaking, the original Ed Hendrick car has not been found yet right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Everyone, including Ed, has been looking for his old racecar, with no success. Unless restored, would be pretty easy ID, as Ed made some pretty drastic/obvious changes.

IMO, THE most desireable Yenko, not only because it was a Yenko sponsored racecar, but because class Ed is such a class guy. He is all the time emailing Rob racing tips. Really cool to get tips from someone who ran with the Grump.

[StealthBird]

REALLY sorry about that. Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Just changed it to "public", here ya go...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiLf56NlDPc

Mike

[hvychev]

8 minutes 25 seconds from first yell to hammer. I seriously got sick to my stomach watching that auction. Craig Jackson is a bad guy in my opinion. This whole thing has seriously jumped the shark. What about the other poor saps that were also not getting what they wanted and got their cars hammered in less then 1 minute?

[Shevelle]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Speed Commentator (Mike Joy) comments really got me....

"A rebody is kind of like George Washington's AX, it just got another handle-but is it still Geroge Washington's AX??"
...

[/ QUOTE ]

That was the craziest thing I heard til the voices in my head asked me; "If Mike Joy needed a colonostomy, could he still be called an axehole?"

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[Chevy454]

[ QUOTE ]
REALLY sorry about that. Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Just changed it to "public", here ya go...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiLf56NlDPc

Mike

[/ QUOTE ]
LOL! No problem, and thanks... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[camarojoe]

A sad display for sure. That whole auction is a joke. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif

[NWYENKO]

Isn't the phrase "Caught on Tape"? I thought once you bid there was no saying "I didn't mean to do that"! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif Only Reggie.

[70 copo]

[ QUOTE ]
Speed Commentator comments really got me....

"A rebody is kind of like George Washington's AX, it just got another handle-but is it still Geroge Washington's AX??"

"I remember several years ago when a ZL-1 would bring over 1 Million dollars- Welcome to 2009"

My fear is that the Hobby has reached a new low with the value reputation for ZL-1 and Yenko Nova's now injured through the sale of these cars and the remarks by the speed commentators. Not Good.

[/ QUOTE ]


Anyone still watching at the final closing comments tonight right at the close of coverage?? I believe It was Mike Joy who said:

"prices for COPO's and Yenkos are not what they were"

So-We have some cars that are questionable, Bidders are smart, the cars bring bring fair value and suddenly the media commentator passes judgement on an entire hobby segment. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif

[Chevy454]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone still watching at the final closing comments tonight right at the close of coverage?? I believe It was Mike Joy who said:

"prices for COPO's and Yenkos are not what they were"

So-We have some cars that are questionable, Bidders are smart, the cars bring bring fair value and suddenly the media commentator passes judgement on an entire hobby segment. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Phil, they're simply attempting to justify this fiasco...

[BUIZILLA]

I sincerely hope the green car buyer didn't pay and reads this first, then watches the video replay for himself... if there was ever a fraudulent auction consumated, this one was it... a totally, premeditated and rigged public auction... and on live TV no less, for unrefutable evidence... that fat man actually came out from the background and instructed Reggie to quit bidding... I am completely speechless.... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[shor]

who did reggie leave the stage to talk to towards the end?

[NWYENKO]

The entire encounter was with the owner.

[BJCHEV396]

I'M GETTING TIRED OF ALL THE HYPE!DIDN'T WATCH AS MUCH AS I USUALLY DO.THE SATURDAY NITE ZL-1 FIASCO MAKE ME WANT TO PUKE!!!WHO PAYS MIKE JOY AND THE BOYS?SPEED OR B-J?BECAUSE THEY SURE SCHILL FOR AND KISS C.J.'S A**!

[427.060]

Did no one else notice that $300K was bid? They then asked for $310K and then dropped the hammer at $290K.
James

[The Dude]

Another car that made me puke was the Kennedy Lincoln. They stopped the auction three times to hype it, and that was after it stalled at 20,000. Auctioneer had the audacity to say it was a 300,000 dollar car. Its worth what the people are willing to spend. But they kept on it until it got to 60,000.

Its like me standing out front of my house shouting its still worth 150,000 when the market says its worthless.

[shor]

[ QUOTE ]
Did no one else notice that $300K was bid? They then asked for $310K and then dropped the hammer at $290K.
James

[/ QUOTE ]
did the reggie holub duo bid 300?

[ssl78]

If I remember right Craig Jackson owns a ZL1 maybe he plans on selling it soon and wanted to get the most out of this one.

[lwkitt427]

I BET CRAIG WOULD NOT SELL HIS FOR $300 ?

[Dayton]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Speed Commentator (Mike Joy) comments really got me....

"A rebody is kind of like George Washington's AX, it just got another handle-but is it still Geroge Washington's AX??"
...

[/ QUOTE ]

Lets examine Mike Joys logic. Lets say you have George's original ax. Ax head and handle intact. You buy an ax at Home Depot. You remove George's ax head and put it with a Home Depot handle. You place the Home Depot ax head on George's handle. Now you have 2 original George Washington ax's. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[SUSQ]

I don't think it got hammered too quickly, and maybe the auction was running out of steam at that point, but the the triple red '61 LeSabre convertible that sold on Sunday for $31,000 looked like an excellent buy. Looks like somebody got one helluva nice car for $31,000! Did anyone see the car in person? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[MikeA]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone still watching at the final closing comments tonight right at the close of coverage?? I believe It was Mike Joy who said:

"prices for COPO's and Yenkos are not what they were"

So-We have some cars that are questionable, Bidders are smart, the cars bring bring fair value and suddenly the media commentator passes judgement on an entire hobby segment. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bs.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Phil, they're simply attempting to justify this fiasco...

[/ QUOTE ]

Another big problem is that the commentators have a lot ( 4 to 10 hours) of time to fill-up with chatter. With that much time they are bound to say something stupid.

[67rs/ss]

If you watch Reggie bid 285k the asst. said 285 then spanky said can i get 10k bids only but then quickly took the 285, then instantly went 290, reggie went 300, then retracted then sold 290k to bidder #1265

[rubbinisracing]

Dang...that was quick, the youtube video is gone!

[Canuck]

A few obsevations:
I did not see Reggie wearing a bidder paddle.
The Kennedy Lincoln "Sold" at Las Vegas.
Ron Pratte clearly looked uncomefortable at the end of the ZL1 auction.
The Assiter family is a contract Auctioneering company, to have the CEO(Craig) interupt and say "Dont do it". Userps the authority given the lead Auctioneer to do the job he was hired to do.
What we see happening here insults the true car collector and affecianados, unfortunately 90% of the buyers and sellers at BJ are dealers. And they have to make a profit.
What makes a car more valuable because Reggie Jackson once owned it? he is a dealer. How many cars has he actually owned or possessed over the years?
Paul

[Schonyenko2]

[ QUOTE ]




Open question: How do you sell a car like the silver deuce for example,in a highly public forum, that is openly called a rebody. Where pictures exist, that show hidden vins have been welded/changed in the car, and not draw the attention of any state, or federal DOT enforcement people?
If changing vins to the extent that has happened here is a federal offense, where are the feds? And if you register, or title this car in your state, have you also not committed fraud?

[/ QUOTE ]

Let me ask the question again, and perhaps our "legal staff", njsteve, or Les Quam could address it. How do you reconsile an admitted vin changed, hidden vin welded in, vehicle with both federal, and state DOT regulations?
If you know it's a rebody, and the vins have been illegally changed, are you not part of perpetuating the crime by selling it? And again, how would you legally title, or register this vehicle if you're the buyer. You're asking to register a vin nbr illegally (I think) attached to a car that should have a different vin. It seems this is an oxymoron.
At the prices we're talking about here, and the outrage that it always seems to generate, you'd think someone in the law enforcement community would perk up.
Or am I missing something, and is there a legal procedure that allows what transpired, to not be illegal?
We can all express moral outrage until hell freezes over, but until someone is charged, and a legal precident is established in this arena, it will not end.

[Canuck]

Wanna bet you wont see that ZL1 in future reruns of the 2009 Auction.
The Craigerator has already made a call to the honchos of the editing dept of Speed.
Paul

[camarojoe]

Ever notice that EVERY year for a week after the B-J auction ends there are countless threads noting many examples of deception, fraud, and outright lies? Yet people still have the guts to say that B-J "sets the tone" for prices for the upcoming year...In my opinion B-J is nothing more than a big joke, a car show at best, and less "real" than pro-wrestling....has been for years. I'd also bet most of the "well bought" cars weren't actually bought at all.

[Seattle Sam]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Green ZL1 sold for 290k? Took lots of block time to get it there.. I saw Reggie bidding on it, but it looks like someone else won..Anyone know the winner?

[/ QUOTE ]


he wasn't bidding on it....it was his car Made me sick to watch Craig Jackson practically down on his hands and knees begging people to bid! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

It was Gary Holub's car, previously owned by Reggie Jackson. I remember seeing it at one of the Mecum auctions in 2008, it was a no sale at I believe around $320-330,000. It would have been really embarrassing to Barrett-Jackson if it sold for the $120K or so that it first stalled at.

However, it looked like Reggie was standing next to Gary while he was bidding; it looked obvious to me anyway that Reggie was bidding off Gary's signals.

Looked like total BS - the original bidder should have been able to buy that car at the $120K it might be worth, not $290K that they shill bid it up to.

