NorCam (Graeme Browne's) Lemans Blue 1969 Z/28

[Xplantdad]

Bruce,

Submission for a member's ride with a 69 Camaro Z/28 that I recently acquired

In the summer of 2019 was looking for another Camaro and had an ad running in the Cars Wanted Classifieds when I was contacted by Jeff Boone. (Whom I had dealt with a few times before) Jeff had just picked up a low mileage 3 owner Z/28 that he was preparing to sell and we got to talking about it in early September. It didn't take long to see just how nice this car was and Jeff and I managed to put together a deal on the car. The car didn't have a lot for documents other than its owner history, a few titles and an odometer statement from the second owner dating back to 1990. Jeff pulled an NCRS report but as it turns out, this was one of the late cars that didn't have any history on the dealer it was assigned to. Having back traced the owners and visiting with a couple of them, here's what was learned about the car.

The car itself was bought new in the Carolina's by original owner Woodrow Wilson Judge. It was traded in about a year later (1970) to Freddie's Performance Cars in Carlisle PA. Having 9000 miles on the odometer, the car was then bought by its second owner William A. Miller who traded in his 65 Impala SS to acquire the Z/28 from Freddie's. He drove the car and put about 35,000 miles on it over 20 years, and shared a story with Jeff Boone about driving the car from Pennsylvania to Daytona for the races back in 71/72. He owned the car up until 1990 and sold it for $12,000 at the time with 44,746 showing on the clock. The third owner was Wayne Harmon of Pennsylvania who owned the car until his passing in 2014 where the car then transferred ownership to his brother Dennis Harmon of PA.

Wayne had taken really good care of the car while only putting 4122 miles on it over the 24 years he owned it. From looking at old pictures (insert), it appears he also owned a Nova SS and Chevelle SS and really loved his GM cars. It was reported that Wayne had struck a deer with the car in the mid 90's and had the right front fender repaired by Tim Leiphart who owns Hot Rods and Restorations in PA. At that time, Tim had repainted the entire car and really did a great job with the repaint and the stripes. Upon the car being willed to Wayne's brother in 2014, it sat around while his brother Dennis had some routine maintenance performed prior to selling the car in August of 2019. Those routine repairs included having new front springs and shocks installed by a local performance shop near Carlisle, and he also had the original 302 gone through after it sat for many years. A replacement water pump and radiator were installed, the wiper motor was changed out and most of the original parts were kept with the car including the original radiator w/ UH tag, front springs and the wiper motor. In fact, the front springs were not in terrible shape and still have their factory paper tags intact so I may put those back on the car. The original radiator has since been re-cored, and Jeff Boone also installed a nicely restored DZ4053 carb onto the DZ302. Over the winter months, I plan on correcting a few other things like a service dated water pump that was installed, and hanging new exhaust under the car.

Since receiving the car and completely going through it, I was delighted to find it still wears its original front brake calipers, original rotors and has the 1177 rear drums which were all within mfg. spec. The original engine runs great, the factory M20 transmission shifts smoothly, and the rear BU diff runs nice and quiet. The car still wears a matching set of Sept dated YH wheels, and Jeff set the car up with some Goodyear wide treads before the sale was completed. I drove the car after it arrived today and aside from the bias ply tires, it one terrific old muscle car with a ton of originality throughout. My plans are to clean the underside and suspension and leave it much as it appears today. I will correct any irregularities in the serviced belts and hoses and will check all the fasteners while installing a few other odds and ends that are missing under the hood (lift brackets, original fasteners and such). A really great car that has a ton of things going for it, and one that is super clean and rust free throughout.

I love the fact the car wears all of its original panels, has all factory original floors, a super clean original interior and one of the cleanest firewalls I have seen in years. The original trunk paint & factory spare are intact, and the original PTB firewall stamps are clear and visible on both sides. A great specimen that is pretty much unmolested other than 1 repaint and a few service items. Think I'll be keeping this one for many years to come. Special thanks to Jeff Boone.

Graeme Browne
Calgary, AB


os7nIx3JSJQ




https://i.ibb.co/0FscggF/IMG-6923.jpg

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https://i.ibb.co/L0wdq3x/Deck-Stamp-Engine.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/74FGts4/018c.jpg

[Xplantdad]

And the rest of the photos!






https://i.ibb.co/pxLPMcr/022.jpg

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https://i.ibb.co/k9mMgGf/Stamp-Diff.jpg

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[NorCam]

Thank you for the thread and for posting the pictures Bruce. You do a great job with these threads and your contributions are very much appreciated. :youguysrock:

I plan on going through the car again today to identify all the bolt head markings and check further to see if I need to address anything other than what was noted above. Plans are to keep it mostly original and dress it with a few day 2 bolt on items including some vintage Cragar headers, a restored set of vintage Lakewood traction bars, and a set of Torque Thrusts with some Wide Oval Radials. The original YH wheels and tires will be stored away as will the original smog system and the factory exhaust manifolds. The car is a true gem, but will need some cleaning and detailing of the lower body and suspension where previous owners attempted to dress things to a limited degree. I don't think it will take much to revive it back towards being an all factory original car below the body lines and I will post more pictures of the car as I progress.

As an aside, a set of NOS door edge guards and NOS wheel opening moldings were added to the car by the third owners brother. Those trim parts will stay intact as I like the exterior trim as presented on the car.

I'm now attempting to track down the original owner and I have an associate in the US doing some title search work to see if the history of the cars first sale or original title exists as reported to me. The cars integrity truly speaks for itself and I was pleasantly surprised to see just how much of it remains original and untouched. With winter knocking on the door now, I have lots of time to go through the car and discover more about it. I will share things as I go through the process.

Cheers...Graeme

[Salvatore]

Great car GB. Booney is a good dude!

[67 Nova Boy]

Great car GB. Booney is a good dude!

X2 For Graeme and Jeff. Oh, and the Z of course!

Dave
67 Nova Boy

[Steve Shauger]

Congratulations! Great car and thanks for sharing the detailed history of this fantastic car.:beers:

[70LT1Z28]

very nice 69 z28 Graeme.

[cook_dw]

Would you care to clean off the diff stamp a little further to the left of the BU. Curious if it has a peened “C”. Thanks & congrats.

[Ryan1969Chevelle]

Wow great Camaro!!!

I can’t wait to see the detailing on this great canvas!!

Ryan W31

[GrumpyJeff]

WOW!!! looks like a Keeper ?!?!

[rlw68]

I'm now attempting to track down the original owner and I have an associate in the US doing some title search work to see if the history of the cars first sale or original title exists as reported to me.
Cheers...Graeme

The black stripes on Lemans blue looks fantastic ! Do you know if this originally sold in North Carolina ?

:biggthumpup:

[mike1971]

Looks great Graeme! Keep us posted!

[x77-69z28]

Beautiful survivor Graeme! Super impressed.
Buddy

[Damien]

Great find. Love a survivor! Look forward to following along.

[NorCam]

The black stripes on Lemans blue looks fantastic ! Do you know if this originally sold in North Carolina ?

:biggthumpup:

Hello Rob,

It's not known what dealer it came out of originally, but it was reported to be a North Carolina car? The NCRS report came back with no dealer information available for this VIN. I also checked with GM Vintage Canada which came back as negative. Ownership from 1970 onwards was Pennsylvania based with all subsequent owners known.

Of course I'd love to learn more about where the car was originally sold and titled. I'm trying to look into that now and have another person digging as well. Do you know or recognize the car from somewhere?

[NorCam]

WOW!!! looks like a Keeper ?!?!

LOL...Like I ever keep anything. :no:

We'll see how long I can hang onto this one. As much as I love these cars and the hunt, I've always enjoyed being a seller as well. I call it a Compulsive "Non Possessive" Disorder.

I'm really trying though. Maybe this one will become a keeper? :dunno:

[Zedder]

Nice car!

[KenMaisano]

Congrats! what a great car. I am not a fan of vinyl tops, but I have to say, with your color combo it looks great.

[markinnaples]

Beautiful Z.

Do you happen to know the website address for searching GM of Canada records, or is that something that you have to send in to the regular GM VIN search?

[NorCam]

Beautiful Z.

Do you happen to know the website address for searching GM of Canada records, or is that something that you have to send in to the regular GM VIN search?

Mark...it's Vintage Vehicle Services in Oshawa Ontario, They have the microfiche records for all Canadian sold cars and Canadian Export cars. If you think you have a CDN car you can request a search. If it's a Canadian car they will have docs and charge a fee for this service. If your car is US made and it doesn't return any data, the fee is $16.95 for the search. I only checked this car because the NCRS came up empty and it was worth a shot in case it was originally a Canadian car. It wasn't but I didn't expect it would be. Here's a link to their website where everything is well explained.

https://www.vintagevehicleservices.com/

[NorCam]

I went through a few things on the car today and unpacked some of the original parts that came in the trunk. First off is the smog system. Everything is in great shape and the pump is dated October 20 (293rd Day) as per the factory stamp. It has the correct 3932458DA deep groove pulley with the raised stamp outlined as per factory. Smog rails are original and the diverter retains the original GF ink stamp on it. Interestingly, it also has the wire reinforcement on it. Weird for a late date is it not?

I think the ribbed hoses are both original and the Wittek tower clamps look original, but I have not cleaned them to check the dates as of yet. I'm thinking the check valves are also correct but need to look for the part numbers when I get a chance to clean them up with some soap and water. It also has the correct elbow and all of the correct RBW bolts intact as well. I'll need to find original mounting brackets for this kit and once cleaned, I'll put it away with the original smog manifolds for future recall and use if or when needed. All in all some nice original parts that came with the car.

https://i.ibb.co/PY3GCpW/IMG-6997.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/JkrxVqD/IMG-7010.jpg
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https://i.ibb.co/4JfmcKs/IMG-6995.jpg

[mike1971]

I thought the Diverter ink stamp was changed to a sticker on the late cars...����*♂️
I could be wrong but my 9E car had the sticker instead of the ink Graeme..

[NorCam]

Here's a shot of the original radiator that came with the car. Jeff had sent it out to be re-cored before he shipped the car and then packed it away within the trunk. It got the typical rad shop paint job even when he asked for them not to paint it, so I'll strip the tanks and paint it correctly before installing it over the winter months. The UH tag was kept aside so it didn't get lost and I'll be sure to snag some better pictures as it goes back into the car real soon. At the same time, I'll install a rebuilt 692 water pump which will correct 2 of the things I need to do in the engine bay. The CB tank is also dated J for October.

https://i.ibb.co/4spDSc6/019e.jpg

I snuck my camera in behind the radiator today to check out the front of the clutch fan. I can only tell you I was real happy to find it was as clean as the rest of the car and clearly showed the original CV ink stamps and dating from Eaton. This will be gently preserved when the radiator and water pump go back into the car. August 21 of 1969 dating.

https://i.ibb.co/z58WTsQ/IMG-7039.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/z20PmLj/IMG-7040.jpg

[NorCam]

Took some pictures of the date codes on the LOF issued glass today as well. All original glass is intact with date codes matching up nicely. The front windshield and all side glass is dated YV (October) while the back glass is dated AV (September). Nice to see it's all original and in great shape with no scratches to be seen. Another indication that this car was very well cared for.

https://i.ibb.co/hH4Kw9z/IMG-7005.jpg

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[NorCam]

I thought the Diverter ink stamp was changed to a sticker on the late cars...����*♂️
I could be wrong but my 9E car had the sticker instead of the ink Graeme..

I'm not sure when or how the dates and GF stamping vs decal changed Mike. Being a late car built in the first week of November of 69, I have been told by multiple sources that a lot of parts were scavenged from everywhere to get the cars completed prior to the plant retooling for the second generation. The pump was dated 293'rd day, and perhaps this was an early diverter valve that was pulled from older stock for use on a late car. I believe the reinforcing wire was an early thing was it not?

Maybe I'll check with Bill Hodel to see what he has to offer. I need to get some brackets and the smog tubes anyways so I will ask him this week?

[mike1971]

I agree Graeme Bill is top notch on the Smog world!.��

[DW31S]

Nice score Graeme!

[napa68]

Lovely.............just lovely!

I'm looking forward to see how "detail it"

Great find Graeme!

[NorCam]

Thanks Dave...

I'm enjoying this one while discovering things I never knew about late built cars.

Checked out the wheels, trim rings and derby covers yesterday. Everything appears to be factory issue with original 4 clip 3901708 trim rings and factory 3925805 dual flute derby caps. The wheels are original 15" x 7" rallies with K-1-9 9 9 YH dates from Kelsey Hayes. Hard to see behind the valve stem in this shot and will have to verify if there's another digit such as a 1 under the leading edge of the valve stem? To this point it looks like the 9th day of September unless there's another number at the leading edge of the hole? Insides of the wheels are a little crusty (survivor state) and have never been restored by the looks of things. All lug nuts have the 3 triangle markings on them as well. Once I mount some driver wheels, these will be stored away. The spare in the trunk matches the others and has an original Sports Car 200 spare tire on it. Jeff Boone added the wide tread F70 tires to the car before it was shipped. He had a set of these sitting around and while they are not the correct E70's, they will do since they are coming off to be stored anyways.

