Need advice and info on a 1969 Camaro z10

[garycharlton1960]

Hi everyone I am new to this forum. I am needing some advice and information on the 1969 Camaro z10. For the last several years I have been working for a gentleman maintaining his cars and motorcycles. He has a collection of about 30 cars and 15 motorcycles. Well he passed away recently and his wife has asked me to help her with the shop and to sell some of the cars. One of these cars is a 1969 z10. As far as I know everything is original except someone put headers, an Edelbrock intake and carb. on it. It has the wrong valve covers and wrong air cleaner. Other then that it is all pretty much original. I am wanting first is to find some pictures of a correct OEM engine bay. Before I put the car on the market I want to replace the engine components that are incorrect. I am also wanting to find online someone to appraise the car. Also if any of you happen have any OEM parts I need I will buy theme. Here are a few photos of the car. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/03/full-19838-40794-1.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/03/full-19838-40795-20160314_232343.jpg
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http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/03/full-19838-40798-20160314_233849.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/03/full-19838-40799-20160314_233903.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/03/full-19838-40800-20160314_234502.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/03/full-19838-40801-20160314_234441.jpg

[69VN]

Hi Gary and welcome to the forum. There are many people here that can assist you with proper knowledge and everything you need as far as parts to put that engine compartment back the way it was when it left the factory. Have you located any paperwork or build sheets for the car? It would be a plus!

Sal <<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/biggthumpup.gif

[William]

It’s had at least some restoration work. Front fenders have likely been replaced; ‘Camaro’ ‘SS’ and ‘350’ badging is missing. The D96 fender striping is missing and the rear striping was done incorrectly. Outside rear view mirrors are incorrect. Radio antenna appears to be aftermarket.

In the engine bay photos the car appears to have factory A/C but the seal is missing from the top of the core support. The holes for the seal are not present so it was likely also replaced. The washer bottle and fan are not original. Virtually everything visible on the engine is not original. The engine may not be original.

The interior photo shows special instrumentation but no clock indicating the gauges were added or the dash cluster was replaced. There appears to be some aftermarket button added to the left side of the dash. Console is broken in front of the rear ash tray cover.

All Z10s were built at the Norwood, Ohio plant. There will not be any assembly documentation concealed in the car.

With the possible exception of the engine the deficiencies can be corrected. It is an interesting, nicely optioned Z10.

[garycharlton1960]

Thanks for the input. I don't know when he acquired the car, what condition it was in or what he may have done to it. I did find an inspection receipt with his name and the mileage from 1994. I would like to come across some photos of a correct engine bay. He wasn't too concerned about accuracy because he had no plans of ever selling any of his cars or bikes. He also wouldn't accept that he was dying so he would not discuss with me or his wife about the cars. I'm trying to sort out his '69 Chevelle 2 dr. post SS car to see if it is real or a clone. I don't want to misrepresent anything and I don't want to get clone price for an authentic car. The Z10 is no doubt a Z10, I just want to put it the way it is supposed to be. Then engine should have a partial vin.# I know where they put them on the BBC's but not the SBC's. But that is easy info to find. You seem to have a lot of knowledge on the Z10. I'm sure I will be asking a lot of questions. I am currently on the tail end on restoring a 1958 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham. When I get that out of the shop I will have more time to focus on these cars. Thanks again.

[garycharlton1960]

Thanks for the input and the welcome. I have always used the forums for what ever car or bike I'm building at the time. I am surprised that I didn't come across this forum sooner. You can bet that I will be on here quite a bit for a long time.

[William]

The partial VIN was stamped into the vertical flange on the side of the block by the oil filter. It's as cast, not machined smooth. The stamping can be very faint and difficult to read.

The engine code will be on the machined pad under the alternator; much easier to read. Code for a 350/Turbo is HB; HE for a 350/Powerglide.

[Kurt S]

Bill has an eye for details.
Post up the engine code. That tells a lot.
Originally that was a 729 white houndstooth interior. Changed to black houndstooth.