JMHO, but the auction of that car was BS. And how many times did YOU see cars hammered sold while folks were still bidding on them, or before the second bidder had backed out? At least when you watch Mecum you feel they are trying to get the top dollar for your car; at B-J if you are not somebody, you are in line to get screwed.

[Seattle Sam]

[ QUOTE ]
So the story goes like this... George Washington had an axe and he broke the handle...so he pulled out the little metal wedge from the top of the handle and removed the remaining piece of the handle...in the mean time he sent the axe head out to be sharpened but the guy sharpening the axe head ruined it by grinding it too much...so good old George, not thinking nothing about the future of his axe, went and found a used axe head that was already sharpened and bought a new handle and went and used that old " original wedge" to put it all back together again....so is it still the original axe???? I live in a historic town in Penna. very near where George once roamed...if I find this exact axe...what is it worth??

[/ QUOTE ]

Well at least in this case you still have an axe that George Washington owned. What if George tied a little tag on his axe with his name on it and you bought it? And then later on the handle rotted and the head rusted and pitted real bad, so you bought a new axe and moved that name tag over - now THAT would be a rebody! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Mr. Chevy]

[ QUOTE ]
Ever notice that EVERY year for a week after the B-J auction ends there are countless threads noting many examples of deception, fraud, and outright lies? Yet people still have the guts to say that B-J "sets the tone" for prices for the upcoming year...In my opinion B-J is nothing more than a big joke, a car show at best, and less "real" than pro-wrestling....has been for years. I'd also bet most of the "well bought" cars weren't actually bought at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto on that!! I hardly watched any of the auction this year.. A little bit on Saturday nite. After about an hours worth I was nauseated and had to turn it off. One guy that really bugs me there is Craig Jackson's little crony that has the slicked back hair and always wears the dark sunglasses. Did anyone ever tell that guy that he can take his "JOE COOL" shades http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif off inside the tent!! What an arrogant idiot.. He can loose the hair style too, that went out years ago!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/stupid.gif

Rich

[DarrenX33]

I liked hearing Craig say how much of a deal the ZL1 was. I kept yelling at the TV, "If its such a deal then buy it Craig!". Its TV, supposed to be entertaining right? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[GRB]

Reggie's reputation is taking a big hit. He makes a lot of money for just having owned certain cars but now he's playing fast and loose with his reputation.

Example: There is an article in the Feb.'08 Chevy Rumble called 'History in the Making'. The writer recounts Walden and Harrell's early problems with the ZL1 aluminum blocks. The story the writer tells is far from the one I heard straight from one of he horse's mouth. Do the facts matter anymore?

After watching Reggie yesterday I thought back to what this writer claims happened to Lamar Walden's first aluminum block. According to him the regional service mgr. came by to haul the "warranty block" away but then decided he didn't want to get his trunk dirty. So instead of returning the block to GM (I would think the engineers would want to inspect the damage, especially on a new engine design) he decided to just take a big hammer and break away the portion of the block with the serial number on it. Pardon me, but I smell bullshit.

Maybe somebody can link the article if some of you want to read it. I'm not accusing anybody of anything but this story just seems to work out a little to well for all parties involved! And Reggie actually helping rebuild the engine???

I hope big money and greed don't totally ruin our hobby.

[Fast67VelleN2O]

[ QUOTE ]


I hope big money and greed don't totally ruin our hobby.

[/ QUOTE ]

Too late.

[GRB]

Maybe not. The passion will always be there. We've just got to find a way to lessen the impact of the BJs and the charlatans.

[The Dude]

[ QUOTE ]
Reggie's reputation is taking a big hit. He makes a lot of money for just having owned certain cars but now he's playing fast and loose with his reputation.

Example: There is an article in the Feb.'08 Chevy Rumble called 'History in the Making'. The writer recounts Walden and Harrell's early problems with the ZL1 aluminum blocks. The story the writer tells is far from the one I heard straight from one of he horse's mouth. Do the facts matter anymore?

After watching Reggie yesterday I thought back to what this writer claims happened to Lamar Walden's first aluminum block. According to him the regional service mgr. came by to haul the "warranty block" away but then decided he didn't want to get his trunk dirty. So instead of returning the block to GM (I would think the engineers would want to inspect the damage, especially on a new engine design) he decided to just take a big hammer and break away the portion of the block with the serial number on it. Pardon me, but I smell bullshit.

Maybe somebody can link the article if some of you want to read it. I'm not accusing anybody of anything but this story just seems to work out a little to well for all parties involved! And Reggie actually helping rebuild the engine???

I hope big money and greed don't totally ruin our hobby.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it was Hot Rod that ran an article about a vintage speed shop in Oregon? that had a few original ZL-1 blocks. They also told the story of the early Zl-1s dropping valves and the GM warranty guy personally breaking said blocks upon inspection. ??????

[Smokey]

Are we going to have vistors from BJ on here now with black helicopters over us???

Maybe they will buy this board up!!

[redline]

During the bidding on the ZL-1, I loved it when the bidder at the back got off the bidding when he saw Reggie start to bid, he said a few choice words to the ring man then walked away. up until that point he had already bought a few cars.

I had it recorded and replayed it many times. Early on in the bidding, when Reggie was behind the auctioneer, you could read his lips: he was saying "Buy It Back".

Did anybody see the explanation Mike Joy gave on Sunday at the beginning of the broadcast?

Lots of emails about Reggie bidding on his own car. Mike explained how it wasn't his car and that nobody was allowed to bid on their car at BJ http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

What about all those buy backs over the past years? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[StealthBird]

Just for those that came in late, I posted my link a couple pages back: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiLf56NlDPc

You know, considering others have posted clips of other auction cars, if my video gets deleted, then I guess we'll know that they want to cover this thing up. If YouTube pulls my video, I'll let you guys know ASAP....unless the black helicopters get me first. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

[rpoz11]

Boycott future BJ auctions and start your own version at Your Super Car Reunions you have yearly!

You could control the future values of the cars by keeping a better group of people surrounding them.

Involve a co-op with the said groups in the know who keep the records on these cars there by eliminating the current situation presently happening to our Hobby.

No more Camaros at BJ.

Bring them all to sYc reunions.

You could then control the future auctions etc and eliminate all doubt.
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[Steve Drueck]

Schoneye The federal statue on VIN's applies to a stolen vehicle. If you are the "owner of said vehicle, or agent thereof" the exemption for removing/replacing is clearly stated. The law yields if you are "repairing" your own vehicle. So when a body shop is putting a front clip , cowl or body shell on a damaged vehicle it is a repair , not a criminal act. The law needs to be amended to state that if fraud is involved it is a criminal act, stolen car or not. Defining the exact nature of where fraud exists, however, is a real challenge . Sure, we all know it when we see it, but putting it in a legal code is the hurdle. Write your elected officials. Last I looked, however, they won't even jail a guy that stole 50 Billion from investors.

[Steve Drueck]

Once you guys decide on an acceptable description here is where to take it. Fax them, write them and call them.

Here is the contact info for US House of Representatives

http://clerk.house.gov/member_info/index.html

Here is the US Senate contact info, sorted by state.

http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm?OrderBy=state&Sort=ASC

You can google search for your local state reps.

[JRSully]

Getting away from the ZL1 fiasco, did anyone see that 69 hugger Orange/White top 69 SS Chevelle go across the block on Sunday.? Owner claiming original paint and top.? That was a $15k repaint if ever there was one. Even the COMMENTATORS were questioning it's autheticity. BJ has definitely lost the educated seller and buyer at this point, Jackson is PT Barnum, the flim flam man. An arena for the too wealthy and too uneducated to show off and get thier mugs on TV. Can't believe I wasted hours watching that crap. My .02

[Charley Lillard]

And you will waste more hours next year. And the next year and the next year....

[m22mike]

[ QUOTE ]
And you will waste more hours next year. And the next year and the next year....

[/ QUOTE ]

You bet http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif It's like being hooked on watching "Judge Judy".....I can't stop....great entertainment http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif
Except I Tevo so I can blow off the comercials http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

Mike

[COPO 70 RS/Z28]

I'm just a nube to all this, I thought (at lease in the Peoples Republic of Illinois) that when a vin was changed on a car for repair etc. that it had to be witnessed and certified by a officer of the Secretary of States office. I'm not sure but then it would seem that there would be certification papers which would have to move with the title of the car?????

I feel real bad for the guy that bought the green ZL-1. He looked absolutely thrilled. Now I have to assume that he is really upset at this point, I cant see that the news has not gotten to him by now.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif

[MosportGreen66]

[ QUOTE ]
Ever notice that EVERY year for a week after the B-J auction ends there are countless threads noting many examples of deception, fraud, and outright lies? Yet people still have the guts to say that B-J "sets the tone" for prices for the upcoming year...In my opinion B-J is nothing more than a big joke, a car show at best, and less "real" than pro-wrestling....has been for years. I'd also bet most of the "well bought" cars weren't actually bought at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Joe, I agree. BJ is a car show. Nothing more, nothing less. To me, it sets no market value.

Barrett Jackson is a wonderful for people who have very deep pockets for purchasing cars. It is the best car show in the world. Period, end of story. Even if you do not buy a single car, just being there to watch the action, collect some free-goodies and watch the auction is enough for you to understand the how the system works. Steve Davis, for example, must have said the following 1,000 times this past week. "Blue chip car, Investment car, collector starter car." After a while it became down right embarrassing to listen to. The ZL1 auction was a JOKE! Reggie and Holub were bidding the car up to 300k while whispering behind the podium/microphone. The winning bidder of the car was like a marionette bidding on that car.