Thanks for adding these to the car Boonie. :biggthumpup:

https://i.ibb.co/S00Js5t/IMG-7025.jpg
Original factory issue trim rings and derby caps.

https://i.ibb.co/CJWMCKV/IMG-7022.jpg
Might be a 1 hiding under that valve stem. Will check later.

https://i.ibb.co/3Bk4h9q/IMG-7024.jpg
Dual fluted derby cap as issued by factory.

https://i.ibb.co/WszcT9k/IMG-6905.jpg
Wheels have not been restored by looks of the inside.

https://i.ibb.co/J3JQTvH/013c.jpg
Original spare tire intact.

[NorCam]

Not knowing a lot about the engine other than a report of it being checked out recently by a PA machine shop, I took a peek inside the covers to see what the dates were on the cylinder heads. They are in fact a late set of 186 heads with October 1st casting dates and have not being converted or altered with screw in studs or guide plates. I found the rockers to have M markings on them which was odd, and immediately saw that the covers also had drippers? The M markings are long slot rockers for big blocks are they not? The covers then had me wondering if this was a late change up due to it being a late car as these would be the same as 1970 covers. Anyone in the know what other late cars came with? In the coming week, I will try and learn more about the motor having been gone through to see if the bore is standard or if the rings / bearings were done while it was checked. At this point I am expecting the short block is purely stock with exception of the cam which was reportedly changed to a Comp 3849346 solid lifter replacement cam #12-107-3. Sounds a little docile to me but cam specs are pretty much spot on with the original 30/30. Runs out pretty good from the first few test miles put on the car this week. Not exactly the bottom of the page grinds that I am used to...but it will have to do as I struggle to keep with something stock. More on the engine as it's discovered.

https://i.ibb.co/DQp67P4/IMG-7032.jpg
The passenger side showing stock manifolds and spark plug shields. Manifold bolts appear incorrect. (bin bolts)

https://i.ibb.co/Wpwm57M/IMG-7026.jpg
Correct 186 Camel bump heads dated J 1 9 (October 1st)

https://i.ibb.co/WvtWQ3G/IMG-7027.jpg
Long slot rockers with M markings? Thought this was odd...big block rockers?

https://i.ibb.co/Dr5YNbY/IMG-7028.jpg
Motor has 474207/474208 covers with drippers? They look original but...

https://i.ibb.co/b3dvgMq/IMG-7029.jpg
Retains original wire separators with correct M marking bolts.

December 15th Addition: I have since learned that the above valve covers are in fact 80's dated replacements, however it has been interesting to learn that more than a few Nov built survivor cars have been found to have come with 70 style dripper covers. I may be changing these covers out to an earlier set of 3965543 & 3965544 covers at some point. I have also been in further contact with the engine builder who told me the rockers are Manley long slot rockers that were added when the engine was rebuilt a few years ago. They are claimed as being a suitable replacement and are marked with an M.

[NorCam]

Would you care to clean off the diff stamp a little further to the left of the BU. Curious if it has a peened “C”. Thanks & congrats.

Checked out the diff this morning and removed a little more paint toward the strap and there was no C to be found. There are some marks that look like it could of been peened over from the factory. Is this where the C was sometimes found on late differential housings?

https://i.ibb.co/PjkkKg1/IMG-7056.jpg
BU Stamp dated October 28th. Housing is clean with no rust or pitting.

[markinnaples]

Mark...it's Vintage Vehicle Services in Oshawa Ontario, They have the microfiche records for all Canadian sold cars and Canadian Export cars. If you think you have a CDN car you can request a search. If it's a Canadian car they will have docs and charge a fee for this service. If your car is US made and it doesn't return any data, the fee is $16.95 for the search. I only checked this car because the NCRS came up empty and it was worth a shot in case it was originally a Canadian car. It wasn't but I didn't expect it would be. Here's a link to their website where everything is well explained.

https://www.vintagevehicleservices.com/

Thanks so much. I may give it a shot, appreciate it. Again, just a beautiful Z.

[big gear head]

I found the rockers to have M markings on them which was odd, and immediately saw that the covers also had drippers? The M markings are long slot rockers for big blocks are they not?

Big block long slot rockers were marked with a L or H.

[ScottG]

Very nice car that will clean up nicely, they are still out there !

[NorCam]

Just got off the phone with the engine builder who went through the motor about 5 years ago. I learned an interesting story about Wayne Harmon's former girlfriend in that call today. Apparently she decided to run a bunch sugar though his cars and this engine got the same treatment. Wayne pulled the motor out of the car to protect the DZ block and installed an LT-1 into the car to serve as his driver. He had the 302 on a run stand in his shop and would run it from time to time. I guess she nailed his cars, his truck and this engine which was run not knowing she had hit the stands fuel tank with sugar as well. It was brought to the machine shop as a complete running long block that needed to be gone through because of the sugar that was run through it (very nasty woman). :hmmm:

You can see from the pictures that the sugar had gummed up and solidified in the lifter valley as well as around the heads. The machinist took it all apart to hot wash and clean the block and heads thoroughly before measuring everything out on the rotating assembly. It had all original internals and I am told that once it was cleaned, it received new rings, bearings, a camshaft and a timing chain before going back together as standard bore motor. He also recalled doing valve seals on the heads and has sent me some pictures of it as it was coming apart.

Looks like it had O rocker arms when it came to him but they were changed at some point after that? He thinks he might be able to dig out the invoice for the work he performed on the motor and may be sending that to me when he has time. Today, I also grabbed a couple pictures of the DZ carburetor that Jeff Boone sent out to be restored for the car prior to selling it to me. Carb is dated 2nd week of October 69 and is very nicely restored. Just need to find an original choke rod as that went missing at some point. Oh yeah, and a set of O rocker arms. lol

https://i.ibb.co/bg6zRHW/IMG-0334.jpg

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https://i.ibb.co/jWRw6nm/IMG-7031.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/grLQ1c7/IMG-7030.jpg

[Crush]

Really fun reading the story as it happens! Thanks for sharing and I admire your tenacity!

[napa68]

I'm going to get a beer and be right back............. so I can watch this thread.

[NorCam]

I know right...

I just went out to check the trunk and make sure there were no boiled bunnies in there anywhere. Took a few pics to show how clean the spatter paint is while I was at in there.

No wabbits!:biggthumpup:

https://i.ibb.co/w6RjcwT/IMG-7014.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/zGzDRkQ/IMG-7015.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/6RVK9cf/IMG-7016.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/vwh9hmp/IMG-7019.jpg

[NorCam]

Frame rails are clean and solid in the back with traces of original overspray by the looks of things. Also took a couple pics of the front springs that were changed out by the third owners brother. Might clean these up a but and reinstall them. Tags are still there but the part numbers are barely visible after 50 years. Glad they stayed with the car.

https://i.ibb.co/tQk55x8/IMG-7062.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/S5HDx5m/IMG-6999.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/FYL36jw/IMG-6998.jpg

[ZLP955]

Sure looks like a great car, congrats!
Several owners of late-built '69 Camaros have reported having dripper valve covers, and also star-head door striker bolts. That sure looks like a peened-over 'C' before the BU on the axle tube, but will defer to Darrell and others who have been researching that.

[HawkX66]

Checked out the diff this morning and removed a little more paint toward the strap and there was no C to be found. There are some marks that look like it could of been peened over from the factory. Is this where the C was sometimes found on late differential housings?

https://i.ibb.co/PjkkKg1/IMG-7056.jpg
BU Stamp dated October 28th. Housing is clean with no rust or pitting.
That's correct. Sometime in July I believe they started with the "C". Mine is an 08D and it has the C. It seems like yours should have it being so late. It does look like it could have been peened over for some reason like you said. That 5 looks interesting too. I haven't seen that before.
Here's what mine looks like.

https://live.staticflickr.com/5628/30557498023_e45a3a0f33_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Nygayc)20150121_183238 (https://flic.kr/p/Nygayc) by Dave H (https://www.flickr.com/photos/146684464@N06/), on Flickr

[cook_dw]

Checked out the diff this morning and removed a little more paint toward the strap and there was no C to be found. There are some marks that look like it could of been peened over from the factory. Is this where the C was sometimes found on late differential housings?

https://i.ibb.co/PjkkKg1/IMG-7056.jpg
BU Stamp dated October 28th. Housing is clean with no rust or pitting.

Yes. This is what I suspected. It is what I believe to have been originally stamped with a C and then peened. Small timeframe that this happened but it jives with what data I have collected. Thank you for reporting back.




Finally had a chance to come back to this:
For the record the stamp is legit. It is to this point the latest that I have that is peened.

[Mr.Nickey Nova]

That is a keeper in my book, very nice Z!! My Z is from N.C also, Greensboro area. Called the N.C. DMV and talked to a gal. She went out of her way to look in thru the microfilm and put into the system for me. I sent in the $10.00 and received a bunch of title info, including the ''Statement of Origin'' with the Dealers name. You might want to give them a call at 919-715-7000. Good luck!!

[NorCam]

Being as clean as this car is, today I decided to delve into the interior a little and see just how nice it really is. Suffice to say I was utterly impressed. Car has original front mats and what appeared to be original carpet so I pulled the seats to get a better look at everything including the seat backs and bottoms. Wow...completely rust free seats with super clean frames that look like they just went into the car last week. And the carpet is original for sure.

The inside floors are meticulous throughout the cabin, and everything is super clean from the seat back and package tray right up to the firewall pad and up under the dash. No evidence of the car ever seeing any moisture or humidity whatsoever. In fact, the floors and inner sheet metal are some of the cleanest originals I have ever seen in person. Now to deodorize things a touch and put it all back. Made for a fun afternoon where everything appears unmolested and wickedly clean in there. The X 7 is written on the rear package tray but a little hard to read with all that glue over top. Stellar car for sure.

https://i.ibb.co/7CQ0wQ6/IMG-7163.jpg
Car up on the lift where I'll go through everything this winter.

https://i.ibb.co/WHBX1jC/IMG-7166.jpg
Front original mats are in decent shape. Driver side is a little brittle.

https://i.ibb.co/Hnnh1nW/IMG-7137.jpg
Original carpets with factory cuts, jute padding and sound deaden-er.

https://i.ibb.co/pRR7YDz/IMG-7122.jpg
Original sill plates with the rivets which are in great shape.

https://i.ibb.co/m8pXfDF/IMG-7127.jpg
Floors are simply spotless in the front and rear. Found this cardboard under it.

https://i.ibb.co/GtcdpY6/IMG-7121.jpg
All original sound deaden-er and jute padding. Bolt's came out like butter too!

https://i.ibb.co/T8M443W/IMG-7133.jpg
Everything up under the dash is super clean and unmolested throughout.

More pics in the next post including the backs of the seats.

[NorCam]

https://i.ibb.co/WD8j763/IMG-7151.jpg
Seat backs are super clean with no evidence of any critters ever.

https://i.ibb.co/7XMC0bX/IMG-7152.jpg
And check out those frames. The car could never of seen any humidity ever?

https://i.ibb.co/7J98mD8/IMG-7113.jpg
The bottoms of the buckets are absolutely impeccable. Zero rust or flashing!

https://i.ibb.co/5j3dHt8/IMG-7120.jpg
Head rests are hard to see but are dated 9 17 69 with mint cushions.

https://i.ibb.co/25vy3C7/IMG-7153.jpg
Rear package trays has the X 7 written in crayon as seen here.

https://i.ibb.co/cXyYXm1/IMG-7162.jpg
You really don't see many 50 year old cars looking this clean inside. Zero rust!

https://i.ibb.co/5MkxM1y/IMG-7156.jpg
Back wheel wells are super clean, seams are all good and it still has the shock caps.

[Zedder]

I’m not a 69 guy, but I LOVE this car!

[NorCam]

Here's a final picture from today's inspections. The door jamb confirming star shape door strikers for a late issue car.

https://i.ibb.co/h8xDjLD/IMG-7167.jpg

[Salvatore]

wow, really impressive Graeme.

[69L78]

Graeme, You are the right guy to take this car to the next level, if the 3rd owner would not have hit a deer, it would probably still have original paint.
Here is the twin to your car that was also sold at Freddy's in the early 70's, it had 30k original miles all org sheetmetal flat hood & no spoiler.

[NorCam]

That's a great picture Jeff...

It would be cool to have that early LB flat hood / non spoiler car and put it next to this late ZL2 optioned car, just to compare with one another. I'm still going through everything and learning the differences between the early vs late cars. There are a few subtle changes in the part numbers between the two.

In going through the car, it's just so original in so many ways. The lower suspension is fantastic and so much of the car remains original to the factory build. I think it would make for an excellent survivor car if not for the one early repaint. In saying that, Tim Leiphart did an excellent job in repainting the car as I have now inspected the car from front to back and love what I see. I'll continue on cleaning and preserving the car over the winter and should have the car dialed in 100% come spring

Thanks again for such a great car Jeff. I'm really impressed with it.

[NorCam]

I’m not a 69 guy, but I LOVE this car!

We'll convert you yet Mark. :headbang:

[NorCam]

That is a keeper in my book, very nice Z!! My Z is from N.C also, Greensboro area. Called the N.C. DMV and talked to a gal. She went out of her way to look in thru the microfilm and put into the system for me. I sent in the $10.00 and received a bunch of title info, including the ''Statement of Origin'' with the Dealers name. You might want to give them a call at 919-715-7000. Good luck!!

Thanks for that info Mark.

I did some searching to see if there was an early title listed in their DMV but those attempts came back clear with no titles showing in NC. Also did an InstaVIN report which showed some title information from PA that dates back to 1970, but nothing earlier than that. This morning I called the number above and was transferred to a girl in Antique Vehicles for NC DMV.