As I told you via email, I don't see the originality - it's been mucked with. But the bones look good. Prove that it's original drivetrain and that strengthens the value.
http://www.camaros.org/drivetrain.shtml

[Lynn]

You might want to consider just selling all the cars as is. Takes a lot to get one perfect. Special interest cars will bring decent money even when they aren't perfect. Making it perfect will be a labor of love for the new owner. Even with all the things William mentioned, that Z10 is already very close to the point of diminishing returns when it comes to making it better just to be able to sell at a higher price. Someone aching to buy a Z10 will want the car. Like Kurt said, if it has the original drive train, that is what is going to drive the price up more than anything else. If it doesn't have the original engine, you would be throwing money away making it look more original.

[garycharlton1960]

Ok I got a good photo of the Tonawanda stamp. T0414HB. The partial vin I can make out 3 of the numbers. The actual vin is 124379n631752. I can make out some but not all of the numbers. I do believe it is numbers matching. I will try to get it to show up better sometime today. Next to the Tonawanda stamp is 020 that half is under the head. I'm assuming that someone stamped that later indicating .020 over size bore.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/03/full-19838-40886-20160316_032418.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/03/full-19838-40887-20160316_033229.jpg

[Lynn]

Looks like a matching numbers motor, which will certainly help resale value.
If you can see three characters of the partial, that is better than most with the engine installed.

[garycharlton1960]

Lynn, I can make out almost 5 of the numbers, here are the 2 best photos I could get. These new cell phones amaze me. I couldn't get in there and focus, aim, and push the button at the same time. Then I remembered the this phone had voice control on some features. I went into settings and activated the camera voice controls. Never thought I would use that feature but it worked great. Here's the pictures. The cars vin. is 124379N631752 I will let you guys decide .

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/03/full-19838-40919-20160316_154357.jpg
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/03/full-19838-40920-20160316_154402.jpg

[garycharlton1960]

Lynn, you're absolutely right. This car needs a frame up restoration. Its numbers matching and the car well deserves to be done right. I can do that but someone with the passion to build and keep the car will want it just like it sets. It's all there except for a few parts that are fairly easy to obtain. Personally I would love to do this car but I got too much to do as it is.
Now, where does a person start on what to ask? I have been using NADA to get an idea of the value of the cars and motorcycles I work with because their site is easier to navigate through. But they are higher than giraffe ears on most classics.
Also, if you put 1997 Chevrolet Camaro Z10 and go directly to the NADA value from the search engine you get a quote of around $61,000.00. If you go into NADA from their home page and navigate through their site to the value. When you factor in the RS/SS options A/C etc. etc. they throw out a value of $112,000.00.
So where does one start? If I list it in the classifieds here I have to list a price. I don't want to start too high and I don't want to start too low.
I already have one strike against me. Two weeks ago I sold the 2000 Ford Lightning pick-up that my boss had. It had 17,000.0 actual miles on it and was like new. NADA listed high retail at $13,300.00 based on the low miles. I sold the truck for $16,000.00. Two days later someone contacts the bosses wife to buy the truck and when they were told it sold they tell her they would have given $20,000.00 for it. A couple days later an identical truck with 1700.0 miles sells on eBay for $28,500.00 I shot myself in the foot. Anyway so much for my flying finger of fate. I am a mechanic with a passion for old cars and bikes. I'm helping my boss and close friend that is no longer here to see over this stuff. He wasn't gone one day and the vultures were already there. So now, besides turning wrenches I'm playing salesman. Thanks guys for all your input, sorry about the whining and rambling. I'll be posting here on the classifieds and give eBay a shot.

[Jonesy]

Looks like the engine stampings confirm that its the original engine. That's a huge plus.

[Lynn]

Gary:
What's it worth is always a tough call. Really hard to evaluate from pics.
Original engine adds about $10k in my opnion. The big blocks always bring more.

Searched for some tha actually changed hands. Most of them don't disclose the sales price. If one has sold at one of the big auction houses in the last few year, that date may still be available.

Found this one, doesn't say what it actually sold for, but they were asking $69k and it DOES NOT have the original engine:

San Fran Z10 (http://sanfranciscosportscars.com/1969-chevrolet-camaro-rs-ss/)

It would not hurt to upgrade some of the very cheap things. Maybe put on the correct valve covers. And I am a huge fan of the fender pin stripe. It sets the car off well. Z11 &amp; Z10 were the only ones available with both the rally stripes and the fender stripes. If you know someone who can do that job very well without charging a fortune, I would go ahead with that.