Schonye- to answer your question from the perspective of someone who was on stage for the Yenko/ZL1 auctions, I do not know the legality of the auction, but IMO, the only pictures that I would be interested in seeing are pictures of the rebody-hidden vin swaps, tags etc. Barrett Jackson is not a forum for selling cars with hi-pedigree. That with why Mecum, Gooding, and Russo-Steel exist. While there were many no-question #1 condition cars with paper to back it up, we saw more restamps, clones, fake tagged muscle cars in one weekend than I want to admit. But I also think the buyers this year were smarter with money than ever before.

At Barrett Jackson there is no test driving, no formal inspection, barely even an opportunity to check numbers, pads, engine codes/castings or cowl tags. BJ will always remain the place to sell a questionable car why? Because sellers can! I had a great laugh when a fellow on stage with a '70 440 Cuda was on his cell phone, checking the welds in the 1/4, while he was bidding. Talk about inspection on the fly.

While we can beat up Craig Jackson and Steve Davis for being gut-wrenching, money hungry business men, the charity work they do is really top notch. And while I hate to admit how many times I turned around to comment on how utterly pathetic the two sounded when they complimented a phony or fake car with the coined "blue chip investment" or "collection starter quality" who else can raise over $1,000,000 in one night (in this economy) for charity?

I'll let someone else talk now.

-Dan

[Schonyenko2]

[ QUOTE ]
Schoneye The federal statue on VIN's applies to a stolen vehicle. If you are the "owner of said vehicle, or agent thereof" the exemption for removing/replacing is clearly stated. The law yields if you are "repairing" your own vehicle. So when a body shop is putting a front clip , cowl or body shell on a damaged vehicle it is a repair , not a criminal act. The law needs to be amended to state that if fraud is involved it is a criminal act, stolen car or not. Defining the exact nature of where fraud exists, however, is a real challenge . Sure, we all know it when we see it, but putting it in a legal code is the hurdle. Write your elected officials. Last I looked, however, they won't even jail a guy that stole 50 Billion from investors.

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand, but think too, as Carl stated about Il. a DOT officer is required in Ia. also to witness a VIN changeout, and document it. I'm not sure it may not require a new VIN nbr. I'll see if I can dig up officer Dan my DOT guy and get his opinion.
We're on the same page with Bernie. Bernie should meet Bubba. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[iluv69s]

[ QUOTE ]
LOST my reply, while copying below pics........ARGH!!!!!!!!!

Interested to read why this community refers to a created, mfg, cloned #27 ZL-1 69 Camaro as a rebodied Camaro.

#27 that everyone saw on T.V. Saturday night has only ONE born with assy line part, the VIN TAG.



[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Chuck...With all due respect and please correct me if I am wrong on the facts...I am going from memory and my alzheimers kicks in at times..hehehe, but I thought the story in prior threads was that you took the car to get mini-tubbed and they cut the full floors out, so you found another body and switched the VIN and the drivetrain and went racing with the car...and that point, I believe the car was considered "rebodied"....I realize at some point the drivetrain was separated from the body and the car parted out...but I would still consider the car rebodied. I dont see much difference if it has the original drivetrain or not...

..if the original body is found, I dont know what they could do with it without a VIN....?? maybe sell it to the owner of the car!! hehe

Do I have the story right?? more or less?? hehe... just my opinion... Max

...and as far as the auction companies...I dont know if one is any better than another...I remember last year this same car running through one of the other big auctions and bidding to 315,000 but not hitting the reserve.Is there an auction company that will not accept this car? I dont know if the buyer got such a bad deal as he may be able to sell the car for more money some day.
I realize that there are many purists in the hobby, but apparently, the law is set-up so a car can be repaired and "rebodied" if there was no fraud intended...I dont believe Chuck was committing fraud back when he did this. And as long as the seller makes a reasonable effort to disclose this, I dont think they are liable either...The whole Feggie bidding on teh car seems shady, but I guess he had every right to bid and win the car as anyone.......I'm not sure what was said in person by Barrett Jackson before this car sold at the auction as far as disclosure...apparently Reggie spoke about the car...but it was not shown on TV...anyone that was there??? Did BJ disclose the rebody of the ZL-1 prior to the auction??
I'm no lawyer, but I dont think it would be easy to prove any wrongdoing in court over all this...I think you would have a tough time saying you got ripped off just because the car bid to 315,000 last year at another auction.

jmhu...

Thanks, Max

BTW, Chuck...those pics are bad asssss http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[SBR]

[ QUOTE ]
8 minutes 25 seconds from first yell to hammer. I seriously got sick to my stomach watching that auction. Craig Jackson is a bad guy in my opinion. This whole thing has seriously jumped the shark. What about the other poor saps that were also not getting what they wanted and got their cars hammered in less then 1 minute?

[/ QUOTE ] Exactly right, plus did you hear Craig Jackson when it was at 225K and Spanky was going to hammer it he whispered " don't do it" then winked to someone behind him. Really a sad display. One other thing if Reggie was really intending to buy the car where was his bidders id? Everyone else had one, I guess if your famous the rules do not appy. That being said I will surely tune in to see every minute of nexts years auction http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Mr70]

BJ Az. has always been surreal theater.Nothing more,nothing less.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v669/Rick_Peters/popcorn-1.gif

[Hylton]

It's nice to finally see the whole rebody thing come out and into the light. Compare this auction to 5 years ago when everything sold was perfect, original and never questioned. It was the unspeakable. Ya right!

With respect to the green ZL1, it was funny to see Ron Pratt and Rick Hendrick sit on their hands while the car was on stage. They both had this look on their face as if to say "I'm not touching that with a 10 foot pole".

Charley - what was the deal with the black COPO? A few guys have inquired.

[Jim Ferron]

I watched the video twice...when did they announce it was a re-body? As a matter of fact...C Jackson said 'this is a real car'..but they knew..it was a re body..hence NOT a real car...

Did I miss something?

I've been to Barrett Jackson twice...it is a meeting place of shysters and automotive idiots...idiots who want to be famous at the expense of paying a HUGE premium.

[70 copo]

[ QUOTE ]
It's nice to finally see the whole rebody thing come out and into the light. Compare this auction to 5 years ago when everything sold was perfect, original and never questioned. It was the unspeakable. Ya right!

With respect to the green ZL1, it was funny to see Ron Pratt and Rick Hendrick sit on their hands while the car was on stage. They both had this look on their face as if to say "I'm not touching that with a 10 foot pole".

Charley - what was the deal with the black COPO? A few guys have inquired.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hylton,

If you followed numerous threads here over last few years that were BJ was the topic - overall I think BJ has gotten a fair shake including LOTS of critical commentary where deserved, and some defenders who cleared the record for BJ.

I had enough of the BJ auction scene by 2003 which was the last year I attended.

This year one of the hi points for me was the 2010 Camaro sale to the noted NASCAR Chevrolet sponsored team owner Rick Hendrick who of course is on the big time payroll as a race team owner for client Chevrolet/GM.

Hendrick conviently pays over 300 Large for the first 2010 Camaro with the announcers saying time and time again that "some lucky enthusist was going to get the chance" Perhaps Hendrick is a Camaro Enthusist, however if he is or not the whole thing looks very conflicted out to me.

BJ great to watch on TV but I put it in the same league as pro wrestling just car style, it is entertainment and most of the country has little else to do in the dead of winter so they watch.

[Kim_Howie]

Chuck did not remove the trim tag or vin# from the car. Somebody else did that. The car now has the correct vin on the body. There lies the rub!!!

[Hylton]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's nice to finally see the whole rebody thing come out and into the light. Compare this auction to 5 years ago when everything sold was perfect, original and never questioned. It was the unspeakable. Ya right!

With respect to the green ZL1, it was funny to see Ron Pratt and Rick Hendrick sit on their hands while the car was on stage. They both had this look on their face as if to say "I'm not touching that with a 10 foot pole".

Charley - what was the deal with the black COPO? A few guys have inquired.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hylton,

If you followed numerous threads here over last few years that were BJ was the topic - overall I think BJ has gotten a fair shake including LOTS of critical commentary where deserved, and some defenders who cleared the record for BJ.

I had enough of the BJ auction scene by 2003 which was the last year I attended.

This year one of the hi points for me was the 2010 Camaro sale to the noted NASCAR Chevrolet sponsored team owner Rick Hendrick who of course is on the big time payroll as a race team owner for client Chevrolet/GM.

Hendrick conviently pays over 300 Large for the first 2010 Camaro with the announcers saying time and time again that "some lucky enthusist was going to get the chance" Perhaps Hendrick is a Camaro Enthusist, however if he is or not the whole thing looks very conflicted out to me.

BJ great to watch on TV but I put it in the same league as pro wrestling just car style, it is entertainment and most of the country has little else to do in the dead of winter so they watch.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you. This site has always been on the ball. Membership has it's privileges. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif My point was that the general public seems to be starting to understand the rebody thing and that at least BJ has begun to announce when cars are rebodies.