They only keep records back to the 90's and that may be why earlier searches came up blank. She took the VIN and is going to request a MicroFilm search on the VIN to see if they have any earlier info on the car that may be in their older MF records. If it's there, she can update the file and share any previous info concerning an original title if it was in fact from NC. She told me it may take a while so I'll wait and see if anything comes from that request. I do appreciate the tip Mark, and will report back if I discover the original title, statement of origin or any possible dealer info.

Fingers are crossed. :scholar:

[NorCam]

Still going through the underside of the car and planning a course of attack to clean up some of the black paint that a former owner sprayed to fluff the bottom of the car. Not sure what's best to remove the spray paint but looks like he hit some of the front floor boards, trans tunnel, sub frame rails and the rear leafs in an attempt to cover the old road grime. Good part is that he sprayed it directly over top without much or any prep work so I'm hoping that makes it easier to wipe it down with some solvent and leave the original lacquer or factory rust inhibitor underneath? If anyone has any tips on cleaning off spray paint, don't hesitate to chime in as I'd appreciate any tips on how to scale it back to what factory finish remained prior?

In surveying the bottom of the car this week, I discovered that the rear rocker flaps are intact and I'm happy to say that most if not all of the hardware appears original and correct to the car. Now to go about cleaning it up and not restoring or over cleaning anything. First thing I'm planning is to get rid of the crappy exhaust system he installed and pull the fuel tank which needs a little help. I'll then wash down the rear springs to clean them up and clean the lower shock plates and cable brackets. The brake cables and hard lines will need to be cleaned to remove any paint and once I get the floors and sub frame rails washed down to a suitable finish, the cables and hardware can go back on. Not planning to overdo things, just clean off anything he fluffed and try to rid the chassis of any spray paint. Here's a few shots showing the bottom of the car and suspension before I get to work on it.

https://i.ibb.co/Jnb4Lxv/020.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/Czxvdwd/IMG-7067.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/0yfN96G/IMG-7103.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/cYbpqF4/IMG-7105.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/0Fv4qss/IMG-7109.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/4M38JhB/IMG-7111.jpg

[NorCam]

A few more shots of the suspension and floors before cleaning. Rear shocks will need to be replaced when I get to the back.

https://i.ibb.co/m6f2hKf/IMG-7182.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/rpkdWsF/IMG-7188.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/1rrqVxp/IMG-7183.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/Hht7pgL/IMG-7184.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/vHFQ7Wy/IMG-7185.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/BVFJ08h/IMG-7186.jpg

[big gear head]

Has some of the orange overspray been cleaned off of the bell housing? I see traces of orange around the bottom, but that's all. Did the 302 get painted after the bell housing was installed or before?

[NorCam]

Engine has been out and was painted when freshened about 4-5 years ago. I don't believe the transmission has ever been out and has not been repainted since. There are remnants of orange paint along the lower bolt holes and a little along the upper flange which I suspect is factory paint. I'm sure there was more applied 50 years ago but much of what would have been there...looks to have worn or flaked off over time. I have not cleaned it but cannot say what the previous owner may have done. FWIW it has a 621 bell in it and I'm not sure if that's another thing with late cars, but it's looking like it's been mated with the original transmission for quite some time if not since it left Norwood? Some better pictures of the bell are being added to show how I got it.

https://i.ibb.co/Lvh2X1c/IMG-7195.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/cgxTSzF/IMG-7192.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/zHp6qCC/IMG-7193.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/60LbkF6/IMG-7194.jpg

[rlw68]

A few more shots of the suspension and floors before cleaning. Rear shocks will need to be replaced when I get to the back.


https://i.ibb.co/1rrqVxp/IMG-7183.jpg





What up with that RH seat belt thing ?


:confused2:

[NorCam]

Don't know and never noticed it until you made mention of it? Must have been a lefty installed it. I'll have a better look at it later to see why it's clocked like that.

[rlw68]

Don't know and never noticed it until you made mention of it? Must have been a lefty installed it. I'll have a better look at it later to see why it's clocked like that.

It appears the spot welds got broke loose



:frown:

[carnut4life]

Enamel reducer will take the rattle can paint off and not harm the factory paint below. Found that out the hard way on a 70 LS5 Chevelle I passed on this spring, been kicking myself every since. Beautiful car, good luck NorCam.

[ZLP955]

Just curious if the car has the 6500-8000 redline tach?

[NorCam]

Shot of the speedo showing mileage and one of the 8K tach.

https://i.ibb.co/8PJrzr9/029.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/Qms8Nk0/030.jpg

[HawkX66]

What up with that RH seat belt thing ?


:confused2:

Don't know and never noticed it until you made mention of it? Must have been a lefty installed it. I'll have a better look at it later to see why it's clocked like that.

It appears the spot welds got broke loose



:frown:
That's how it should be clocked. That's factory. Only a/m floor pans make them symmetric.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/30543016474_4b5601c6a7_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/NwYWGj)IMG_20150913_123639 (https://flic.kr/p/NwYWGj) by Dave H (https://www.flickr.com/photos/146684464@N06/), on Flickr

[NorCam]

I agree Dave. It's welded in correct position and matches with the original floors in other cars I just checked. All good here.

https://i.ibb.co/Brb7s1K/IMG-7198.jpg

[rlw68]

I agree Dave. It's welded in correct position and matches with the original floors in other cars I just checked. All good here.


Sorry Graeme, my bad ! :frown: In the picture it appeared to be in a 10-4 o'clock position not 11-5. Maybe it was the scrapes on the metal below, if that's what I'm seeing ???

I'll be interested to see how the floor pans clean up. Below is my Lemans blue '69. Its all blue/gray color and no black at all.

[NorCam]

We have some decent pre-winter temps coming here today so I'm going to add a few miles to the car to burn off the rest of the fuel before I pull the tank and tear out the current exhaust. After I carefully clean the undercarriage and detail the hard lines and cables, it'll get a new Gardner exhaust system with the tank restored in time for spring. Smog system will be going back onto the car and it promises to be an even better car once I've gone through it over the winter.

Here's a shot of it resting before the work gets started. Likely the closest the car will come to hibernating this winter. Stay tuned...

https://i.ibb.co/P4dvqhf/IMG-7190.jpg

[NorCam]

Searching for missing parts has been productive the past week. Happy to have found a nice original May distributor that I can rebuild for the car and have an NOS tune up kit coming for it as well. The car is getting a new exhaust system c/w resonators from Gardner, and a host of other parts have started to arrive so I can get to work and dial in the Z. Also caught up with Bill Hodel for a good chat yesterday and will send him the smog pump for servicing before it goes back onto the car.

I'm going to keep this car as factory stock as possible. A shift from the performance based drivetrains I've grown accustomed to over the years. I must be getting old or something? In saying that, I'm trying to take a less is more approach to the horsepower and enjoy what the factory put out. Here's the dating on the distributor that I sourced to replace the one missing from the car. Great patina on an original casting, and soon to be torn down and rebuilt before dressing it with an NOS cap, h/d GM points, and rotor. I'm still searching to see if I can find a nice set of factory ignition wires for it a have some Acniter R43 plugs coming too.

Can anyone suggest somebody who can spin up a distributor put a good curve on it that's perfect for a factory 30/30 cam?


https://i.ibb.co/GFY9mvv/1111480-Core.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/YcS3Ltx/1111480-Stamp.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/6Zm2PFd/1111480-Part.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/BVH4Gx9/1111580-Date.jpg

[napa68]

How about Jerry M? If someone knows how to make a 302 rip, that should be your guy

[x77-69z28]

How about Jerry M? If someone knows how to make a 302 rip, that should be your guy

X2!
Buddy

[rlw68]

Hey Graeme, just curious if it has the original gas tank. I picked one up with a bunch of other parts recently from a late '69 dated "5 70". My pro-touring friends throw away lots of nice stuff !

:wink:

[NorCam]

Rob,

It has the original dated tank but it has a pretty good dent in the bottom of it and likely isn't worth saving. I do have one other original but too early of a date to use for this car. I was thinking of running a new Spectra tank until I find a suitable original with a later date. If you see a late original out there please keep me in mind or reach out as I'd love to find a better one for this car.

Here's the early one that a friend passed along to me a few years ago.

https://i.ibb.co/vB4MTh2/IMG-7353.jpg

[Zedder]

Hey Graeme...did you find the source of the "smell" yet?

[rlw68]

Rob,

It has the original dated tank but it has a pretty good dent in the bottom of it and likely isn't worth saving. I do have one other original but too early of a date to use for this car. I was thinking of running a new Spectra tank until I find a suitable original with a later date. If you see a late original out there please keep me in mind or reach out as I'd love to find a better one for this car.


This one is yours for the taking if you want it. Planning a visit to North Carolina anytime soon?

The tank is out of a 9D Norwood car. Those are just dirt marks on the bottom that looks like scratches and blue over spray from somebodies 2nd paint job. I can check the inside but there is a locking cap. And who better to ask! What's the easiest way to get it off without damage ?

Sorry to cluttered up your thread. I can delete some of these pics after you have a look. But not the one with Moon in it :burnout:

150339


150340


150341 150342

[NorCam]

Let me think on the tank and leaving the pics there is fine Rob. I might take you up on that one and truly appreciate the offer. Moon is looking pretty happy there. It's gotten cold here today and snowed a bunch last night so Düss is having a nap here right now. He's like a horse this guy!

https://i.ibb.co/kKgNCrz/IMG-7372.jpg (https://ibb.co/p2vYFsN)

[NorCam]

Hey Graeme...did you find the source of the "smell" yet?

Hey Mark...

I've checked the car out including the cowl plenums and fan housing. No mice, no nests, no nothing (but I did find one of the original key code knockouts that found it's way under the carpet). There's no evidence of mice anywhere so it might just be the smell of mothballs as I suspected.

FEUSt1tWw4A

I found a color safe chemical call AGI (pronounced Aggy) for treating carpet and fabric that has live enzymes and will neutralize the odor both in the nylon twist as well as airborne. Once I spray the carpet and seat backs I will vacuum it up after a couple hours of dry time and button it all back up again. I'll then put a couple pie plates of coffee grinds out and leave that for a week or so. If there's any smell lingering after that, another trick I was told is to use a suggested dry-cleaning spray on the headliner to take it to the next level. In the mean time, I'll wipe down the vinyl after it's back together and see if that neutralizes everything. I'm trusting this approach will work great.

[Zedder]

Good to hear Graeme. If there was something in there in the past, I think you would have found some evidence by now. I bought a 72 Corvette years ago that had only 21,000 miles but had been stored in a "bank barn". As soon as I got in it I could smell that old familiar smell. It was cold that night and I had a 2 hour drive home in it with my wife following me. The car was a vert and the windows started fogging up, so I turned on the heater...bad move! Mouse crap and bits of foam etc. blew right into my face! I ended up pulling 4 grocery bags full of mouse nest material out of that car. Under both seats, under the dash and in the bottoms of both front fenders.

[rlw68]

Ok ,no hurry at all. I just saw a dated part with the dump in its future and it was too much to bear :) We had a nice fall day here with temps in the 70s. It was a brutal summer though and Moon is much happier to be outside now. That's a beautiful boy you got there !!!

[NorCam]

I took some more pictures after pulling the drivers seat out and seeing how clean the original frames are. Same thing as the other side with really clean floors everywhere. You can see from the seat bottoms and the floors around the sound deaden-er that this car has never seen moisture, condensation or humidity of any significance. Everywhere I have looked is clean, dry and completely rust free.

https://i.ibb.co/wz1Xm88/IMG-7364.jpg (https://ibb.co/d5yqYXX)
Drivers side seat bottom and frame. Slides are just cherry!

https://i.ibb.co/XSs8jdt/IMG-7365.jpg (https://ibb.co/J57QmbH)
Have you ever seen frames that look this clean after 50 years?

https://i.ibb.co/yyYY7Kt/IMG-7367.jpg (https://ibb.co/Xs33M61)
Floors are simply impeccable in this car.

https://i.ibb.co/9VbxDmd/IMG-7369.jpg (https://ibb.co/xf1nkKr)
Original carpets, sound deaden-er and jute padding are clean and dry.

https://i.ibb.co/D7D9NPs/IMG-7368.jpg (https://ibb.co/19fr3Yh)
Anytime I've taken these sub frame bolts out, they are almost always rusty. Not with this car!

https://i.ibb.co/pXLNMpT/IMG-7366.jpg (https://ibb.co/WK27M1X)
A few treasures from under the carpet including an original key code knockout.

[NorCam]

so I turned on the heater...bad move! Mouse crap and bits of foam etc. blew right into my face!

That is nasty! :ooo::ooo::ooo:

[NorCam]

How about Jerry M? If someone knows how to make a 302 rip, that should be your guy

Thanks Tim & Buddy.

Jerry McNeish will have the distributor by the weekend and will set it up and spin it for me. Should be finished up in time for delivery to MCACN where I'll pick it up. Plan is coming together nicely.

[Crush]

Thanks Tim & Buddy.

Jerry McNeish will have the distributor by the weekend and will set it up and spin it for me. Should be finished up in time for delivery to MCACN where I'll pick it up. Plan is coming together nicely.

I think you have a shot at given A12pilot a run for his money!! Love the urgency, I suffer from the same disease in many areas of my life and people just don’t get it!!!

[Lynn]

I have never seen a set of 50 year old seat tracks that clean and rust free.