What to ask? Personally, I would start at $60k. That is probably on the high side of one that really should get a frame off. You never know. Someone out there may just have to have it, and may not want to consider anything but an original engine car. If after a bit, you get no offers close to that, you can always come down.

[garycharlton1960]

I have been looking through every photo I can find of the Z10 and Z11 cars. In fact I am almost white, orange, and hounds toothed out. I got to look away for a few hours. I swear my burger at lunch came in a hounds tooth wrapper. With every question I get answered through looking at these photos I get 2 more questions to ask. The steering wheel. I have seen Z10's and Z11's with both steering wheels. Most are the 3 spoke with the bow tie. But there are a lot of them with the single bar ss steering wheel, Z10 and Z11. Also I am not seeing any difference in this cars washer bottle than any of the others except ours is more yellowed. And as far as the interior I have found other Z10's with the same interior this car has.
So needless to say I keep looking for answers and seem to find more questions. So every story comes with a conclusion. This car is no doubt a 1969 Z10, it has matching numbers engine. It has incorrect components on the engine. It doesn't have all of it's badges. It may have been wrecked in the front which would explain some of its short comings. I would love to strip this car down and remanufacture everything and make it perfect. But I have more to do right now then I have life to live so this one is going out just like it is. Someone somewhere wants this car and will make it perfect in their own time. So it's for sale. I am going to post it here in the classifieds at $55,000.00 and see how it goes.
You guys have been super and I really appreciate your input and knowledge that you have shared with me here. And you guys did it without all the newbie rhetoric BS that I've gotten on some other forums. I got about 29 other cars to go so I will be bouncing all over this place. BTW anyone looking for a '59 Edsel convertible? Only driven on Sunday's by a little old lady
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/pics/usergals/2016/03/full-19838-40969-59_edsel_conv.jpg
.

[William]

Z10s are not 'mainstream' as Z11s or Z/28s are. I know of only two at auction and not all that recent: N634981 350/auto sold at B-J AZ 2010 for $58,300. N635332 a questionable L78/4-speed for $52,800 at the same auction.

[Kurt S]

IIRC, 9N634981 was restored. There's a big $ between restored and needs work.

My advise on Z10's is always the same:
I'd start with what a comparable RS/SS350 has sold for. Then add something for the Z10. Some people will pay more for the Z10, some won't touch it, so the market is smaller.
I don't like guessing on values, but I still think I'm closer with the values I emailed you.

[MosportGreen66]

I don't know if I'd ever own one but I really the Z10... gave you the sport of the SS with the trim of a Z28. Cool car and good luck!

Dan

[Lynn]

Here in Oklahoma (which apparently is where this car is) there are OSU Cowboys who really really want an orange car. The stripes are enough on the Z10 to get there. I know orange was the Camaro signature color in 69, but I personally don't care for orange at all; probably because I went to OU.

Might be surprised what this car will bring.

Kurt is 100% correct in that it is a small market. But supply and demand still rules, and there aren't a lot of solid, numbers matching Z10's to choose from. I see clapped out rust buckets from time to time, and restored cars, but not much in between.

[Craig_Maiorana]

Just a thought also maybe pick one of the miscellaneous forum sections and list any and all of the cars you have questions on instead of jumping around. It will make it easier for any of the guys that are trying to help you. Then it will all be in one section instead of one car here and another there and so on. Good luck with the collection. Z10's are far and few between like these boys were saying and I can honestly say I have never even seen one in the flesh.

[garycharlton1960]

Thanks guys you all have been a big help. I will keep you posted on any progress. Kurt S. If we sell this Z10 I will pass your info to the new owner to keep you updated on your registry. Lynn, &quot;&quot;BOOMER&quot;------. If you are around OKC, PM me we'll go have lunch and make fun of the people in orange and black. Craig the reason I chose to go to the individual specialty forums is I was afraid that the experts on a certain car might not see it in a miscellaneous forum. WE had decided we are not going to attempt selling them all at once but to pick 2 or 3 at a time. Many of these cars have sat for so long it is going to take some time to get them ready. I will give that a shot though. Thanks again everyone. GaryC.