[Hylton]

[ QUOTE ]
I watched the video twice...when did they announce it was a re-body? As a matter of fact...C Jackson said 'this is a real car'..but they knew..it was a re body..hence NOT a real car...

Did I miss something?

I've been to Barrett Jackson twice...it is a meeting place of shysters and automotive idiots...idiots who want to be famous at the expense of paying a HUGE premium.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jim,

Apparently the statement was made by the auctioneers when the cars came up for sale. It was conveniently edited out of the broadcast.

[John]

Who bought the Yellow Yenko camaro? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[William]

The sign in front of the ZL-1 stated it was a re-body. Did not help that style trim was added.

The black COPO should have done way better. Nice car only minor issues.

[L72COPO]

Although Craig Jackson's "WINK" is not clear in the U-Tube segment it was very clear on my DVR recording when I showed it on my big screen LCD. The guy he winked at was Gary Holub standing right behind him.
There was also disclaimers through out the auction shown on the big screen TV's right next to the stage that said something to the effect of "IT SHOULD BE ASSUMED THAT ALL CARS ARE NOT MATCHING NUMBERS AND MILEAGE IS NOT ACTUAL" or something to that affect.
The net net of the whole fiasco is that BJ is in business to make money and is very succesful at it. They are car salesmen and nothing more. They don't care about true quality cars, they just want to sell them. As long as people buy from them it will continue. We can all wring our hands and bitch about it, but it isn't going to change. So take it for what it is "entertainment" and keep supporting the legitimate venues for buying and selling the cars we love.
I do, however have to give credit to BJ for their charity efforts. That does mean a lot.

[Chevy454]

As usual, Don nailed it...

[Hylton]

[ QUOTE ]
The black COPO should have done way better. Nice car only minor issues.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's scary! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Imagine the sellers reaction - taking home less than 90K?

[Jim Ferron]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I watched the video twice...when did they announce it was a re-body? As a matter of fact...C Jackson said 'this is a real car'..but they knew..it was a re body..hence NOT a real car...

Did I miss something?

I've been to Barrett Jackson twice...it is a meeting place of shysters and automotive idiots...idiots who want to be famous at the expense of paying a HUGE premium.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jim,

Apparently the statement was made by the auctioneers when the cars came up for sale. It was conveniently edited out of the broadcast.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm still confused..

poster said he it got footage from his DVR..

The broadcast was 'live' wasn't it?

You can't edit something that is 'live ' can you?

I don't mean to be obtuse...

[Hylton]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I watched the video twice...when did they announce it was a re-body? As a matter of fact...C Jackson said 'this is a real car'..but they knew..it was a re body..hence NOT a real car...

Did I miss something?

I've been to Barrett Jackson twice...it is a meeting place of shysters and automotive idiots...idiots who want to be famous at the expense of paying a HUGE premium.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jim,

Apparently the statement was made by the auctioneers when the cars came up for sale. It was conveniently edited out of the broadcast.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm still confused..

poster said he it got footage from his DVR..

The broadcast was 'live' wasn't it?

You can't edit something that is 'live ' can you?

I don't mean to be obtuse...

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't edit something live but you can decide when the broadcast joins the auction. You see the car already on the block when the broadcast starts so viewers at home have no idea what has been said prior to start of auction.

[ORIGLS6]

I agree with Don also. I've said for years B-J is just an entertaining car show. I talked with another member here last week and we both agree; at the present time if you're looking for an auction that more accurately reflects the 'real life' pricing on "Quality" collector cars, look to Mecum.

Let's hope they can hold on to their integrity.

[JChlupsa]

[ QUOTE ]
Did not help that style trim was added.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wasnt the D80 spoiler option added as well?

[jeff morocco]

B-J was very entertaining for me. i love looking for people that i know better than looking at the cars going across the block. that and doing the fantasy bidding with the boys was just as fun. !!!! so i will watch again next year(if i dont go) and as far as the ZL-1 http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

[Kim_Howie]

I was waiting for the old organ grinder to appear when the ZL-1 was sold. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[iluv69s]

[ QUOTE ]
Chuck did not remove the trim tag or vin# from the car. Somebody else did that. The car now has the correct vin on the body. There lies the rub!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Chuck,

If that's the case, I apologize...I thought I remembered Chuck explaining that "he was just a 23 year old kid wanting to go racing"..or someyhing to that effect..if I have it wrong, thanks for letting me know Kim. Im probably confused. As usual!! hehe
Maybe I should have just ASKED you Chuck what happened again..or better maybe someone can find the original thread?? Ive searched but I can never find anything when searching for an old thread..???? Anyone?

Once again..sorry

Max

BTW...does anyone have a pic of the cowl tag to the car??

[NWYENKO]

My understanding was that Jim Bruns, a local racer, removed the tag and sold it for $25k and he is still racing the body. Might be wrong, a lot of hearsay. Chuck probably knows better. Jim

[BUIZILLA]

as the lugnut turns....

[Chateau Slate 66]

The money they raise for charity is great, but even those auctions get sickening after a while. All the pauses to say "Come on! It's for the kids!" and constantly reminding everyone that there are no auction fees.

Not to take away from the generousity of those that bid, but I prefer someone that gives to their favorite charity without having to do it under the lights of national televison.

[PeteLeathersac]

[ QUOTE ]
Chuck did not remove the trim tag or vin# from the car. Somebody else did that. The car now has the correct vin on the body. There lies the rub!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Chuck,

If that's the case, I apologize...I thought I remembered Chuck explaining that "he was just a 23 year old kid wanting to go racing"..or someyhing to that effect..if I have it wrong, thanks for letting me know Kim. Im probably confused. As usual!! hehe
Maybe I should have just ASKED you Chuck what happened again..or better maybe someone can find the original thread?? Ive searched but I can never find anything when searching for an old thread..???? Anyone?



[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/333002/page/0/fpart/all/vc/1

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
~ Pete

[Kim_Howie]

OOPs!! I was wrong!! Sorry Folks. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif Maybe too many http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Charley Lillard]

What Chuck posted on Camaros.net

"Over 30 years ago I parted out the ORIGINAL/REAL # 27 ZL-1 due to Thayne Porliers chassis shop in Tacoma, WA removing the factory floor pan. I removed the VIN tag and installed it on a junk yard 69 Body, and used the ZL-1 title to have WASH state ownership on the new 69 Canmaro, racecar I built. (Go ahead put me in jail, sue me, what ever on what I did 30 years ago...........that is NOT what this ZL-1 issue is about.)

Around 1982 I sold the multi colored C/SM 69 racecar to Allan Martin Chevrolet in Bremerton,WA. It then passed to subsequent owners including current owner Jim Bruns.
Somehow Bruns communicated with a man in the midwest, who wanted to buy his "ZL-1" VIN tagged car and title. Bruns didnt want to sell the car, but alledgedly sold the VIN tag and title. Not sure who actually recreated/cloned the current #27 ZL-1, but apparently the born with VIN TAG found its way onto the dash location.

Back to the original (butchered floor) 69 ZL-1 body with original TRIM TAG. I sold/gave (cant remember 30 years ago) Body to man by the name of John Carmondy (spelling) in North Seattle area. IMHO this body with hidden vin and trim tag was never used to recreate the current #27. The current # 27 has been inspected behind heater plenum and doesnt have the #27 ZL-1 VIN............There is no proof or evidence of what happened to original body!!!!!!!!!!!!

BOTTOM LINE is current #27 that is being called a rebodied car, DOES NOT have one born with part OTHER than VIN TAG...............
Every part on the recreated #27 was either imported from another 69 Camaro or possibly N.O.S. parts........

I can not prove above statements...........these are my conclusions based on what I did and/or believe to be the truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[clopo]

I do not want to change the subject , but obviously ILUV69S does not have anyone in his or her family with Alzheimers. Trust me it is not a JOKE

[shor]

good point.
i'm sure one of the mods can delete that part out the post.

[JChlupsa]

[ QUOTE ]
I do not want to change the subject , but obviously ILUV69S does not have anyone in his or her family with Alzheimers. Trust me it is not a JOKE

[/ QUOTE ]


You are correct and its been removed. Mahalo for pointing it out

[CamarosRus]

My newest comments are in post 87 at this thread...........


http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?p=1142310&posted=1#post1142310

[Denis]

I was at the auction. Craig Jackson did not come out and say the ZL1 was a rebody. Rather, he explained that the car had been tubbed and was rebuilt/restored using "parts from other cars" and went on to say that this sort of thing happens to many cars.

[sYc]

[ QUOTE ]
I was at the auction. Craig Jackson did not come out and say the ZL1 was a rebody. Rather, he explained that the car had been tubbed and was rebuilt/restored using "parts from other cars" and went on to say that this sort of thing happens to many cars.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hum....

[CamarosRus]

NW YENKO, Interested to know your source on that $25K selling price. Hard to believe that much, but I have no info on any price that Jim B received from mid west CLONERS............

FYI, I sold complete running C/SM drag car for $8500!!!!!!
to Allan Martin Chevrolet

[iluv69s]

So it is a re-body of a re-body????...wwwoooowww....

..and sorry for the not so politically correct saying...If I hurt any feelings, it sure was not my intention...