[NorCam]

I think you have a shot at given A12pilot a run for his money!! Love the urgency, I suffer from the same disease in many areas of my life and people just don’t get it!!!

LMAO :haha:

Love that last part. I can totally relate!

[NorCam]

I have never seen a set of 50 year old seat tracks that clean and rust free.

I know right? Even the bolts are "spotless". I don't think they've ever been out and there isn't a mark or any discoloration on the original phosphate threads. It's just uncanny. I peered up under the dash and the underside of the cowl panel and top of firewall are just as clean with no evidence of any condensation or flash rust ever. Must have been driven on sunny dry days and always been back into dry heated storage when not being driven. Underside of the package tray is just as clean and fresh in all the hidden spots where you normally find evidence of moisture.

https://i.ibb.co/2PgcGF4/IMG-7135.jpg

A real gem...

[RPOLS3]

Anyone else not able to see Graeme's pictures as of late? For some reason as of about 2 weeks ago I can no longer see them, home or work computer...…...Arrrgh. Sorry for the hi-jack.

[NorCam]

Jake,

I'll send you a direct link to picture folder

[Xplantdad]

Anyone else not able to see Graeme's pictures as of late? For some reason as of about 2 weeks ago I can no longer see them, home or work computer...…...Arrrgh. Sorry for the hi-jack.


Jake, I can see them....

[Lynn]

Pics show fine for me.

[Stihl]

Beautiful, awesome car. It is hard to believe the condition it is in! Congrats!!

[GearheadSS]

Stunning car. Love everything about it.

[Tracker1]

Love this z!!

[m22mike]

WOW, crazy clean and corrosion free, your gonna' get spoiled with this one .:drool:

[KLars1]

Amazing car, super enjoying this thread.

[NorCam]

Here's an update video taken while cleaning and detailing the original interior yesterday. Seats were removed and the carpets were treated with an odor neutralizer before being wiped down with a cloth soaked in warm water and a dose of Citra-Solve. Also wiped down the headliner, all of the vinyl upholstery and the seat belt fabric to rid the car of an odor I suspect was from moth balls. Final step was to add some coffee grinds to a tin pie plate and leave it sit once the interior was reinstalled.

aMgyY4jLF-Q

[NorCam]

A few pictures of the interior after cleaning the carpets, wiping down the vinyl upholstery and buttoning everything back up. This should leave it smelling clean and fresh inside the car with little to no odor. Next up is to correct a few things in the engine bay and detail the undercarriage over the winter months.

https://i.ibb.co/Qn9y9Tt/IMG-7420.jpg
Original headliner was wiped down with a soft cloth soaked in warm water w/ Citra-solve cleaner.

https://i.ibb.co/dgZn9fH/IMG-7431.jpg
The original seats were also wiped down before being reinstalled in the car.

https://i.ibb.co/L6fcfb9/IMG-7433.jpg
Finally, the seat belt fabric was treated to ensure everything was properly cleaned and deodorized.

Aside from cleaning the glass and applying some upholstery protector onto the vinyl, the inside of the car has been thoroughly cleaned and detailed. Also added a pie late with coffee grinds to the interior to help with any residual odor. Mission accomplished!

[BOWTIE67327]

maybe im a little weird, but it's nice seeing a 69 camaro WITHOUT a rosewood wheel, I do like them, but just nice seeing a black wheel

[napa68]

Got any updates? I'm starting to go through withdrawal. Cannot make it to MCACN, so I am living vicariously through you Greame!

[NorCam]

:haha:

Now you know how I felt when I was following you with your little red Nova. :laugh:

But seriously...I'm waiting on a bunch of parts that are coming for the mechanical end of things. Most are already sitting in Montana waiting for me to pick them up but I want to wait for the rest to arrive. It's like an early Christmas for me with this next parts run.

And why aren't you going to MCACN. :hmmm:

It's so close you could just ride your sled down for the weekend.

[Xplantdad]

You beat me to it Graeme! Tim, you live so close :)

[napa68]

You beat me to it Graeme! Tim, you live so close :)

Tracey and I are building a storage building and I have had to keep my foot stuck in their a$$ to keep moving on it. This was a project that was supposed to be completed in the end of September.

Business before pleasure. Gotta pay for these toys somehow;)

[NorCam]

So you're hopping on a prop plane and buzzing down for the day? See you Saturday then right?

:beers:

[NorCam]

Meanwhile in Wisconsin...

https://www.facebook.com/HammerDownBoating/videos/1517804174935807/

[napa68]

Lmao^^^^^^^

[Xplantdad]

LOL Graeme!

[SuperNovaSS]

Just found this thread. Awesome car! Thanks for sharing and keep up the great work.

Jason

[PeteLeathersac]

'

Love this car too also have been enjoying the updates and whole thread.:biggthumpup:
:beers:
~ Pete

.

[WILMASBOYL78]

Meanwhile in Wisconsin...

https://www.facebook.com/HammerDownBoating/videos/1517804174935807/


I had that happen to me one time a few years back....some yahoo on a sled was racing across a farm field that bordered the local two lane highway. He must not have realized where the field ended and the road began because he landed about 50 ft in front of my Tahoe one nite when I was heading home. Sled hit the road, flipped, rider went sliding down the pavement...sled was upside down still running with the track spinning. Just missed hitting him...before I could grab my cell phone to call the cops he had it right side up and was back in the woods.

Snowmobile accidents can be scary, we have deaths here every year...mostly drinking related. Those big trees don't move :eek2:

-wilma

[NorCam]

Wanted to offer up a quick shout out to fellow sYc members who've been stepping up to help out with some great parts. Everything from ignition parts, to plain old missing fasteners, to rare dated parts. That and I wanted to say thank you for helping supply some of the stuff that was missing from this car. Because of you fine folks here on the site...this Camaro will be rocking it real soon.

https://i.ibb.co/BBdvsHh/Locks-Bolts.jpg
Exhaust Fasteners & French Lock from Chris Gore (Thanks Chris)

https://i.ibb.co/dkBsyVh/IMG-2207.jpg
Ken Alexson for the Ignition Tune Up kit

https://i.ibb.co/Mknnp89/IMG-2340.jpg
Kennie...thanks again for the choke rod too.

https://i.ibb.co/hdLRbG3/92742-E4-F-9-A6-B-4529-A9-A2-016-A6-EBB14-C6.jpg
Rob Richter for the R43 AC Delco Plugs

https://i.ibb.co/Z2tk7DG/Dizzy.jpg
And Jeff Boone for the Distributor and it's MacNeish rebuild last week.

It's all coming together now and won't be long until I get busy with some work on the car. Hoping to see a bunch of you at MCACN this week. :youguysrock:

[NorCam]

One thing under the car that's been bugging me are those gold colored front stabilizer links on the sway bar. No doubt they were added when the front springs were serviced by the previous owner, but they have to go. Picked these NOS ones up from eBay and will soon have these mounted up on the front sway bar.

https://i.ibb.co/CsMSffn/s-l1600-5.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/P4H2FVn/s-l1600-4.jpg

[NorCam]

Fresh back from MCACN with the freshly rebuilt distributor thanks to Jeff Boone and J. McNeish. Learned some new things from Mike D and Benny while hanging around Chi-town this past weekend and can't wait to get back onto the Z/28 now. Lots of work ahead with all the parts that have arrived. The distributor turned out just great with the right amount of patina. Now to find some dated wires.

https://i.ibb.co/9qfKfVT/IMG-7847.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/Fnmt7mH/IMG-7849.jpg

[napa68]

Ok GW......... you're back from MCACN. Let's get busy!

[NorCam]

OK Tim...

Made it down to Montana today to pick up some parts. Smog pump is back from Bill Hodel, the rebuilt water pump and starter are now here, and so are some important fasteners along with a few new replacement parts. I'll need to paint the radiator and water pump before getting busy with the car later this week. Lastly, I've picked up another set of Firestone Wide Oval Radials that will be used as drivers for this car while the original wheels are stored for shows and such. Once things are cleaned up and detailed under the car, this stash of parts will start going on and I'll follow that up by hanging the Gardner exhaust which has also arrived. It's like an early Christmas with all this stuff timed for December says my wife.

Guess it'll be socks and a lump of coal for Christmas as she says my spending is done now. :dunno:

https://i.ibb.co/Qr3N713/IMG-7902.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/3f5q5tp/IMG-7903.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/kSFFWx5/IMG-7901.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/nR1M993/IMG-7900.jpg

[ted]

Good morning!!
Very very nice '69 beast.
Ted

[NorCam]

Starting the project off right with a new shop tool to make working on the car a little easier and a little safer. Yesterday I picked up an SJ-35 sliding 3500-lb lift jack for use with 4 post lifts. It'll make lifting the car a little easier for suspension work and changing wheels and tires. The thing weighs about 300 lbs and was a bit of a challenge to offload by myself and slide into the rails of the lift, but nothing an engine crane and some pry bars wouldn't manage. Just got it squared away on the lift and will start using it today. These sliding lift jacks are pretty slick if you plan to use a 4 post lift for working on your car.

https://i.ibb.co/VH6kmPN/IMG-7915.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/0hmQZwK/IMG-7917.jpg

[TopRat]

Very Nice!

[NorCam]

First item today was to see how the TT's and the new Radials look on the car. These are the drivers I will use to help the car handle a bit better than it did with the bias ply wide treads. I'll see how the arm strong results are come spring and if warranted, I may add power steering to the car. More changes in the days and weeks ahead.

https://i.ibb.co/6H8zbkV/IMG-7927.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/B4zzjsg/IMG-7931.jpg

[x44d80]

Love the TT's! What size rims and tires are they?

[L78racer]

looks killer. :beers:

[NorCam]

Love the TT's! What size rims and tires are they?

TT 15" x 7" all the way around with FR70-15's

[32KZ]

How about backspacing? 3.5"?

[NorCam]

How about backspacing? 3.5"?

Part Number: 286-VN1055761

These have stock back spacing which is 3.75".

I buy them from Jegs or Summit when they have their big sales on and they are very affordable.

[32KZ]

👍

[NorCam]

The fun starts today Tim. Yesterday I started addressing some fastener changes on the engine and now it's time to pull the rad, remove the water pump and undress the bottom of the car beginning with the exhaust. Slow and steady cleaning of the significant areas will then begin prior to any new or restored parts going back on. Oh and thanks for the nice pair of NOS fender aprons I was able to pick up from a couple site members.

https://i.ibb.co/8Y2Wn68/IMG-7933.jpg
NOS aprons courtesy of Ken & Mark (one per side)

https://i.ibb.co/cgVxkJ4/IMG-7947.jpg
Found a nice screw to complete the coil bracket.

https://i.ibb.co/N3DGGzn/IMG-7942.jpg
Swapped out the intake bolts to M head markings. I added hardened steel flat washers to protect from marring.

https://i.ibb.co/gm7135R/IMG-7940.jpg
Also added correct original lift brackets which were missing.

[6667ss138]

I know you are trying to put everything back correctly and detailing your engine compartment. I can't see it in your pictures. Do you have this bracket on your carb base to fuel line. Should be on later built cars, hard to find and expensive. Just curious. Beautiful car!!

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=12107.0

http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=8747.0

[NorCam]

I know the bracket you're talking about as I helped document one on a survivor LT-1 motor that an old friend had about 15 years ago, and no...that's missing from this car.

http://chevynova.org/LT1_Engine/Mvc-013s.jpg

http://chevynova.org/LT1_Engine/lt1_040.jpg

[KLars1]

This thread ROCKS. What an awesome car, I look forward to the updates daily.

[Salvatore]

Don't think I ever saw one of those fuel line brackets on a 1969 Z/28. Maybe very late cars?

[NorCam]

Found another small 1970 related part on the car earlier today. While pulling back the coolant lines I noticed the thermostat housing is part #3972128 which was also used on 70 Z/28's and Vette's. Still had an original AC Delco thermostat in it and will now get cleaned up and reused. Seems that engine builder George Kulp liked his black gasket sealant. He rebuilt the motor and this stuff is everywhere. I'll be changing the fuel pump and the fuel line as it has been kinked in a couple spots and was routed outside of the water pump housing rather than underneath it.

https://i.ibb.co/cb4TVmw/IMG-8048.jpg
Looks like the late 10E cars might also have gotten a 70 style thermostat housing with #3972128 rather than a 660 housing?

https://i.ibb.co/bPMtt3v/IMG-8049.jpg
I'll soak this in carb cleaner for a couple of days and clean it up for reuse.

https://i.ibb.co/98LsDQw/IMG-8050.jpg
I'll also clean up this AC Delco 195 degree thermostat and test it before I reuse it.

https://i.ibb.co/6PxxJm4/IMG-8051.jpg
Debating whether I'll pull the motor right out to get better access to cleaning up the inner fenders and the hard lines which were crudely painted.

https://i.ibb.co/SrLCkhm/IMG-8052.jpg
I'll try washing the inner fenders down with enamel reducer to see if I can knock it back a bit and rid the drip lines they created when they painted them.

https://i.ibb.co/Z6N5JsD/IMG-8053.jpg
I'll also remove the battery tray and treat it to a bath in evapo rust to clean it up a bit. Overall the engine bay just needs a good clean up to unfluff it a bit.

[ALLZS]

What style & color are the fuel line clips on the rear frame rail

[napa68]

I'd pull it GW. I think you'll be so much happier with the results later on. Even though you are not restoring, the cleaning and detail process will be so much easier and effective.

