Interview with Mary Barra

[70 copo]

It's not just vroom-vroom. It is the obvious corporate pandering that is afoot here.

Raising the price of the Camaro $4000.000 this year all so you can discount the Bolt... .

The pressure being exerted from every angle from those who would like to cattle herd buyers to EV's is on display, as much as the fact that gM tried to do too much too quickly and people have started to develop pattern recognition on the go that allows them to recognize the obvious.

So we have the latest:

Insulting the tradition and the name of the Corvette, so you can slap the brand onto an EV in the hopes you can get people to "TRY" something that do not want to buy.

I predict that the harder gM pushes the more difficult this will become.

Giving people what they want is one of those simple laws of nature... kind of like the fact that sane people do not attempt to swim upstream against the current of the water... But perhaps there is some hope: gM has moved the goal posts to go "all electric" now to 2035.

The question is will gM even make it to 2025 at this rate?

[markinnaples]

And just to say, I'm not against EV's in general. I think the torque and instant speed is pretty awesome, and if going to EV's actually lessens polluting the earth, even better and who isn't all for that? But I'll add that I think Climate Change is a lie and that the science is very far from settled as it's often stated. And if they think by some countries going away from fossil fuels will fight CC while China and other countries build new coal plants every month, they're dumb. Not to mention, can you imagine the electrical grid with everyone plugging in their EV's every night? Rolling brownouts will probably be the least that will happen.

[70 copo]

I want to come out and say that I not against EV's either. What I am against is being pushed, shamed, or forced to buy one.

WHY DO I FEEL THIS WAY?

Are they "green good for the environment? The amount of "carbon" required to make an EV is way way higher than that of ICE. Further when an ICE reaches end of life it can be recycled in multiple ways. Recycling ICE gave us the HOT ROD culture that exists yet today.

Where do all these EV batteries go when they reach the end of service life?

Who knows, likely, (along with millions of toxic solar panels) to a landfill of course!

Is that good for the environment?

In order to be carbon neutral wind, tidal, solar, needs to be ready and able to do the job. It is not. The decision makers know it is not and that's why we are hearing about potential rolling black outs and shutting off your AC in your home in the middle of summer.

Finally EV's are powered by coal and natural gas. This is simply a fact and to attempt to argue otherwise will make such a person look silly.

And this is EXACTLY why the WEF is now advocating for the elimination of cars - both ICE and EV.



here: https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=172583

[70 copo]

Finally. The chicken is home to roost.

Mary said "20 EV's on the market by 2023".

Well it is now 2023 model year and there are THREE available to buy now.

The Bolt
The Hummer
The Lyric.

Let the countdown begin. We have 11 months left in model year 2023 GM needs to bring 17 more to market this model year. Anybody want to bet on gM making it happen?

[olredalert]

----My wish would be that GM fails the 29 EV dateline!....Bill S

[BCreekDave]

Finally. The chicken is home to roost.

Mary said "20 EV's on the market by 2023".

Well it is now 2023 model year and there are THREE available to buy now.

The Bolt
The Hummer
The Lyric.

Let the countdown begin. We have 11 months left in model year 2023 GM needs to bring 17 more to market this model year. Anybody want to bet on gM making it happen?

If they have any interest in making the deadline they will just through trim packages on these three and call those the 20. Mission accomplished by sleight of hand.

[markinnaples]

Maybe we need another option besides just gas-powered ICE and EV's?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/here-s-why-major-car-manufacturers-believe-hydrogen-cars-are-the-future/ar-AA11BLXm?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=89b0031ade064785b577e35202d6f74e

[Lee Stewart]

Hydrogen is the future. It's just more expensive (today) to implement than EV. All we have to do is substitute Hydrogen for Gasoline in our infrastructure. We can still use most of the foundation of our existing engines. Only the intake has to be changed to accept Hydrogen.

Yes Hydrogen will put a strain on our existing electric infrastructure. But not as much as EV does.

Back in the 1960s many car companies in Europe offered Propane as a fuel alternative to Gasoline. All that was required was a change to the carb.

Propane was used by American OEMs to test their engines. I know for a fact Chrysler used it on all 426 Hemi installations.

[70 copo]

Mary, Mark, and Joe.

The star of the show is the Z06 which unfortunately is on production constraint for the REST of the model year.