[NWYENKO]

Again, as I said, hearsay. When I was racing at Bremerton in the early 90's that was the # that was being bantered around. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif Jim

[musclecarjohn]

As I've stated before,if Reggie's involved,you can bet your bottom dollar something's fishy because that's just how he rolls...and he has operated that way for years.You don't get a reputation like his for nothing...
Another year,another black eye for Barrett-Jackson and all involved. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif

[WILMASBOYL78]

The only thing that would make this better, is if it were a re-bodied L89 Nova....then we'd have something to talk about http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[kwhizz]

[ QUOTE ]
The only thing that would make this better, is if it were a re-bodied L89 Nova....then we'd have something to talk about http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


"Or" any L89 Nova........

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif

[Smokey]

So why doesn't anyone ever get cold cocked at the BJ shows??? I mean...didn't Boyd or someone in the hotrod world get decked a time or two?? ?

[Johnny Horsepower]

I was there, as usual (10 strait years), and watched the ZL1 live.
They were clear that it was a rebody on all 3 Holub cars.
It was painfully obvious how long they took as well as the other BS...

BJ is fun to see old friends, cool cars, great artwork etc, warm weather (usually), beautiful women and have a cocktail or 6.

It is clear that the "no reserve" has made for a very poor selection of cars and eliminated its "barometer status"

My biggest complaint is that they don;t have bidder's only upscale bathrooms anymore............. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

John

PS Mecum and Russo for good cars and less BS.....BUT IT IS STILL BUYER BEWARE!!!

[68CamSS]

What's the difference between a rebody and a retag-car? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[SSjeff427]

I realize that I do not have a dog in this hunt.
I also realize that I am a small fry in this big picture.
I also realize that no one here has any reason to take anything I say as meaningful, informed, educated or sane.
BUT, watching this ZL1 deal live, reviewing it on my DVR and watching the youtube replays and talking with numerous friends in my small circle of collectors (Mopar and Ford guys who have no dog in the hunt either), we are all not only disturbed but realize that this can't be the only incident like this. You are not going to convince me there hasn't been shill bidding and buy backs going on to keep up the prices and hype of this "NO RESERVE" circus going.

I would imagine that the average JOE who watched his car hammered in less that 90 seconds and got the experience of losing his ass on live TV, just loved watching Craig Jackson reach out to the auctioneer who after giving "fair warning" last call, I am going to ............ Grab him and say not yet!

You better be in the inner sanctum of that zoo, or you are asking to get exactly what most those folks got in this economy. A lesson in market correction.

[Xplantdad]

John...were you wearing a black Nickey Tshirt on Saturday? I think I saw you http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[akcamaro]

[ QUOTE ]
I was at the auction. Craig Jackson did not come out and say the ZL1 was a rebody. Rather, he explained that the car had been tubbed and was rebuilt/restored using "parts from other cars" and went on to say that this sort of thing happens to many cars.

[/ QUOTE ]
I was there also, and I would agree with you. The impression I got from C. J.'s statement was that the car was back-halved, not re-bodied.
I took 600 pictures between BJ, Pavillions, and Russell and Steel. I'm working on getting them all over onto photobucket.
Here are my pix of the ZL1.
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l144/upconcerts/BarrettJackson09/other%20GM/BarrettJackson09057.jpg

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l144/upconcerts/BarrettJackson09/other%20GM/BarrettJackson09133.jpg

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l144/upconcerts/BarrettJackson09/other%20GM/BarrettJackson09209.jpg

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l144/upconcerts/BarrettJackson09/other%20GM/BarrettJackson09023.jpg

[akcamaro]

And I'm not so sure on the authenticity of this one either.

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l144/upconcerts/BarrettJackson09/other%20GM/BarrettJackson09299.jpg

[COPO 70 RS/Z28]

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l144/upconcerts/BarrettJackson09/other%20GM/BarrettJackson09057.jpg

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>1) I bought #27 ZL-1 from Dick Tutino (ser mgr at Alan Green Chev in Seattle(Burien), WA
around 1976. I would have been approx 29 years old.
Car had been raced from Day 1 as Super Stock. When unsucessful in S/S Dick changed car to B/MP class. I knew nothing of ZL-1 engine internals. When I bought car it had Tunnel Ram with 2 Holly 4500's. Also had broken Chrysler 4 spd and DANA 60 Differential. (conclusion: born with carb, intake, T-400, 12 Bolt MISSING IN ACTION!!!)

2) Car had NO roll bar, no subframe connectors, no altered wheel tubs. As I wanted to participate with the fledgling NorthWest Pro-Stock cars, NHRA mandated a roll cage. As well car sorely needed larger tires and new wheels tubs.
#27 went to Tacoma, WA chassis shop owned by Thayne Porlier. Porlier was instructed that car was to remain NHRA legal for Mod/Prod and factory steel floors had to remain.
For reasons I never learned, Porlier removed most/much of the factory floor, fabricated a new rear frame, roll cage, etc etc.
I was very upset with his work, would not pay the bill, and he impounded the car from his shop until I paid. Cant remember time frame, but this episode wound up in court with the likes of Al Swindahl (deceased chassis builder) and others as my expert witnesses. Jerry Valentine (well known NHRA tech director) may have been involved and surely must remember.............
Court awarded me car back, I did not have to pay the bill, and cant remember if I got much if anything in $$$ damages.

3) It was at this point I parted out #27. </pre><hr />

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?p=1142310&amp;posted=1#post1142310

Man, Looks like the sign left some stuff out??

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

[rare4k]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[Dave Rifkin]

This may have been covered before but, if the chassis shop removed a good portion of the trunk floor by mistake, you tok them to court and won the car back without having to pay the chassis shop bill, why not just have the floorpans repaired opposed to parting the car out?

Was it at a time where these were just old cars and not that valuable or were there other reasons that made parting the car out the more desirable route to take?

[sYc]

As with instant replay in sports, it is amazing what replaying something, even slowing it down, can show. If it were not for today's technology and the ability to record, most of what we are discussing would ahve been lost. I would imagine CJ is wishing for once he had not got so much on air time.

After watching the whole thing several times, the part that sickens me the most has to be when CJ stops the hammer, then turns and smiles/winks at Reggie and GH. That speaks volumes to be about the character, or lack of it, of CJ.

[Mr70]

I think it's pretty dispicable that they &amp; others keep bringing up the.."C'mon it's for the children" charity statement.
Of course it's appreciated,but when you try to achieve that by using underhanded tactics like CJ &amp; his crew do to raise that money,it completely diminishes the spirit of which it should be donated in the first place.
It's as if they look like that if they keep reminding everyone about charity,even they themselves will begin to believe it.
Quit hiding behind charity,and use it to justify what you really do,and then take credit for it Craig..

[Hylton]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's pretty discpicle that they &amp; others keep bringing up the.."it's for the children" charity statement.
Of course it's appreciated,but when you try to justify that with some of the underhanded tactics CJ &amp; his crew do to raise that money for charity,it completely diminishes the spirit of which it should be donated in the first place.
It's almost as if they feel that if they broadcast it over &amp; over,even they themselves will begin to believe it.
Quit hiding behind charity Craig..

[/ QUOTE ]


I'd like to see him say - "whatever it sells for, BJ will match it". He's probably thinking about what a great person he is by not charging the 20% commish.

[CamarosRus]

Dave and others, As you can READ the B/J sign above left out my complete 2nd ownership of the car.

Dick Tutino had nothing to do with Chassis shop fiasco, court case or parting car out........

I cant explain my actions now.....but having floor replaced with another floor never occurred to me. This was the late 70's and people werent restoring 69 Camaros.......
Aftermarket floors were not available, and taking one from wrecked 69' wasnt a thought.......regrettably!!!!!!!

[1railman]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's pretty dispicable that they &amp; others keep bringing up the.."C'mon it's for the children" charity statement.
Of course it's appreciated,but when you try to achieve that by using underhanded tactics like CJ &amp; his crew do to raise that money,it completely diminishes the spirit of which it should be donated in the first place.
It's as if they look like that if they keep reminding everyone about charity,even they themselves will begin to believe it.
Quit hiding behind charity,and use it to justify what you really do,and then take credit for it Craig..

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, Madoff did wonders for charity too.

[Jim Ferron]

Does anybody know the guy who bought the car at B-J?

Let's at least realize that B-J disclosed the car as a rebody on their web-site, on the auction block and the owner disclosed it on a sign that was displayed in front of the car.

Yes the history isn't quoted correctly , but in the end. Wasn't there enough info plainly displayed to make even the most 'ignorant' buyer at least a bit skeptical?

AND this fella didn't pay anywhere NEAR the going rate for a ZL-1 with a clear, CLEAN, provanance?

Maybe the buyer is thrilled with his buy?

As far as the shill bidding, I'm a car dealer by trade. I go to wholesale auctions weekly. Shill bidding is as common as a cup of bad coffee.It happens on , I'd bet 70% of all cars thru a wholesale auction. If the seller won't sell the car under, say, $10,000 , the auctioneer runs the car there [$9900] with or without a 'real' bidder. Next 'real' bid buys the car. [these are NOT 'no reserve' auctions..]

Yeah if I was the buyer I'd be pissed off Reggie was a seemingly obvious shill for the owner...but that's the way auctions are. It can be a really lousy place to buy a car...wholesale or retail.

I personally wouldn't get NEAR a collector car at an auction without superior knowledge about a car...

Maybe the buyer knew exactly what he was doing...he paid the premium to be on TV.

I wouldn't be so anxious to fight his battle.