Besides.................I want this thread to keep going:)

Nice work so far!

[x33rs]

Thanks for that info Mark.

I did some searching to see if there was an early title listed in their DMV but those attempts came back clear with no titles showing in NC. Also did an InstaVIN report which showed some title information from PA that dates back to 1970, but nothing earlier than that. This morning I called the number above and was transferred to a girl in Antique Vehicles for NC DMV.

They only keep records back to the 90's and that may be why earlier searches came up blank. She took the VIN and is going to request a MicroFilm search on the VIN to see if they have any earlier info on the car that may be in their older MF records. If it's there, she can update the file and share any previous info concerning an original title if it was in fact from NC. She told me it may take a while so I'll wait and see if anything comes from that request. I do appreciate the tip Mark, and will report back if I discover the original title, statement of origin or any possible dealer info.

Fingers are crossed. :scholar:

That doesn't make sense. I just went through this with the DMV a couple months ago with my 72 Chevelle, they do in fact keep records that far back. She found the original title and paperwork for mine complete with original owner information, but wouldn't share or send any information to me. Her excuse was a privacy act, and since I wasn't the original owner I was not entitled to any of the information. She said laws would only allow her to send this stuff to the original owner.

I hope you have better luck than I did.

[NorCam]

What style & color are the fuel line clips on the rear frame rail

Can't tell you what color they are because the PO fluffed the underside and painted it black when he put it back on the road prior to selling it. I'm about to pull the lines down and try and wash them up. The clips and fasteners will all be soaked in evapo rust to clean them up before going back on. With any luck the clips will show some more originality once cleaned up. The head markings on the bolts used on the rear frame rails are ER while the front sub frame has a couple mixed markings including an anchor style. Pics are from back of car to front.

https://i.ibb.co/sKNMM5D/IMG-8056.jpg
Back upper frame above axle

https://i.ibb.co/4FS4xSb/IMG-8055.jpg
Back vertical rail above front of axle

https://i.ibb.co/2YR9Ndx/IMG-8058.jpg
Crossover clamp ahead of spring perches

https://i.ibb.co/kxYfqbt/IMG-8059.jpg
Outer rocker mount mid chassis location

https://i.ibb.co/B4s10Vm/IMG-8060.jpg
Front outer sub frame

https://i.ibb.co/K5HbPfP/IMG-8061.jpg
front outer sub frame closest to RF wheel

[ALLZS]

great let me know what you find thanks

[m22mike]

x2 on removing the engine, to much aggravation trying to work around it, you will be glad you did. And with that said you could paint the inner fenders at that point.
Now git er done Graeme :beers:


Mike

[NorCam]

Ahhh I knew you guys were both gonna say that. :Charley:

The engine tilter was actually placed on the intake yesterday and I was leaning on doing that. Also thinking of a cam swap and some other maintenance. I'll pull the motor later in the week. :naughty:

[RPOLS3]

Scope creep already...……...

[NorCam]

Scope creep already...……...

I know right. I've been trying to tell myself to stay grounded and not go too far with this thing. I'll have another good look at it tomorrow and see how just how much detailing I want to do around the engine to make a final decision on that front.

[Ryan1969Chevelle]

Pull it!!!!

That way you can access the body mount bolts easily.

Ryan W31

[NorCam]

Pull it!!!!

That way you can access the body mount bolts easily.

Ryan W31

:rolleyes:

I'm not pulling the sub frame...and I'm not restoring this car. :bs::bs::bs:

[napa68]

:rolleyes:

I'm not pulling the sub frame...and I'm not restoring this car. :bs::bs::bs:

I've got my money on project creep!!!!!

[RPOLS3]

:rolleyes:

I'm not pulling the sub frame...and I'm not restoring this car. :bs::bs::bs:


Famous last words...……….

[NorCam]

If I was a betting man....(bahaha) I'd be giving Tim all my money. :burnout:

Actually, today I am looking at some low toxicity (Non Methylene Chloride) chemical paint strippers. Much along the lines of Lloyds Fight Back graffiti removers that will spray on and wipe off in just a few minutes to take off spray paint and should leave the original finish (leave on overnight for a complete strip). Not sure that will work on the inner fenders, but the cling to version should work excellent on the frame rails, as well as all of hard lines w/o the need to remove them completely. Maybe giving the lines a brushing to loosen thicker material and recoat but might work well. Once it's done the work, it simply washes off with water to neutralize it. All of the hard line clips could then go into a bucket of chemical paint stripper to soak and remove the paint. These two processes might clean things up rather nicely. Products come bulk form or in aerosol cans and it's definitely worth a try.

I'll know how this works later in the week as I plan on testing a couple products first. If it works on a couple spot tests. I'll get the bulk material and go to town on the underside.

[napa68]

I've been experimenting with diesel fuel and Go Jo hand cleaner on the bottom of the car. The hand cleaner is nice because it clings to the surface. Seems to be gentle enough on the original finish.

I also purchased a smaller steam cleaner ($200) for the chassis and engine compartment work. It's a good complement to the aforementioned products. Certainly, the spiral cover on the brake and fuel lines can be tedious.

Carry on Graeme!

[Edgemontvillage]

... I'll be changing the fuel pump and the fuel line as it has been kinked in a couple spots and was routed outside of the water pump housing rather than underneath it....


Since you plan to change the fuel pump you might want to re-paint the bolt-on plate between the block and the fuel pump body low gloss black as per the factory.

[32KZ]

Famous last words...……….

7 years ago, was just gonna freshen the paint,,,then it came back,,,just clean up the engine compartment,,maybe remove some undercoating,,

Frame off, all fasteners , well everything re-finished,,should be done this spring.

[NorCam]

7 years ago, was just gonna freshen the paint,,,then it came back,,,just clean up the engine compartment,,maybe remove some undercoating,,

Frame off, all fasteners , well everything re-finished,,should be done this spring.

Funny how that happens isn't it? Maybe you can tell us a little about the car you're restoring and post a couple pics. I always like to see what people are working on too. Is it a Z...what color...what interior?

[32KZ]

Ashgold 68z,,quite a bit on CRG,,jano

[R68GTO]

:rolleyes:

I'm not pulling the sub frame...and I'm not restoring this car. :bs::bs::bs:

I think those were the exact words I said:hmmm: I sense there are some paranormal forces at work in our car hobby.:no:

[NorCam]

Just so that it is said, this car is in such remarkable condition for it's age that it really does not need to come apart or be restored. Body mounts are still very nice, there's no rust to be addressed and all it really needs is a good cleaning of the frame rails and suspension to dial it in. I'm picking up a fresh pail of evapo-rust today and plan to soak the original front springs which I may actually reuse since they are in such nice condition. I'll clean and strip all the original hard lines and get them dialed back to look like they should. Also picked up a new Bio-Agent that will strip the paint from all of the clips and fasteners and hopefully clean them up without harming any original plating that remains? More on that after some tests are performed.

I picked up a couple new cleaning agents yesterday and will remove the exhaust system later today so that I can get at the rear frame rails and will see how well the Lloyd's Fight Back Graffiti remover does to address removal of the previous owners spray paint work (one layer at a time). If that works out I will slowly work my way forward from there and take it one section at a time. Of course this all depends on the performance of the cleaners, reducers or whatever is needed to accomplish the cleaning this car deserves. I do not want to paint the underside nor do I think the car needs it.

In dealing with the diff, I'll pull it out so that I can thoroughly clean it and touch it up as needed. That will allow me to drop the rear springs and completely dial them back to stock factory appearance using the chemicals at hand. I will then treat them to Boeshield T-9 to coat the springs and protect them once cleaned. Once all of the hard lines and e-brake cables are cleaned and addressed, I'll likely coat them with Boeshield as well. Last thing I want to do here is fully restore the bottom of the car. It simply doesn't need it and would be an injustice of sorts. I'm going to be keeping that front of mind as I clean and preserve the bottom of the car. If I can accomplish that w/o needing to remove the sub frame, then my mission will have been accomplished.

My next few posts should start to reveal some results being met. :dunno:

[big gear head]

This is just my thought and I don't mean to offend, but with all of the effort that you are putting into preserving the car, why would you add power steering to it when it isn't supposed to have it? I've been driving my big block '69 for 35 years with no power steering and it isn't hard to steer.

[NorCam]

No offence taken Freddie.

Adding it simply because I like power steering, and it's only a couple hours to put it on or take off at any point if I sell the car and the new caretaker doesn't want the power steering on it. It's not a big deal and doesn't alter the car in any permanent way so I am good with that.

[cook_dw]

Same lines as Freddie - Hard as it may seem - No offense to what you are doing. Everyone does their cars how they wanna do them no right or wrongs.

Curious your direction. Are you preserving this car or doing a light restoration? The hard part for preservation is you would not repaint anything but thoroughly clean and "hence" preserve the component/s or vehicle. In my honest opinion refinishing parts is not preservation. IF you have to replace items for whatever reason that is fine but I would struggle refinishing a component or part.

[NorCam]

Cleaning and then Preserving

Not planning on refinishing anything. Zero paint is the plan and cleaning only up to a satisfactory point w/o stripping anything bare in terms of frame rails or panels. The fuel line, brake lines and cables will be stripped to clear finish and coated to prevent rust, but not using paint of any sort. Au natural

Any fasteners will be stripped back to original finish only including hard line clips.

I think I clearly identified the plan in Post #149 and will stick to that. The only mention of refinishing anything was reference to touching up the diff. And that means the area stripped to reveal the stamp where I will blow that section in to cover the bare metal.

All good here. :beers:

[cook_dw]

Good luck with your project.

[Zedder]

Glad to hear that you are adding power steering as I much prefer that at my age...so when you tire of this one and I buy it I won't have to do that myself :)

[NorCam]

Glad to hear that you are adding power steering as I much prefer that at my age...so when you tire of this one and I buy it I won't have to do that myself :)

:Can-I-Have-It: too funny. I can add you to the growing line Mark :Can-I-Have-It:

[Zedder]

:Can-I-Have-It: too funny. I can add you to the growing line Mark :Can-I-Have-It:

Please do! I just hope they don't take my 67 Camaro lovers card away from me!!!

[NorCam]

Got a bottle of rum, a little mix, bag of ice, some chemicals and a tarp. Guess you know where I'll be hiding this cold winter weekend. Time to start cleaning.

https://i.ibb.co/sjCGr2x/IMG-8136.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/sHy4ts9/IMG-8137.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/0KTLtYM/IMG-8139.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/3MvpHjW/IMG-8138.jpg

[NorCam]

Been soaking some parts in this Walters CB-100 parts cleaner and things are looking much better. The original fuel and brake line clips look like they were blue and now I can see the original stamps and sizing with the black paint removed. Bolts will clean up a bit better and and are now soaking in Evapo-rust. I cut the crappy exhaust system off and that gave me a better look at all the floors and a clear view of the drive shaft. Found the orange/white stripes right were they are supposed to be but was it was tough holding the tape, work light and camera at the same time so this was the best shot I could get for now. Floors are real nice and can now be properly cleaned. Wife's B-Day today...gotta go spend some time with her and stay out of the penalty box so hopefully more tomorrow...

https://i.ibb.co/wYDBwcd/PC001.jpg
Clips after coming out of the wash.

https://i.ibb.co/pJzP2yt/PC002.jpg
Cleaned some other parts up as well.

https://i.ibb.co/J382q3s/PC004.jpg
Found the driveshaft stripes. Orange & White

https://i.ibb.co/HPYQWKV/PC005.jpg
They measured about 13" back from the center of the front u-joint

https://i.ibb.co/LZKqDsq/PC006.jpg
Here's a clear look at the front floors.

https://i.ibb.co/kGBbFCV/PC008.jpg
And a view from the back once the exhaust was dropped

https://i.ibb.co/kGQpNVK/PC010.jpg
Grey primer under the hanger brackets

https://i.ibb.co/wy5CrBz/PC009.jpg
What is this bracket on the inside of the frame rail for? Exhaust bracket for a base model that's always there?

[m22mike]

Great stuff, awesome looking floor pan.
I think that bracket is for one of the OE exhaust systems, maybe a single ?

Mike

[ZLP955]

Mike's correct, standard single exhaust hanger that came on all '69 Camaros.
Got it confirmed via this CRG thread, as mine was partially cut out: http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=12901

[NorCam]

Thanks guys. I assumed it was something like that. Just don't recall ever really noticing one on my earlier Z/28 cars. Might have been there...just didn't ever look or notice one before.

[firstgenaddict]

The Valve covers with unequal length recess slots on the top rail are 1973 and later the unequal "longer slot is for accommodation of the EGR provision on the intake manifolds.
The date inside the cover says 86.
The early L46 Z28 had no drippers and equal recess slots on the top rail -even my Nov 1969 assembled L46 corvette had no dripper covers. -
the 70 Z28 LT1 and Deuce covers had twist in cap equal length recess slots and drippers
71-72 had equal slots, smooth round hole for PUSH IN Rubber oil fill, and drippers
73 and UP L82 Z28 has unequal slots twist in cap and drippers.

[NorCam]

That some great info Jag.

As an aside, it's been discussed here as well as a bit more in depth over on CRG where it's noted that some late built cars comparable with this 10E (Last week of Norwood production) have already shown up with a number of the cars having 70 style dripper covers on them.