WXxwRgGjDW0

[markinnaples]

So they introduced the new Mustang yesterday, and it's still an ICE for now. Ford also stated that they will continue to build the Mustang with an ICE, while GM continues to commit to a full EV platform. I think that's going to end up being to GM's peril.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/14/business/new-ford-mustang/index.html

[TMagda]

You guys know way more than I do but is this not true? Additionally, I know the truck is cool, a buddy has one, but, loaded up the range is reduced by something like 70%. All for tech, but when it is ready.

[70 copo]

I attended the Inaugural Detroit Concours d’Elegance this past weekend and attended the toney "Motor City Party" (Gala) the night before.

Initially we were treated to a one on one interview with Ed Wellburn and then later a panel discussion where senior automobile company officials from the Detroit three told us all how great EV's were. The response from the roughly 200 assembled guests in attendance was polite but tepid at best.
No questions were permitted from guests during the panel.

There were two cars on display at the party, the first the Cadiliac Cyclone (on the design turntable in the panel discussion room) which was very well received - and later at dinner (in a separate room) the brand new Cadillac LYRIQ.

Here is where it got interesting because the LYRIQ is a literal behemoth in person. I am talking like Hummer H2 proportions - and I observed correctly that while in the "strolling dinner" room we were participants in a grand marketing experiment (the psychological kind) - all put on by GM of course.

So we were the mice and the LYRIQ was the cheese.

Well,- we were all just assured how "great EV's were" minutes before, however interest in looking at the LYRIQ was just as restrained and tepid as the applause minutes earlier.

Very few people I observed showed any interest in the LYRIQ at all, and finally at the end of the evening one tipsy lady decided to actually sit in it and predictably two photographers appeared out of the corners of the room to take her picture (multiple times and literally from all angles) when she was sitting in it -treating her like she was a movie star.

The $300 dollar per ticket Motor City guests there were all older and certainly well qualified to buy the LYRIQ and therefore presumably this event would be sure to represent the EXACT buyer segment for the LYRIQ- yet these people showed little to no interest in it at all which I found fascinating to observe.

The next day at the Concours d’Elegance field the gM EV display contained the Hummer EV, the LYRIQ again and the the soon to be released Traverse, and the Blazer EV's.

Just like the LYRIQ these vehicles are simply HUGE and the styling looks forced as the dimensional stretch required to fit the look of the vehicle on to the center battery bay distorts the vehicle proportions to an extent to where the styling takes on a cartoonish appearance. Very few people at all at the gM EV display. By contrast the ICE Z06 and legacy GM vehicle display over on the museum side was MOBBED all day.

There is a lesson here: MARY are you listening??

REVERSE COURSE NOW BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE and maintain your ICE production capability and offerings because you are going to have to - in order to stay in business.

[Lee Stewart]

https://i.postimg.cc/qvps7ZM0/mail.png (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/t4DhntY6/mail-1.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

https://i.postimg.cc/cJHfRgnb/mail-3.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[markinnaples]

If you can imagine the amount of money that will be spent to make a wholesale change from ICE vehicles to EVs, especially in a relatively short timeframe, then think that there are wealthy investors who will make absolutely obscene amounts of money on the entire situation. Those are the people for which this push for EVs equation makes a lot of $en$e.

[Lee Stewart]

https://i.postimg.cc/qvK6TP3j/mail.jpg (https://postimages.cc/)

[70 copo]

An excellent non partisan video summary of where gM finds itself in 2023. Based upon the interview Mary gave I am no longer sure where the date definite "IS" pertaining to gM going "all electric".

ZUWhrABOSx8

[70 copo]

The normal approach is to dump the brand segments that are not selling well straight to the rental companies.

Still true today: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a41300293/hertz-rental-fleet-gm-electric-vehicles/

[markinnaples]

What a disaster GM is in now, and is going to continue to be in. What a shame.

[PeteLeathersac]

'

Outright sickening what's become of the once strong/proud GM empire, Durant/Kettering/McLaughlin/Cole/Knudsen etc certainly can't be resting in peace w/ the blind leadership of recent years also sadder yet is what's to come.:crazy:
Below pic same as posted a few days back in the 'Can't make this stuff up' thread, fits here too...
:beers:
~ Pete

.