[x Baldwin Motion]

[ QUOTE ]
What's the difference between a rebody and a retag-car? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Rebody; Putting a different body around a tag or tags.

ReTag; Installing tag or tags on a body they don't belong on.

Any difference?

[StealthBird]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's pretty dispicable that they &amp; others keep bringing up the.."C'mon it's for the children" charity statement.
Of course it's appreciated,but when you try to achieve that by using underhanded tactics like CJ &amp; his crew do to raise that money,it completely diminishes the spirit of which it should be donated in the first place.
It's as if they look like that if they keep reminding everyone about charity,even they themselves will begin to believe it.
Quit hiding behind charity,and use it to justify what you really do,and then take credit for it Craig..

[/ QUOTE ]

Did anyone catch the unbelievable comment that was made when the Tony Stewart car was up on the block? The auctioneer introduced Darryl Gwynn, and he said, "Darryl, we love ya, we appreciate ya, we thank you, we thank God for you, and as much as I hate to say it, I thank God for the accident you had."

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

I knew what he meant, but what a horrible way to say it.

[showyourauto]

This car isn't a rebody, it is a complete reconstruction.

The best definition of a rebody I have ever read comes from the 4th edition of SAAC World Registry of Cobras and GT40's (page 30). "Original/Rebodied A car having more than 50% of its original substructure or bodywork replaced, but not the main frame tubes or pieces carrying the serial stampings."

According to SAAC, an Air Car is a car built from scratch, starting out with no pieces carrying the original serial number stampings, and with no legitimate paperwork. An Air car has no claim to that VIN, either by legal ownership of major parts or paperwork.

A Reconstruction on the other hand, is a car that has been rebuilt substantially to original specifications (including replacement of main substructure or frame) but where some part of the original car existed prior to rebuild; also documentation paperwork exists (i.e. traceable bill of sale, title, registration, etc.).

If this ZL1 were a Shelby, it would likely be considered an "Air Car" or a "Reconstruction" depending on the proof of VIN plate and paperwork. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

[Jim Ferron]

I was at Carlisle spring auction..It was spring of 2007.

Guy was selling a ZL-1 'clone' Gorgeous car.

It was touted as having one of the original 69 Numbered blocks in the car.

It didn't sell as I remember...did $110,000.

Anyone know the car?

Anyway, what is worth more..a real ZL-1 vin tag or a real VINed ZL-1 engine [assuming the original bodies are both crushed and gone..]

Figure a gorgeous restored 'clone' body is worth less than $100,000.

What do want to add the real vin or the real engine....

[showyourauto]

[ QUOTE ]

Anyway, what is worth more..a real ZL-1 vin tag or a real VINed ZL-1 engine [assuming the original bodies are both crushed and gone..]

The "clone" with the real ZL-1 motor, IMHO is an Air Car with no legit claim to the VIN, the person with the VIN Tag, Title, and documentation for the original ZL-1 owns a Reconstruction- worth more than a clone but certainly much less than an original restored car.

Figure a gorgeous restored 'clone' body is worth less than $100,000.

What do want to add the real vin or the real engine....

[/ QUOTE ]

[COPO 70 RS/Z28]

[ QUOTE ]

What do want to add the real vin or the real engine....

[/ QUOTE ]

An honest representation thats all http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[showyourauto]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

What do want to add the real vin or the real engine....

[/ QUOTE ]

An honest representation thats all http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

AMEN Carl! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

[Steve Shauger]

[ QUOTE ]
As far as the shill bidding, I'm a car dealer by trade. I go to wholesale auctions weekly. Shill bidding is as common as a cup of bad coffee.It happens on , I'd bet 70% of all cars thru a wholesale auction. If the seller won't sell the car under, say, $10,000 , the auctioneer runs the car there [$9900] with or without a 'real' bidder. Next 'real' bid buys the car. [these are NOT 'no reserve' auctions..]

Yeah if I was the buyer I'd be pissed off Reggie was a seemingly obvious shill for the owner...but that's the way auctions are. It can be a really lousy place to buy a car...wholesale or retail.

I personally wouldn't get NEAR a collector car at an auction without superior knowledge about a car...

Maybe the buyer knew exactly what he was doing...he paid the premium to be on TV.



[/ QUOTE ]


Shill bidding is part of the sellers agreement at Russo Steele Reserve Auction as explained by Drew last Feb:


"Advancement of Bidding: RS retains the right to advance the bidding up to, but not in excess of, the Reserve, as agent for the Seller. RS further reserves the right, at its sole discretion, to Sell the Vehicle at a high bid price less than that price identified as the “Reserve Price,” provided that RS nets the Seller the specified reserve amount less all-applicable sales commissions and fees.


This clause is clearly stated in Russo and Steele’s Consignment Agreement under section 8, d.

Drew Alcazar"

[LS6 RAT]

Paceme,

That is exactly what happened with my '69 L78 Camaro SS convertible that I consigned with Russo &amp; Steele in their inaugural event at the Marriot Hotel in Monterey in 2001. I set the reserve at $70K, the high bid went to $71K, Drew called it sold, even though with their commission taken out the net amount to me as owner would be less than I set the reserve at. Russo &amp; Steele forego their sellers fee and collected only the buyers portion. I netted $70,200 to me from that auction.

[Jim Ferron]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

What do want to add the real vin or the real engine....

[/ QUOTE ]

An honest representation thats all http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Remember when 'numbers matching' meant something... Now you re-stamp a block and it's numbers matching...and it is, Certainly the buyer is lead to believe it was the original 'born with' engine..which it is not.

'born with' means what 'numbers matching' used to mean...

But just look at the Camaro in the cars for sale section ..Posters here had to inform the seller it had a obvious re-pop trim tag..[pretty obvious too] Poor seller said he knew nothing..and I'd bet he is being honest...If he knew it was a re-pop certainly he wouldn't post a pic of it here.

So he was being honest as far as he could tell.

Ignorance just perpertuates falsehoods..

And don't even start me on the sellers who don't know what 'survivor' means...

[showyourauto]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As far as the shill bidding, I'm a car dealer by trade. I go to wholesale auctions weekly. Shill bidding is as common as a cup of bad coffee.It happens on , I'd bet 70% of all cars thru a wholesale auction. If the seller won't sell the car under, say, $10,000 , the auctioneer runs the car there [$9900] with or without a 'real' bidder. Next 'real' bid buys the car. [these are NOT 'no reserve' auctions..]

Yeah if I was the buyer I'd be pissed off Reggie was a seemingly obvious shill for the owner...but that's the way auctions are. It can be a really lousy place to buy a car...wholesale or retail.

I personally wouldn't get NEAR a collector car at an auction without superior knowledge about a car...

Maybe the buyer knew exactly what he was doing...he paid the premium to be on TV.



[/ QUOTE ]


Shill bidding is part of the sellers agreement at Russo Steele Reserve Auction as explained by Drew last Feb:


"Advancement of Bidding: RS retains the right to advance the bidding up to, but not in excess of, the Reserve, as agent for the Seller. RS further reserves the right, at its sole discretion, to Sell the Vehicle at a high bid price less than that price identified as the “Reserve Price,” provided that RS nets the Seller the specified reserve amount less all-applicable sales commissions and fees.


This clause is clearly stated in Russo and Steele’s Consignment Agreement under section 8, d.

Drew Alcazar"

[/ QUOTE ]

Mecum and others have the same type of language in their contracts, allowing the owner of a car bid on their own vehicle up to the reserve. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif

[Johnny Horsepower]

[ QUOTE ]

Paceme,

That is exactly what happened with my '69 L78 Camaro SS convertible that I consigned with Russo &amp; Steele in their inaugural event at the Marriot Hotel in Monterey in 2001. I set the reserve at $70K, the high bid went to $71K, Drew called it sold, even though with their commission taken out the net amount to me as owner would be less than I set the reserve at. Russo &amp; Steele forego their sellers fee and collected only the buyers portion. I netted $70,200 to me from that auction.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have not sold a car at auction (bought a couple), but I was always under the impression , that reserve price that you set was before fees. Sounds like Drew treated you right.

Anyone know for sure. Reserve price= before ar after fees?
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
JG

[Johnny Horsepower]

[ QUOTE ]
John...were you wearing a black Nickey Tshirt on Saturday? I think I saw you http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

That was I http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif
you should of grabbed me Bruce, I would have had a libation with you.

John http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Seattle Sam]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As far as the shill bidding, I'm a car dealer by trade. I go to wholesale auctions weekly. Shill bidding is as common as a cup of bad coffee.It happens on , I'd bet 70% of all cars thru a wholesale auction. If the seller won't sell the car under, say, $10,000 , the auctioneer runs the car there [$9900] with or without a 'real' bidder. Next 'real' bid buys the car. [these are NOT 'no reserve' auctions..]

Yeah if I was the buyer I'd be pissed off Reggie was a seemingly obvious shill for the owner...but that's the way auctions are. It can be a really lousy place to buy a car...wholesale or retail.

I personally wouldn't get NEAR a collector car at an auction without superior knowledge about a car...

Maybe the buyer knew exactly what he was doing...he paid the premium to be on TV.



[/ QUOTE ]


Shill bidding is part of the sellers agreement at Russo Steele Reserve Auction as explained by Drew last Feb:


"Advancement of Bidding: RS retains the right to advance the bidding up to, but not in excess of, the Reserve, as agent for the Seller. RS further reserves the right, at its sole discretion, to Sell the Vehicle at a high bid price less than that price identified as the “Reserve Price,” provided that RS nets the Seller the specified reserve amount less all-applicable sales commissions and fees.