At this point in time, 1970 parts were already in full production and did begin to appear on both Camaro's as well as Corvettes. Same holds true for a couple members here with cars built the same week who have contacted me and also have early dripper style covers. From the dates on the covers that came on this particular car, it's since been determined a previous owner must have updated the covers to an over the counter set at some point. I'm really not in any rush to change them right now, but when I do find a set of survivor 70 style early covers such as the 3965543 & 3965544 covers shown below, I will in all likeliness be changing them out.

Other parts on this Nov 3rd car including the bell housing and thermostat cover also share part numbers with the 70 Z/28. Thank you for adding the valve cover info. Lessons on part numbers and change orders are always appreciated. As always...I'm still learning here. :scholar:

https://i.ibb.co/L9cwyr6/Mvc-003s.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/52DFfYb/Mvc-002s.jpg

[NorCam]

Between working on underside of the car, I've been busy cleaning other parts including the smog components. I sent the pump off to Bill hodel where he took it apart to remove the veins from the pump so it's functional looking but doesn't pump air any longer. The tubes will be blocked off so everything looks right when I reassemble it, but also won't be popping or backfiring either. The internal parts have been kept so it can be returned to functional service if needed. The pump has been mildly cleaned and detailed to match up with the cars motor having been rebuilt and painted, as have most of the other parts. In cleaning the hoses and check valves it's easy to see everything is original, but is all over the place with dating.

The 7801149 Smog Pump is dated 293rd day of 69 while it was equipped with an early style 29295 Diverter Valve. Both appeared to have always been together and had very similar aging where where nothing looked to have been changed at any point? In addition, the bolts all looked to have never been apart nor did the original gaskets when I separated them for cleaning. Bill Hodel and I discussed the hoses as well since they are dated quite early. Again, they don't appear to have ever been apart and also have mixed clamps with most being 3/69 dated and only one having an earlier 1/69 date.

As I have now learned with a late built car, one can expect the unexpected so I am not going to start switching things around as the parts all appear to have been married to each other for quite some time and I am told that all sorts of oddities exist with late cars where they scrambled to find parts to complete the assemblies. In discussing the hoses further, Bill had said these early hoses and quite rare and very hard to find. The hoses are are 3932476 marked RC GM with a dotted Box and the short hose is 3932478. They have correct 5361992 check valves, and I have all the correct brackets and original RBS marked for the system. Still working on the original smog rails to clean them up to where I am happy with them. More on those at a later date.


https://i.ibb.co/3p8ytz9/IMG-8200.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/qdFQ2LL/IMG-8201.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/S08gsB5/IMG-8197.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/vQ44Ryd/IMG-8186.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/q1n78Pd/IMG-8189.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/GsY1NXM/IMG-8190.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/wMM0CwV/IMG-8187.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/FqKmdMP/IMG-8191.jpg

[Ryan1969Chevelle]

I want to send my car to your place or A12Pilot for next winter to go bananas on the details!!!

This is serious!!

Ryan W31

[NorCam]

Cleaning and detailing is definitely not my favorite task Ryan.:thumbsdown:

I spent a couple hours under the car this afternoon and while I might not have gotten very far with cleaning, I am seeing some great results. First was a bit of degreasing followed by a few passes with the graffiti remover. It actually works pretty well on the floors and has left this au natural finish which looks a little aged. Exactly what I was shooting for, but there's a lot left to do before I'm close to being finished. Here's one section of the passenger side floor and tunnel area which cleaned up rather nicely.

https://i.ibb.co/rQt2zTV/IMG-8208.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/Q70CwLX/IMG-8209.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/nLz2nJC/IMG-8210.jpg

[Salvatore]

Great pictures Graeme. Great for documentation. Nice job!

[R68GTO]

Looks similar to my floors when cleaned up....very gray looking vs black

[napa68]

Bravo GW! Hold on a minute while I go get another beer.......

[NorCam]

Is that all you retired guys do is groom trails driving rigs like these, work on cars throughout the night when insomnia sets in and drink beer all winter long? :Charley:

https://scontent.fyxd2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/80763562_839938363124996_6833510009813336064_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=111&_nc_eui2=AeEhCKxEQoP4mnbNHW5gVfEeZuWJemNnYkShcea_i l9OYEqRvdQsTbnnKTnXDRzgfXI73CZAXyjyYQX5xX8vg5rHL-PnDfavPms1b6nVCfdQWQ&_nc_ohc=zUmIFFA6NM0AQloaXWQICveyUIGnOcaLakVfFgo5Dp VbmzGZV7-o3J4Xg&_nc_ht=scontent.fyxd2-1.fna&oh=0e28128f976c9d9564c7db7820e7c84a&oe=5E674D83

[Tracker1]

Good plans Graeme

[Crush]

Is that all you retired guys do is groom trails driving rigs like these, work on cars throughout the night when insomnia sets in and drink beer all winter long? :Charley:

https://scontent.fyxd2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/80763562_839938363124996_6833510009813336064_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=111&_nc_eui2=AeEhCKxEQoP4mnbNHW5gVfEeZuWJemNnYkShcea_i l9OYEqRvdQsTbnnKTnXDRzgfXI73CZAXyjyYQX5xX8vg5rHL-PnDfavPms1b6nVCfdQWQ&_nc_ohc=zUmIFFA6NM0AQloaXWQICveyUIGnOcaLakVfFgo5Dp VbmzGZV7-o3J4Xg&_nc_ht=scontent.fyxd2-1.fna&oh=0e28128f976c9d9564c7db7820e7c84a&oe=5E674D83

Is that what Tim is doin now? I thought he was running for Mayor??
Live it up!!

[napa68]

You guys................LMAO!

[napa68]

Is that all you retired guys do is groom trails driving rigs like these, work on cars throughout the night when insomnia sets in and drink beer all winter long? :Charley:

https://scontent.fyxd2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/80763562_839938363124996_6833510009813336064_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=111&_nc_eui2=AeEhCKxEQoP4mnbNHW5gVfEeZuWJemNnYkShcea_i l9OYEqRvdQsTbnnKTnXDRzgfXI73CZAXyjyYQX5xX8vg5rHL-PnDfavPms1b6nVCfdQWQ&_nc_ohc=zUmIFFA6NM0AQloaXWQICveyUIGnOcaLakVfFgo5Dp VbmzGZV7-o3J4Xg&_nc_ht=scontent.fyxd2-1.fna&oh=0e28128f976c9d9564c7db7820e7c84a&oe=5E674D83

One needs to set reasonable goals in order to accomplish them!

[X66 714]

Never seen any of that equipment in Tucson. What's it used for? :)

[L72Biscayne]

That some great info Jag.

As an aside, it's been discussed here as well as a bit more in depth over on CRG where it's noted that some late built cars comparable with this 10E (Last week of Norwood production) have already shown up with a number of the cars having 70 style dripper covers on them.

At this point in time, 1970 parts were already in full production and did begin to appear on both Camaro's as well as Corvettes. Same holds true for a couple members here with cars built the same week who have contacted me and also have early dripper style covers. From the dates on the covers that came on this particular car, it's since been determined a previous owner must have updated the covers to an over the counter set at some point. I'm really not in any rush to change them right now, but when I do find a set of survivor 70 style early covers such as the 3965543 & 3965544 covers shown below, I will in all likeliness be changing them out.

Other parts on this Nov 3rd car including the bell housing and thermostat cover also share part numbers with the 70 Z/28. Thank you for adding the valve cover info. Lessons on part numbers and change orders are always appreciated. As always...I'm still learning here. :scholar:

https://i.ibb.co/L9cwyr6/Mvc-003s.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/52DFfYb/Mvc-002s.jpg

Back in 1989 I purchased NOS covers for my 70 LT-1 Corvette. the part numbers on the box were 3965541 -542 but the part numbers under the covers were the 3965543-544. just like the ones you show in the photo. Curious to why the different part numbers? They both have the equal 3 inch length slots and twist in oil cap.

[NorCam]

Sounds like you got an old stock set of covers and not the later renditions made in the 80's where the part numbers had changed. I'd like to find an NOS set of the ones shown above. But nope...gotta stop shelling out the dough as I've been spending away like a drunken sailor.

Somebody else said that a month ago and the phrase has now stuck. (lol)

[Crush]

It’s only money.... you can make more!!

[NorCam]

That's what a friend of mine used to say.

Don't worry about money, you can always word hard and make more.

It's pretty mild up here for weather this week so I'll likely spend the next couple days making more progress on the car. Today I'll continue with cleaning the underside. With the mild temps I'll be able to pop the doors open to clear the fumes and keep some fresh air about the shop. It's a little harder to do when it's well into the minus temps, but the next couple days are all above freezing here. More to come...

[ALLZS]

when you removed the rear frame fuel line clamps what style where they did they have the tab that pulled into the frame

[L72Biscayne]

Back in 1989 I purchased NOS covers for my 70 LT-1 Corvette. the part numbers on the box were 3965541 -542 but the part numbers under the covers were the 3965543-544. just like the ones you show in the photo. Curious to why the different part numbers? They both have the equal 3 inch length slots and twist in oil cap.

There is a set on E bay item number 114014491902 for 150.00

[NorCam]

when you removed the rear frame fuel line clamps what style where they did they have the tab that pulled into the frame

Just got around to pulling the rear clips off the rear frame rails today. Clips are again blue and they did leave blue paint on the bare frame where the clips were removed from. Both clips have the rear tabs but they were both folded in and were not engaged into the holes of the rear rails. Was this the norm on the rear clips? I always thought the tabs would have been engaged but these were not. Pics of the two fuel line clips just removed.

https://i.ibb.co/nPFmMhX/IMG-8224.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/TMVdH5s/IMG-8225.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/GnfHzZ3/IMG-8226.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/BtNLgGY/IMG-8227.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/PcPPgsS/IMG-8229.jpg

[Salvatore]

Testors transparent blue is a real good match for those fuel line clamps.

[NorCam]

Continuing with cleaning the floors...one section at a time. Slow and tedious work but is going to look so much better once its all done. Definitely worth the effort.

https://i.ibb.co/V23h3br/IMG-8236.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/9vTvPSK/IMG-8238.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/rH2sbmS/IMG-8242.jpg

[R68GTO]

Your floors are looking great Graeme! Cleaning them is slow, tedious, but very rewarding work. I'm curious on your comment about blue paint transfer from the fuel line clip. Clean the frame rail around the clip, I suspect you will find the same bluish hue from a combination of gray primer and LB overspray. That's what I found in that area on my car. Here's a couple of pics from mine that show the floors after cleaning. One pic is where the driveshaft loop was installed when the car was new. All of my clips had the tang engaged in the frame hole, none were folded over.

[NorCam]

Those clips were off the rear inside frame rail and doubt any lemans blue paint would have gotten up there above the diff on the inside of the rails? I thought the blue paint traces on the frame was simply the blue from the clips maybe having transferred surfaces from any moisture that the car might have seen from early road use. In any case...it's all good.

Also had the chance to soak the original front springs in evapo-rust for the past week and it cleaned them up rather nicely. Even the original paper tags came out clean after being in there for a week w/o eating the labels. I think these will be going back onto the car when I get to the front end. First I'll have to see if I can find a set of NOS lower ball joints to replace the service units that were installed when the springs were swapped out. That would at least have it back to stock.

https://i.ibb.co/hfd0c2z/IMG-8285.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/KxzM2m6/IMG-8286.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/wS88s5C/IMG-8287.jpg

[napa68]

Beautiful work Graeme!

[NorCam]

A little update on the car after taking a break over the holidays for some needed family time. Today I went through every single fastener on the car and the good news is that there isn't much that's missing at all. The bad news is so much of it was painted and fluffed then they redid the motor. That now it has me wanting to strip and clean each fastener to do it right. Next up, I'll be removing the driveline in order to get at all of the areas where it was painted and fluffed. The black paint is actually coming off nicely since they never prepped anything, but I hate working around things like suspension and driveline so all of that will be coming out this week. I looked at all the subframe bushings today and they are all really decent except one on the back of the driver's side where the bottom rubber needs replaced. More to come.

https://i.ibb.co/yXTmy6p/IMG-8442.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/kgm4Mvm/IMG-8443.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/xM4z5LR/IMG-8444.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/HVSgFCS/IMG-8445.jpg

[NorCam]

Just unhooked the shifter and pulled the manifolds for some refinishing. Now I'll pull the ignition and motor mount bolts and then it's all coming out. Depending on how accessible everything becomes, I may take it a step further later in the week and pull the front clip. I really want to do a thorough clean up on this car and don't like taking short cuts.

https://i.ibb.co/wKsyvjP/IMG-7950.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/4s7KHFS/IMG-8479.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/XY5G5pW/IMG-8480.jpg

[big gear head]

I wish I enjoyed cleaning as much as you. I've got everything out of my car right now, but I hate cleaning.

[NorCam]

Pull the two ground straps, fuel line, add the tilter and it's ready for plucking. Just added 250 new songs to my music list for the shop. Time to get busy!!!

https://i.ibb.co/NrcNWqp/IMG-8485.jpg

[luv2sixty9]

Graeme,

What are the dates on your exhaust manifolds? Thanxs Dave

[NorCam]

Tough to read the driver side Dave, but the #3942527 looks like it's dated A 30 9 if I am seeing it right. It is pretty tough to discern the rough date casting on the drivers' side. The passenger #3946826 is a little cleaner and looks like E 9 9 but that may, in fact, be F if that date makes sense?

https://i.ibb.co/R9YXpR1/A-30-9.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/ctPr8zT/E-9-9.jpg

[NorCam]

I was thinking of having my buddy tumble these in his shop. He did an intake on my 68 a couple of years ago and it came out looking great with a factory perfect finish. Has anyone here ever tumbled a set of cast manifolds?

I think Jerry M tumbles them during his restoration process, but that's a huge shipping bill for me to send them from here so I might see how these do at my buddy's shop.

[Salvatore]

Good work NorCam.

[NorCam]

I decided to stay focused on the rear half of the car and dropped the fuel tank and the rear diff out to get better access to cleaning the floors. Once the floors and the springs are cleaned up, the diff will get the same treatment and all the hard lines will be semi-restored before going back onto the frame rails and diff housing. When I dropped the fuel tank, I saw these numbers "47" written in red if that means anything?

https://i.ibb.co/0KGX1kN/IMG-8505.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/rwgF1kw/IMG-8506.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/PcwJFb1/IMG-8531.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/f4Y1wnB/IMG-8507.jpg

[NorCam]

With the differential pulled and set aside for clean up, I started looking at the springs and saw this crack on the lower spring on the drivers side. I pulled both pieces and will have to get a new one made to replace it. I now have really good access to everything out back and will get all this cleaned up over the next week or two before it starts going back together.

https://i.ibb.co/r29P6Cx/IMG-8537.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/rxSXqBK/IMG-8528.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/SwcQ635/IMG-8529.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/jkqPKqC/IMG-8530.jpg

[R68GTO]

I think the 47 is a sequence number used on he assembly line. Mine had a "3" in a similar location. I'm curious if you have a mill stencil on your tank similar to mine. I had to do quite a bit of cleaning to get to it.

[m22mike]

Graeme
That #47 sequence number my also be on top of your heater box ?
Maybe look with a mirror and a light ?
Nice work.

Mike

[Rumbleguts396]

Graeme I am truly enjoying watching you dismantle and clean , yet not restore this special Camaro. Thanks for taking us along for the ride. Rob

[NorCam]

Thanks for that Rob.

It really is fun cleaning up a car in this condition and trying to dial it back just a couple of steps. The more I get into this one, the more I like what's hiding in there. Around every corner, there's another little reveal and that is very satisfying. Glad you're enjoying the ride.

Happy New Year to you. G.

[duskblue]

My 69 l78 has 804 on the inside of one of the rally wheels and also on the transmission cross member, I think its a job number. the car has the green T P B stamp on the firewall and I think the green might be night shift ?

[NorCam]

Yes...it is my understanding that the orange PTB stamps were from the day shift and the green was from the night shift. I'll look at the transmission cross member when I get to cleaning it up and will see if I can find any original crayon markings under the paint. The wheels all appear to be unrestored on the backs and I will clean those at some point to see if there are any more numbers to be found. There's a very good chance there will be other markings revealed as this process goes on.

Heading out to the shop to spend the afternoon working on the car. No better way to spend a new year's day.

[NorCam]

In talking with Jeff a couple of weeks ago, he mentioned that the previous owner sprayed the undercarriage black in order to cover up excess LB overspray that had hit the undercarriage when the 3rd owner had it repainted. In dialing back this black paint, I am finding Lemans Blue overspray on the outer frame rails, rear leaf springs and the lower surface of the fuel tank. I'm having to make multiple passes with chemicals to get to through all the paint so progress is pretty slow.

The original tank was painted black and I'm using some low VOC paint stripper to take off the layers of paint including the lemans blue overspray that's hiding beneath the black. Here's a couple of pics of the fuel tank being stripped and the rear leaf springs which are cleaning up nicely. If the tank comes clean and presents itself well, I will clean and seal the inside before having a paintless dent guy attempt to pull the large dent on the underside. If that doesn't yield the results I'm looking for, it will be getting a new fuel tank. As for the big dent in the original tank, I'm assuming someone had a jack slip at one point and it dented the rear of the tank rather nicely. I also pulled the 3/8" fuel line from the car today and I'm working that back to a natural finish as well. Easier said than done though. (lol)

Heading back to the shop now. :worship:

https://i.ibb.co/xg9GVPX/IMG-8550.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/z6qcm95/IMG-8556.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/pXXZvBV/IMG-8558.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/9bvDRNg/IMG-8544.jpg

[X66 714]

If it's the original tank, I'm pretty sure it shouldn't have any paint on it...Joe

[NorCam]

Cutting through another section with Lemans Blue overspray. It's obvious the guy who sprayed this car last, didn't bother with drop sheets to protect from overspray (grrrrr). The second image shows the middle of the tank after the paint is removed. That big dent is located right below the filler spout and sits up against the rear valance. It makes for a real eyesore and if it doesn't pull out clean, I'll be storing this one away in favor of a new tank.

https://i.ibb.co/28FgCHv/IMG-8561.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/6WnCff5/IMG-8562.jpg

[napa68]

Love it GW!

[mockingbird812]

Nice work Graeme. To me the dent tells a story as does the rest of the patina on your beautiful mount!

[olredalert]

----Agree with Sam here, Graeme. Too minor a dent to replace. You are striving for a cleaned up very original ride. JMHO but treat it that way. Don't even try to take the dent out. It happened, stuff happens!......Bill S

[NorCam]

Yes...

You guys are both correct. I'll continue cleaning it up, will seal the inside and hang it back in the car without trying to remove the dent. Thanks for the lil' nudge as you guys are spot on, and that helps keep me on point. Thank you for chiming in.

:worship::worship::worship:

[Tracker1]

Agree with all, leave the dent, put it back in place. Nice work Graeme

[big gear head]

Sorry, I can't help myself, but I wouldn't change it to power steering either. If you aren't going to change things, then don't change things.

[GrumpyJeff]

Any decent PDR guy could get that dent out in 5 minutes !

[NorCam]

Sorry, I can't help myself, but I wouldn't change it to power steering either. If you aren't going to change things, then don't change things.

Yup...got that Freddie. And just to clarify, I am adding it. :3gears:

[Zedder]

It’s interesting to see the various perspectives on what to do with a particular car. I love this car for what it is...a super clean 69 Z in cool colors. Would I like it less with a new gas tank? Absolutely not. To me, once a car is repainted, little changes to improve the car doesn’t bother me in the least. The dented tank would bug me and I would wonder if it might be weakened in some way from the dent. That would make me change it and save it for the next owner if they wanted to put it back in.

I also am wary of keeping original parts that might fail and cause damage if I was going to drive the car. The example that I keep remembering was in 1997 at the NCRS regional at Bowling Green. I was learning how to judge in the C3 Bow Tie class and a guy had a 74 vert with sub 2,500 miles and original tires. He didn’t bring another set for his PV test and decided to do it with his original Tires. As luck would have it, he blew a rear tire during the test and busted his left rear quarter panel! He nearly cried...

[NorCam]

Pulled the engine and trans out today to further access to cleaning and detailing. Things are progressing along but not at breakneck speed. Having fun though, I am. Once the engine was out. I was able to get a clear shot of the casting date on the back of the block. Adding that picture here for reference purposes. It closely matches the front stamp which I had not posted earlier. Block was cast 8 days earlier than it was stamped on the front pad for the build date.


https://i.ibb.co/BNJ23sJ/IMG-8609.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/VJ5Rxqx/IMG-8668.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/LvQ9qRC/IMG-8669.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/9W4VSG2/IMG-8709.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/Czx4h2f/IMG-8707.jpg

[NorCam]

With the hood off and the engine out, I got into the engine bay to get a better look at things. I also took some better pictures of the stamps and the firewall piercings for the speedo cable and cowl hood wiring. Even found this CF marking on the speedo cable.

https://i.ibb.co/tXdRZ6p/IMG-8679.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/S5LqQ7Q/IMG-8675.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/fkHCwdn/IMG-8676.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/wBdLTw7/IMG-8677.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/6mWHSB7/IMG-8680.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/W35Jmft/IMG-8695.jpg

[NorCam]

At the same time, I also snapped a couple of pictures of the 309 D3 master cylinder and the 9204 brake booster. The brake booster is dated 268 while the US stamped 309 master cylinder looks to be dated 174. It was really hard to see these numbers until I rubbed a little paint off where the date was cast. Pretty sure it says 174. Going to remove the hard lines now and continue cleaning them up to remove any black paint.

https://i.ibb.co/YtBW15j/IMG-8673.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/C1XFFbr/IMG-8674.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/k4T635j/IMG-8672.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/XWQ3DNc/IMG-8671.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/99BqGkm/IMG-8684.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/CK6YZ84/IMG-8694.jpg

[NorCam]

Transmission is now on the bench. Checked out the original 660 case which is mint with no damage ever to the front mounting ears, and no evidence of ever being abused. Of course, it has the 584 tail housing and 648 side cover, but what is awesome is that all factory hardware with correct head markings are still intact. Even has the original front bearing retainer locks, factory tag on the cover, and looks like the shifter mount has never been off. Going to continue cleaning the floors in the tunnel before this goes back in.

https://i.ibb.co/nQxCTsW/IMG-8696.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/qrjNLrc/IMG-8698.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/Ldp7kTj/IMG-8700.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/JH8S2BY/IMG-8702.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/qdLyTXk/IMG-8703.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/4782vJ3/IMG-8704.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/VH3C62P/IMG-8705.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/x74Q6V7/IMG-8706.jpg

[ZLP955]

Pulled the engine and trans out today to further access to cleaning and detailing.
https://i.ibb.co/BNJ23sJ/IMG-8609.jpg

Graeme thanks for sharing these great details. What are those markings on the wiper motor case? Possibly a rebuild sticker but is that some sort of ink stamp next to it, partly obscured by the engine lift bracket?

[NorCam]

That was a rebuilt unit Tim, and I have no idea why it was in there? The original motor & pump came with the car and it tested fine on the bench. That rebuilt unit is already out of there and the original is going back in after I clean things up.

https://i.ibb.co/pX1skj0/IMG-8711.jpg

[NorCam]

The car appears to have most if not all original GM body and subframe bushings. For the most part, they all appear clean w/ no dry rotting except two which appear squashed and have some dry cracking. The front left rad support bushing almost looks like it was replaced with a NOS bushing as it's dead mint, but in saying that, 5 of the others appear untouched and they are very minty as well so who knows? If only cars could talk?


https://i.ibb.co/K9PMYD0/IMG-8716.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/Dp9Kv8Z/IMG-8442.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/ky2wfQ7/IMG-8443.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/jVd4PRL/IMG-8444.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/R4JyFRC/IMG-8714.jpg

[olredalert]

----I have to say that I have never seen a bushing with the word CHEVROLET cast on it. I have restored a couple of 69 Z's and probably missed that or they were already gone. Very cool!......Bill S

[NorCam]

----I have to say that I have never seen a bushing with the word CHEVROLET cast on it. I have restored a couple of 69 Z's and probably missed that or they were already gone. Very cool!......Bill S

All 6 bushings have Chevrolet on one side with the part numbers on the reverse side 180 degrees opposite.

[NorCam]

Slowly working my way through the car and started washing all the old grease off the front suspension today. Found traces of an old yellow paint mark on the center link. Where else might I be successful in finding original paint marks?

https://i.ibb.co/fDm5s9n/IMG-8766.jpg

[x33rs]

My Z is full of suspension paint markings. Lots of orange blobbed onto the back of the spindles, and one of them has some blue mixed in, my center link has white and some other color. My tie rods have some orange on them as well.

[Mr.Nickey Nova]

Outer tie rods should have some orange marks. My center link as a blue mark. Upper part of the spindles should have a white mark, mine does.

[R68GTO]

Norcam, I posted a few pics of what I found on mine on my car's thread.

[NorCam]

Thanks... I just took a look at those for reference. Also, love how that booster and the parts from Steve turned out. I keep looking at this one knowing that I'm running out of time getting Steve to do another for me. Real tempting but I think I just gotta leave well enough alone.

[R68GTO]

Tough to draw the line in the sand isn't it? Clean it up, evaporust the rust off and flat clear the bare spots, it will look much better.

[R68GTO]

All 6 bushings have Chevrolet on one side with the part numbers on the reverse side 180 degrees opposite.

The bushing thing got me curious so I went out and checked mine. Here's the pics of mine. Interesting that the part number is on the bushing twice, one large font, one small font. That ones a head scratcher:dunno:

[NorCam]

Never noticed that? I haven't looked too closely at them yet, nor have I looked at both sides but I am sure I will now. It's freezing a$$ cold up here this week and I have some business matters that are also calling for my attention. Never enough time in a day. lol

[cook_dw]

Tough to draw the line in the sand isn't it? Clean it up, evaporust the rust off and flat clear the bare spots, it will look much better.


*Personal preference and opinion*


No to flat clear!!! RPM or Rust Veto by Cosmoline on bare parts.

[NorCam]

*Personal preference and opinion*

No to flat clear!!! RPM or Rust Veto by Cosmoline on bare parts.

I like the idea of those suggestions Darrell. Was also looking at Boeshield T9


Developed this formula for long term protection of aircraft components. Penetrates to fasteners and fixtures, where it displaces moisture, and will even loosen rusted parts. Boeing recommends it for fuselage, wing, and tail structures, engines and cowlings, landing gear and gear wells, control linkages, and avionics. Dries to a clean waxy film. Lubricates and protects all metals for months. Safe on most paints, plastics & vinyls.