This clause is clearly stated in Russo and Steele’s Consignment Agreement under section 8, d.

Drew Alcazar"

[/ QUOTE ]

Mecum and others have the same type of language in their contracts, allowing the owner of a car bid on their own vehicle up to the reserve. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see the harm in this, it's not going to sell if it fails to meet reserve, and it takes a real buyer (willing to pay what he bids) to get it past reserve. You might have a willing buyer sitting at $25,000 below reserve, nobody to bid against him, who is also willing to pay the reserve price? You wouldn't have a sale if they didn't push the bid to the reserve. If the guy at $25K below is not willing to pay the reserve price then it doesn't sell. Tell me who gets hurt?

[Hylton]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see the harm in this, it's not going to sell if it fails to meet reserve, and it takes a real buyer (willing to pay what he bids) to get it past reserve. You might have a willing buyer sitting at $25,000 below reserve, nobody to bid against him, who is also willing to pay the reserve price? You wouldn't have a sale if they didn't push the bid to the reserve. If the guy at $25K below is not willing to pay the reserve price then it doesn't sell. Tell me who gets hurt?

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. It's not like the interested party can possibly pick up the car for less at the auction.

[Xplantdad]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
John...were you wearing a black Nickey Tshirt on Saturday? I think I saw you http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

That was I http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif
you should of grabbed me Bruce, I would have had a libation with you.

John http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

You looked like you were on a mission...

You were over by the Ford drifting area...and walking pretty quicly the other way. It's all good... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Steve Shauger]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As far as the shill bidding, I'm a car dealer by trade. I go to wholesale auctions weekly. Shill bidding is as common as a cup of bad coffee.It happens on , I'd bet 70% of all cars thru a wholesale auction. If the seller won't sell the car under, say, $10,000 , the auctioneer runs the car there [$9900] with or without a 'real' bidder. Next 'real' bid buys the car. [these are NOT 'no reserve' auctions..]

Yeah if I was the buyer I'd be pissed off Reggie was a seemingly obvious shill for the owner...but that's the way auctions are. It can be a really lousy place to buy a car...wholesale or retail.

I personally wouldn't get NEAR a collector car at an auction without superior knowledge about a car...

Maybe the buyer knew exactly what he was doing...he paid the premium to be on TV.



[/ QUOTE ]


Shill bidding is part of the sellers agreement at Russo Steele Reserve Auction as explained by Drew last Feb:


"Advancement of Bidding: RS retains the right to advance the bidding up to, but not in excess of, the Reserve, as agent for the Seller. RS further reserves the right, at its sole discretion, to Sell the Vehicle at a high bid price less than that price identified as the “Reserve Price,” provided that RS nets the Seller the specified reserve amount less all-applicable sales commissions and fees.


This clause is clearly stated in Russo and Steele’s Consignment Agreement under section 8, d.

Drew Alcazar"

[/ QUOTE ]

Mecum and others have the same type of language in their contracts, allowing the owner of a car bid on their own vehicle up to the reserve. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see the harm in this, it's not going to sell if it fails to meet reserve, and it takes a real buyer (willing to pay what he bids) to get it past reserve. You might have a willing buyer sitting at $25,000 below reserve, nobody to bid against him, who is also willing to pay the reserve price? You wouldn't have a sale if they didn't push the bid to the reserve. If the guy at $25K below is not willing to pay the reserve price then it doesn't sell. Tell me who gets hurt?

[/ QUOTE ]

To me it artificially inflates the price a real bidder is willing to spend and what the real market price of the car(not what the seller wants). If I'm at an auction I don't want to bid against myself. If a car doesn't legitimately meet reserve then possibly something could be negotiated by both buyer&amp; seller once it is off the block.

[Steve Shauger]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't see the harm in this, it's not going to sell if it fails to meet reserve, and it takes a real buyer (willing to pay what he bids) to get it past reserve. You might have a willing buyer sitting at $25,000 below reserve, nobody to bid against him, who is also willing to pay the reserve price? You wouldn't have a sale if they didn't push the bid to the reserve. If the guy at $25K below is not willing to pay the reserve price then it doesn't sell. Tell me who gets hurt?

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. It's not like the interested party can possibly pick up the car for less at the auction.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why not it happens all the time at reserve auctions. Once off the block the buyer,seller and auction house work out a compromise.

[camarojoe]

[ QUOTE ]
To me it artificially inflates the price a real bidder is willing to spend and what the real market price of the car(not what the seller wants). If I'm at an auction I don't want to bid against myself. If a car doesn't legitimately meet reserve then possibly something could be negotiated by both buyer&amp; seller once it is off the block.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, and if you only have one interested party for a car at a way undervalued price at an auction, then you're running a pretty crappy auction. Besides that, the general public sees some car that the seller has set an insanely high reserve on get pushed up to nearly that amount via shill bidding, and then does not sell...they think the car has a value of way more money than it really does, and use it as justification for setting their own rediculous prices. How many times have you heard the line "My price is cheap, did you see what a similar car was bid to at B-J or Russo-Steele, etc.?" Shill bidding at these auctions should not be allowed, encouraged, or endorsed IMO.

[Denis]

"Numbers matching engine" at Barrett-Jackson now means the engine and trans have the same restamps, or the block predates the car.

"Numbers matching car" means all four tires are the same size. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

[showyourauto]

[ QUOTE ]
"Numbers matching engine" at Barrett-Jackson now means the engine and trans have the same restamps, or the block predates the car.

"Numbers matching car" means all four tires are the same size. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank the Corvette sector of the hobby for this one. This born the form effort to continue to maufacture concours topflight and GOLD winners. Restamping has gotten so good, proving the "numbers matching" motor is the original has become an exercise in proving a negative.- Prove that it's NOT a re-stamp and then I've believe it's original. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif

IMHO, in this "new world" the more things that you have to prove the car is the genuine article aside from the engine, the less impact having a replacement block or a re-stamp has on the value of the vehicle. On well documented cars, an original motor becomes the cherry on top rather than the whole cake. Frankly, we all know most muscle cars blew their top before some of us were out of diapers... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

[Steve Shauger]

[ QUOTE ]
"Numbers matching engine" at Barrett-Jackson now means the engine and trans have the same restamps, or the block predates the car.

"Numbers matching car" means all four tires are the same size. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

No, all four tires have matching pressure #'s 32psi. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[SBR]

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[ QUOTE ]
"Numbers matching engine" at Barrett-Jackson now means the engine and trans have the same restamps, or the block predates the car.

"Numbers matching car" means all four tires are the same size. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank the Corvette sector of the hobby for this one. This born the form effort to continue to maufacture concours topflight and GOLD winners. Restamping has gotten so good, proving the "numbers matching" motor is the original has become an exercise in proving a negative.- Prove that it's NOT a re-stamp and then I've believe it's original. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif

IMHO, in this "new world" the more things that you have to prove the car is the genuine article aside from the engine, the less impact having a replacement block or a re-stamp has on the value of the vehicle. On well documented cars, an original motor becomes the cherry on top rather than the whole cake. Frankly, we all know most muscle cars blew their top before some of us were out of diapers... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

[/ QUOTE ] Maybe I am wrong but to blame restamps on Corvette owners/organizations is irresponsible. I know that I have seen plenty of fraud with all types of cars. I blame people who are only in it for the money, not for the love of cars, in other words greed!

[showyourauto]

The Corvette judging bodies have no problem with restamps, because the objective is to bring the car back to dealer showroom condition and originality. Inside the judging world, a disclosed restamp is not a faux pas. It is practice promoted by the mere fact that you cannot achieve an NCRS Top Flight or a Bloomington Gold with an NOM or even a CE block with paperwork to back it up as a legit warranty replacement. Most people I've encountered outside the Corvette judging world look ANY restamping as attempt at fraud. Plainly put, the practice has been fostered and perfected so people can chase trophies. Without that incentive, my judgment is that the practice would be much less prevalent or difficult to detect. The general collector community doesn't value the restamp the same way. They want original so unscrupulous sellers take "numbers matching" and represent it as original. For better or worst that is the state of the union.

[Hylton]

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As far as the shill bidding, I'm a car dealer by trade. I go to wholesale auctions weekly. Shill bidding is as common as a cup of bad coffee.It happens on , I'd bet 70% of all cars thru a wholesale auction. If the seller won't sell the car under, say, $10,000 , the auctioneer runs the car there [$9900] with or without a 'real' bidder. Next 'real' bid buys the car. [these are NOT 'no reserve' auctions..]

Yeah if I was the buyer I'd be pissed off Reggie was a seemingly obvious shill for the owner...but that's the way auctions are. It can be a really lousy place to buy a car...wholesale or retail.

I personally wouldn't get NEAR a collector car at an auction without superior knowledge about a car...

Maybe the buyer knew exactly what he was doing...he paid the premium to be on TV.



[/ QUOTE ]


Shill bidding is part of the sellers agreement at Russo Steele Reserve Auction as explained by Drew last Feb:


"Advancement of Bidding: RS retains the right to advance the bidding up to, but not in excess of, the Reserve, as agent for the Seller. RS further reserves the right, at its sole discretion, to Sell the Vehicle at a high bid price less than that price identified as the “Reserve Price,” provided that RS nets the Seller the specified reserve amount less all-applicable sales commissions and fees.