I will need to compare the choices and take the less is more approach to whatever leaves the cleanest finish. I don't mind the bare metal parts having wax-like protection on them, but don't want it too thick. Planning to coat the rear springs, front steering components, and the calipers once cleaned up.

[napa68]

Withdrawal has set in. 10 days and no updates! Weather and business are not suitable excuses! In the hospital? Too much Crown royal?

What up GW?

Need my fix!

[NorCam]

bahaha

Seriously...it was freakin cold (-38) here last week until the arctic deep freeze finally moved out. I was also busy doing year end books for the business and was building a new customer service counter in the front of our shop.

Sunday Jan 26 Update:

OK Tim,

Caught up with some business matters so I'm back onto the car. Well...for the 12 hours anyway. Next week is another matter as I still have a lot of business matters to deal with.

[NorCam]

Made it into plus temps here today so I got the doors opened to air out the shop while cleaning the bottom. The floors have really cleaned up nicely on the back half of the car. I removed most of the black spray paint along the frame rails and under the rear valance which was heavily fogged in when they sprayed the fuel tank black. In some places, a simple spray and wipe down with the graffiti remover revealed the original gray primer that was under the spray paint. This was quite evident under the tank, around the rear valance and along the backs and fronts edges of the rear frame rails where they must not have gotten much paint from the factory. I can see drip marks in a lot of the original primer and some blue overspray in other places.

I'm not going to take the cleaning any further than this on the back and I am quite happy that it's eliminated most if not all of the spray paint they hit the floors with. I'm now suspecting that this car had a lot of exposed grey primer up around the rear inner frame rails and the previous owners hit most of it with black spray paint to cover any bare spots and eliminate the grey. I say this because the stuff literally wiped right off any spots that were tough to originally coat at the factory. I still have some work to do on the outer rails and in the wheelhouses to knock back the gloss on the rust proofing they sprayed into the wheel wells. Once that's done I can coat some bare parts with rust shield, get the fuel line back onto the car and get the diff back under it. From there I will work forward and detail everything under the rockers while working up to the front of the car.

Lots of work still ahead, but definitely like where this is going. It's revealed its character so it has!

https://i.ibb.co/jv58MGm/Floors-1.jpg
Up in the air so I can clean the rear floors and frame rails.

https://i.ibb.co/5RQWQ4f/Floors-2.jpg
Still has the part numbers visible where they are stamped into the lower drops.

https://i.ibb.co/tbMPrXb/Floors-3.jpg
Got most of the back spray paint off the rear rails. Lot's of grey primer exposed here.

https://i.ibb.co/sQcG06y/Floors-4.jpg
Now showing the original black paint on the rear floors ahead of the tank. I took this shot before I cleaned the pass side frame rail.

https://i.ibb.co/y5nTVv9/Floors-5.jpg
How it's looking before the tank goes in. Straps are now soaking in stripper.

https://i.ibb.co/vvwkpD2/Floors-6.jpg
Nice and clean up in the rear tunnel area. Leaving it just like this.

https://i.ibb.co/P5T6jZn/Floors-7.jpg
Upside down to take this shot but you get the idea. Clean!

https://i.ibb.co/qgKT2V7/Floors-8.jpg
The bare spots tell me the exhaust hangers were in place before the factory sprayed the underside?

https://i.ibb.co/fdvnqMd/Floors-9.jpg
Thinking the inner rails were mostly grey when the fuel line went in since all of the straps are grey underneath?

https://i.ibb.co/7tgN9xk/Floors-10.jpg
Notice how this black spray paint wiped off to reveal all the grey? See those factory drip lines? It tells me these bodies were hung high on the front when they primed the body?

More when I get the diff back under the car later in the week. Then I'll double back towards the front of the car and detail anything missed on the first pass. Really having fun with this project, and love how things are revealing themselves. Big thanks to Mark Bulaw for the inspiration and tips on some of this.

[cook_dw]

Good read for those that haven't seen it before. Nice work on the rear tub. What did you use to remove the black spray paint? I might suggest adding a heavy coat of Meguiar's #7 to hydrate the old painted surfaces.


CRG Paint Process Article by John Hinckley (http://www.camaros.org/assemblyprocess.shtml)

"Fisher Body - Paint Shop Operations
The Paint Shop is broken down into phosphate, prime, sealing, and color departments; the body was suspended from an overhead conveyor with hooks at the firewall and at the ends of the rear frame rails through the phosphate system, and was transferred to a steel carrying truck before the prime system that carried it through the rest of the Paint Shop and through the Trim Shop.
Phosphate System: The raw body shell passed through a seven-stage phosphate system, where it went through a series of enclosed high-pressure hot spray stages where it was washed to remove all the oils and debris from stamping, welding, brazing, soldering, and grinding operations, then the body was coated with a hot iron phosphate solution which "etched" the metal and provided "teeth" for paint adhesion. The final stage was a de-ionized hot water rinse and blow-off, followed by a drying oven on the way to the prime booth.

Prime System: In the first prime booth, the entire body, inside and out, was manually sprayed with primer, and confined areas subject to corrosion were given a second coat of heavier primer material; this prime coat was then baked at 390F for 30 minutes. In the second prime booth, the instrument panel and rear of the shelf area (and the upper door and quarter areas of 1967-68 models) were painted interior color, and another coat of air-dry flash primer was sprayed from the belt line down. The interior color areas were masked, and the entire outer body was sprayed with gray primer-surfacer and the body was baked again at 285F for 45 minutes. The cowl vent panel was hung in the side window opening on wire hooks all the way through the paint process.

After baking, the entire outer surface was wet-sanded, wiped down, and the body went through a short infra-red dry-off oven on its way to the sealer deck.

Sealing: The primed and baked body passed through a long series of platforms where vinyl plastisol sealer was applied to all joints; floor pan drain hole plugs were installed and sealed, and the sealers were manually dressed in exposed areas. Floor pan deadener pads were then installed, which "melted" into place later in the color reflow oven. The body then went through a sealer oven to "set" the sealers on its way to the color booth.

Color System: The bodies were sequenced to "batch-paint" by color as much as the build schedule allowed, to minimize the waste of thinner required to clear paint guns between colors. The interior was masked off, the body exterior was tacked-off, and it then entered the main color booth, where it got three coats of acrylic lacquer, sprayed automatically with vertical and horizontal reciprocating spray guns, with a 3-minute "flash" between coats, followed by a 10-minute bake at 200F to "skin" the surface prior to sanding. In the next stage, any surface defects were power- and hand-wet-sanded with mineral spirits, then wiped off prior to entering the final "reflow" oven. This bake lasted 30 minutes at 275F, where the lacquer surface softened and "re-flowed" to a uniform gloss.

The last process for a non-stripe car was the blackout booth, where the firewall was blacked-out, the trunk was sprayed with spatter paint, and sound-deadening undercoat material was sprayed in the rear wheelhouses. The rear "cocktail shakers" on convertibles were suspended in the trunk for spatter painting, but weren't bolted in place until later in the Trim Shop, after the taillights and marker lights were installed.

If the car required Z28, Z10, or Z11 stripes or a black rear end panel or rockers, they were masked and manually sprayed in the in-line repair booth/oven system after the reflow oven, including the cowl vent panel; spoilers were painted body color separate from the body, and were final-installed to the deck lid just prior to the repair booth. The rear window filler panel, deck lid and spoiler were masked and sprayed stripe color in the repair booth, and baked in the repair oven before the body went back downstairs to the Trim Shop. The paint guns in the repair booth were fed from manifolds that were part of the main color circulating system so that the repair booth used exactly the same paint the main color booths were using.

If a unit required a major paint repair that couldn't be accommodated in the normal in-line cycle time, it could be diverted off the main line at the end of the repair booth into a parallel loop that ran in the opposite direction and fed the unit back into the main line ahead of the main repair booth; the re-run loop could accommodate about 20 units.

Paint System Information
The Fisher paint booth had pneumatically-driven overhead and side guns that reciprocated cross-car and up-down on trolleys, and were fed from manifolds on one side of the booth. Each booth had about 20 paint circulating systems fed from the main Paint Mix Room - usually 14-16 for standard colors and several others for thinner and one spare, and there were separate manifolds for hand-held manual spray guns used for interior and cut-ins. Every time that consecutive cars had different colors, all of those guns had to shoot thinner from the manifolds to the guns (through the floor grates) to clean out the previous color, then charge the line with the new color before they could spray again, and that had to take place in about four seconds.
Paint came from DuPont in 500-gallon tote tanks, with paint mixed from the same lot distributed to both the Fisher and Chevrolet paint shops to minimize color match and gloss issues between the body and the front sheet metal.

Special order paint colors were done by dragging 5-gallon pressurized paint pots through the booths and manually spraying everything; if there was a fleet or special order large enough, they charged one of the spare circulating systems, but that didn't happen very often - it didn't pay to charge a spare system for less than 100 cars."

[NorCam]

Read that once or twice before. It would be cool to see some pictures of them hooked from the priming process. The drips on the rear frame rail as well and from the tow boards back down under the floors tell me it must have been fairly high on the front hooks when it was sprayed.

All a very cool read on the subject. Thanks for posting that.

Does anyone know if the tubs went down the line on a 45-degree angle while hung for priming? The drip lines would suggest it was sprayed while hung near to that angle.


What did you use to remove the black spray paint?

Here is my product of choice for removing spray paint from the underside. The stuff works great but you have to respect it and use it in small areas to work it and keep it wet. It sprays on as a stream so you really have to control light bursts onto the subject area and watch where the spatter lands in case you need to neutralize any overspray or spatter. Once complete you can wipe it down with a rag before neutralizing it. It calls for a water rinse to neutralize it, but I opted to rinse it with brake clean after it was wiped down and then wiped it clean a second time after the brake clean was applied. Also, you'll need to be wearing gloves, good eye protection, and a proper mask while spraying in a confined area. Both chemicals are flammable and/or explosive if not controlled so you need clean air and no sparks while working with these products.

https://static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/11RK40_AS01?$zmmain$

[napa68]

Looking great Graeme!

[NorCam]

Can anyone tell me how these L/R rear axle stop brackets are supposed to be finished? I pulled both of these off and they had a bunch of spray paint on both sides so I dumped them into some cleaner degreaser and it softened the paint which then wiped right off and I think it may have taken these a step too far.

I'm assuming they were originally black from the factory and I'll be painting these again. Just want to make sure they weren't bare from the factory? I mean I like how they were cleaning up but doubt they were left unfinished from the General.

https://i.ibb.co/wpCWr5Z/IMG-8908.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/Hh3SXx7/IMG-8909.jpg

[ZLP955]

Nice to see such a solid underside. I recall crawling under mine and finding '12437' stamped in the floor near the axle pinion snubber, assumed that denoted coupe floorpan, and that a 'vert would have '12467'..... pretty sure I can just make out a similar stamping in your pictures.

[NorCam]

Cool...never even saw that one. Thanks

Looks like I can see the ending 437 followed by 141 which I'm assuming is the date code of the floor. I'll get clean shots of the stamps next time I'm out in the shop.

https://i.ibb.co/HYRCztK/437-141.jpg

[ZLP955]

That looks like T41, stamped week 41. A while back I tried to determine (http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=12764) all the stamping plants by their designation letter, but not much info out there. Every sheetmetal stamp I've found so far on my Camaro has been 'T' or 'H'.

[NorCam]

Found an old fisher body plant video that DW Cook had posted on CRG several years ago. From the 19:00 minute mark, it shows the floor structure as its welded to the body panels of a 70 Chevelle tub. It then shows it going through the painting process. I thought it surprising that one of the guys painting the side panel (21:40) of one particular Chevelle wasn't wearing a respirator, even back then? I'm sure it was just a spot repair but still. Nowadays that would be scrutinized by every safety officer on the planet. It does show bodies going through the primer stage, and paint stage on hooks, but nothing to show them elevated on the front. Wonder how those drip lines were directional unless it was the gun pressure that blew it out like it is on this car of mine. Neat stuff to look back at.

l-7ZmsBXBOk?t=1133

[x33rs]

That looks like T41, stamped week 41. A while back I tried to determine (http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=12764) all the stamping plants by their designation letter, but not much info out there. Every sheetmetal stamp I've found so far on my Camaro has been 'T' or 'H'.

My grandfather retired from Fisher Body in Hamilton Ohio, not far from the Norwood plant. His job was doors. They stamped their stuff with "H" from what I remember and I always wondered if that coincided with the fact that the plant was in Hamilton. For what it's worth everything on my 69Z is stamped with "H", and it's a Norwood car.

[cook_dw]

http://www.camaros.org/numbers.shtml#sheet

[X66 714]

Can anyone tell me how these L/R rear axle stop brackets are supposed to be finished? I pulled both of these off and they had a bunch of spray paint on both sides so I dumped them into some cleaner degreaser and it softened the paint which then wiped right off and I think it may have taken these a step too far.

I'm assuming they were originally black from the factory and I'll be painting these again. Just want to make sure they weren't bare from the factory? I mean I like how they were cleaning up but doubt they were left unfinished from the General.

https://i.ibb.co/wpCWr5Z/IMG-8908.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/Hh3SXx7/IMG-8909.jpg
Those brackets appear to be dip painted & then the rubber installed. I looked at mine this morning. They were never off the car till a few months back....Joe

[m22mike]

Agree, lacquer dipped by the vender that supplied them. Even large stuff like radiator supports were dipped.

Mike