This clause is clearly stated in Russo and Steele’s Consignment Agreement under section 8, d.

Drew Alcazar"

[/ QUOTE ]

Mecum and others have the same type of language in their contracts, allowing the owner of a car bid on their own vehicle up to the reserve. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see the harm in this, it's not going to sell if it fails to meet reserve, and it takes a real buyer (willing to pay what he bids) to get it past reserve. You might have a willing buyer sitting at $25,000 below reserve, nobody to bid against him, who is also willing to pay the reserve price? You wouldn't have a sale if they didn't push the bid to the reserve. If the guy at $25K below is not willing to pay the reserve price then it doesn't sell. Tell me who gets hurt?

[/ QUOTE ]

To me it artificially inflates the price a real bidder is willing to spend and what the real market price of the car(not what the seller wants). If I'm at an auction I don't want to bid against myself. If a car doesn't legitimately meet reserve then possibly something could be negotiated by both buyer&amp; seller once it is off the block.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see your point and yes, a deal may occur after the auction but the way I see it, you bid on a car with a cieling number in your head regarding how much you are willing to pay. If someone does that, it really doesn't matter if it was shilled up or not.

Besides, do we really believe that these auctions are what truly determines the value of these cars?

[Stuart Adams]

[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
As far as the shill bidding, I'm a car dealer by trade. I go to wholesale auctions weekly. Shill bidding is as common as a cup of bad coffee.It happens on , I'd bet 70% of all cars thru a wholesale auction. If the seller won't sell the car under, say, $10,000 , the auctioneer runs the car there [$9900] with or without a 'real' bidder. Next 'real' bid buys the car. [these are NOT 'no reserve' auctions..]

Yeah if I was the buyer I'd be pissed off Reggie was a seemingly obvious shill for the owner...but that's the way auctions are. It can be a really lousy place to buy a car...wholesale or retail.

I personally wouldn't get NEAR a collector car at an auction without superior knowledge about a car...

Maybe the buyer knew exactly what he was doing...he paid the premium to be on TV.



[/ QUOTE ]


Shill bidding is part of the sellers agreement at Russo Steele Reserve Auction as explained by Drew last Feb:


"Advancement of Bidding: RS retains the right to advance the bidding up to, but not in excess of, the Reserve, as agent for the Seller. RS further reserves the right, at its sole discretion, to Sell the Vehicle at a high bid price less than that price identified as the “Reserve Price,” provided that RS nets the Seller the specified reserve amount less all-applicable sales commissions and fees.


This clause is clearly stated in Russo and Steele’s Consignment Agreement under section 8, d.

Drew Alcazar"

[/ QUOTE ]

Mecum and others have the same type of language in their contracts, allowing the owner of a car bid on their own vehicle up to the reserve. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see the harm in this, it's not going to sell if it fails to meet reserve, and it takes a real buyer (willing to pay what he bids) to get it past reserve. You might have a willing buyer sitting at $25,000 below reserve, nobody to bid against him, who is also willing to pay the reserve price? You wouldn't have a sale if they didn't push the bid to the reserve. If the guy at $25K below is not willing to pay the reserve price then it doesn't sell. Tell me who gets hurt?

[/ QUOTE ]

To me it artificially inflates the price a real bidder is willing to spend and what the real market price of the car(not what the seller wants). If I'm at an auction I don't want to bid against myself. If a car doesn't legitimately meet reserve then possibly something could be negotiated by both buyer&amp; seller once it is off the block.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see your point and yes, a deal may occur after the auction but the way I see it, you bid on a car with a cieling number in your head regarding how much you are willing to pay. If someone does that, it really doesn't matter if it was shilled up or not.

Besides, do we really believe that these auctions are what truly determines the value of these cars?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think BJ has zero to do with setting the prices of cars. People may think that but it's only about bringing in more than you spend, same for all us. It's fun to get together, see all the cars, shoot the breeze, do some charity work - that work's really well for the seller - talk about a super inflated tax deduction. It's a business that has to be about selling other owners cars to other people, period. We can bash, talk, whatever, at the end of the day it is what it is. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/flag.gif This is the most knowledgable place to be, seriously.

[Stuart Adams]

I saw today in the AZ Republic where BJ collected 64 million, a 28% decrease. 30% less value sounds about right overall, some cars more, some less. All but one auction company that week was down. Hopefully all the values will go up in the years to come, then of course we'll say "he paid that much for it" LOL.

[TimG]

"The Corvette judging bodies have no problem with restamps"

This is not true, if engine judges smell a restamp, the engine is busted. Heck, if they don't like the look of an original engine, they bust it. This happens on a regular basis. Some judges estimate the number of broach marks per inch on a pad and will bust an engine for that.
Bottom line is that if the restamp is "typical factory production in appearance" it will pass. This doesn't mean that a restamp is OK, but there is not enough evidence to prove that it is a restamp, some are done very well. Something like being innocent until proven guilty.
Granted, lots of restamps make it though NCRS judging, but if it is an obvious restamp, it won't. As I said, lots of original engines don't make it thought NCRS judging. I've seen it personally with vehicles I know about. The pad has to have the appearance of "typical factory production" if it does with out question meet this criteria, it passes. If it doesn't, it is busted, original or restamp.

[Unreal]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As far as the shill bidding, I'm a car dealer by trade. I go to wholesale auctions weekly. Shill bidding is as common as a cup of bad coffee.It happens on , I'd bet 70% of all cars thru a wholesale auction. If the seller won't sell the car under, say, $10,000 , the auctioneer runs the car there [$9900] with or without a 'real' bidder. Next 'real' bid buys the car. [these are NOT 'no reserve' auctions..]

Yeah if I was the buyer I'd be pissed off Reggie was a seemingly obvious shill for the owner...but that's the way auctions are. It can be a really lousy place to buy a car...wholesale or retail.

I personally wouldn't get NEAR a collector car at an auction without superior knowledge about a car...

Maybe the buyer knew exactly what he was doing...he paid the premium to be on TV.



[/ QUOTE ]


Shill bidding is part of the sellers agreement at Russo Steele Reserve Auction as explained by Drew last Feb:


"Advancement of Bidding: RS retains the right to advance the bidding up to, but not in excess of, the Reserve, as agent for the Seller. RS further reserves the right, at its sole discretion, to Sell the Vehicle at a high bid price less than that price identified as the “Reserve Price,” provided that RS nets the Seller the specified reserve amount less all-applicable sales commissions and fees.


This clause is clearly stated in Russo and Steele’s Consignment Agreement under section 8, d.

Drew Alcazar"

[/ QUOTE ]

Mecum and others have the same type of language in their contracts, allowing the owner of a car bid on their own vehicle up to the reserve. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see the harm in this, it's not going to sell if it fails to meet reserve, and it takes a real buyer (willing to pay what he bids) to get it past reserve. You might have a willing buyer sitting at $25,000 below reserve, nobody to bid against him, who is also willing to pay the reserve price? You wouldn't have a sale if they didn't push the bid to the reserve. If the guy at $25K below is not willing to pay the reserve price then it doesn't sell. Tell me who gets hurt?

[/ QUOTE ]

If that's true, what difference does it make who does the shill bidding, reserve, or not? I guess it's OK for Reggie to bid until it looks like he went a step too far. Then let him retract his last bid.

Maybe someone could talk to ebay about the "automatic bidding" system. Instead of increasing by one tick over the next highest bid, it should automatically move to your high bid.

Like I said in the past, "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen." or, "It's their sandbox, their rules." I'm staying out of the kitchen AND the sandbox!!

[showyourauto]

[ QUOTE ]

"The Corvette judging bodies have no problem with restamps"

This is not true, if engine judges smell a restamp, the engine is busted. Heck, if they don't like the look of an original engine, they bust it. This happens on a regular basis. Some judges estimate the number of broach marks per inch on a pad and will bust an engine for that.
Bottom line is that if the restamp is "typical factory production in appearance" it will pass. This doesn't mean that a restamp is OK, but there is not enough evidence to prove that it is a restamp, some are done very well. Something like being innocent until proven guilty.
Granted, lots of restamps make it though NCRS judging, but if it is an obvious restamp, it won't. As I said, lots of original engines don't make it thought NCRS judging. I've seen it personally with vehicles I know about. The pad has to have the appearance of "typical factory production" if it does with out question meet this criteria, it passes. If it doesn't, it is busted, original or restamp.

[/ QUOTE ]

Points well taken, perhaps it is unfair to assign blame to Corvette Judges for the proliferation of the restamping practice. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif With auction houses and other venues adopting the definition of "numbers matching" to being "typical factory production in appearance" it seems to further encourage restamping as a restoration practice. In fact, even original stampings without owner history to corroborate a drivetrain's origin, one cannot claim "original" with legal certainty. This forces brokers like me to also adopt the lesser standard of "numbers matching" as a descriptor rather than "original". It also puts the import of provenance over the observable traits of a car.

On the matter of "shill bidding" and dealing with the auction environment in general, I wrote a handy little article to turn the enviroment to the individuals advantage called The Art of War (Auction Style) (http://www.showyourauto.com/articles/MCM_ArtofWarAuctionStyle.pdf) Enjoy!