[carnut4life]

Alfred Sloan is surely rolling in his grave. The whole EV scenario, for Chevrolet at least, reminds me of the copper cooled engine fiasco that could have brought Chevrolet to its knee's back in 1923, fortunately they pulled out at the last minute much to Charles Kettering's chagrin. History has proven air cooled engines can work, but not in big cars most Americans enjoy driving.

Tesla and others have proven electric cars have their place too, it will be interesting to see where the market, infrastructure and technology takes us in the next 10-20 years. As a entry level(i.e. cheap) manufacturer I don't see why Chevrolet feels it must compete with Tesla, but I'm no Alfred Sloan, unfortunately for GM I don't think Mary Barra is either.

[70 copo]

gM plans to take the gentle approach with us non conformist types... Ford not so much.

The plan moving forward is that gM dealers that sell Cadillac and Buick will receive buy out offers for dealers that are unwilling or unable to spend the money required to fully service electric vehicles.

Dealers that agree to take the buyouts will only be allowed to sell Chevrolets which positions Chevy as the gM internal combustion brand moving forward.

FORD

Ford has made similar conditional requirements to its dealers. Ford wants to move toward 100 percent online sales as they dismiss the direct sales partners that built the company brand over the past century. The end goal for FORD is “no inventory … and 100 percent remote pickup and delivery.” Long-time dealers will be forced into repairs only.

Ford also plans to restrict parts inventories which will by design - frustrate people wanting to quickly repair existing ICE fleets. This a less than subtle NUDGE for Ford owners to simply give up - and buy an EV of course. This Ford experiment will be interesting to watch because it will require Ford to be successful with BOTH its lobbying efforts to overturn state laws that require vehicle sales to be through dealers - and the avalanche of litigation that is sure to follow.

Ford news link here: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/09/ford-tells-dealers-electric-vehicles-must-have-transparent-set-prices/

[70 copo]

Now for those of you who have put all the pieces together the death of the CAMARO is 100 percent caused by gM and declining sales are likewise 100% caused by gM as they intentionally sabotaged the brand beginning in 2019 with the torridly bad refresh of the body. Since then:

Zero advertising for Camaro

Seemingly continious and intentional assembly bottlenecking at Grand River Assembly Plant resulting in pissed off customers that ordered Camaros.

Price increases-an obvious attempt to price buyers out of the car... .



You see if the Cadillac is going to be exclusively electric and the Camaro is built on the Cadillac platform - then Camaro either becomes EV or goes away.

This was and is an internal battle within gM of course-- with the some holding out hope that the Camaro would be built at Boling Green on the new C-8 platform to save it and that's why these renders keep popping up on the internet.

[Lee Stewart]

WASHINGTON (AP) — Attention, potential car buyers: New electric vehicle charging stations are on their way to highway locations near you.

All 50 states received final approval Tuesday to begin construction on a first nationwide network of EV charging stations that places one roughly every 50 miles (80 kilometers) along interstate highways, part of the Biden administration’s plan to spur widespread adoption of zero-emission cars.

The Transportation Department said it had OK’d EV charger plans from a last set of 17 states, triggering the release of $1.5 billion in federal funds to all jurisdictions nationwide — or $5 billion over five years — to install or upgrade chargers along 75,000 miles (120,000 kilometers) of highway from coast to coast, with a goal of 500,000 EV chargers nationwide. Plans for the other 33 states and the District of Columbia were approved earlier this month.

By year’s end, drivers could start seeing expansions and upgrades to existing highway EV stations in states such as California, Colorado, Florida and Pennsylvania that now feature at least four fast-charger ports, enabling EVs to fully recharge in about an hour.

Construction of new EV charging locations could begin by next spring.

https://www.kob.com/ap-new-mexico/states-get-final-ok-to-build-highway-ev-charging-network/

[70 copo]

Oh boy... an unknown wait time to make it to an open charging spot- then an HOUR to charge?

Hard Pass.

[BCreekDave]

Help me to understand this a bit. How will the kwh rate be set for these stations? Will it be a flat rate nationwide rate or locally set? Since the taxpayer is footing the bill for the install (and presumed upkeep), the only cost will be the kwh? Also, it seems that this is putting the government in direct competition with private enterprise who might want to install charging stations? It would be like the government building gas stations next to Sunoco's etc. I bet that would go over well. Maybe this has been discussed and thought through.

[Lynn]

"Maybe this has been discussed and thought through."

Not likely.

[Lee Stewart]

From the US Dept. Of Transportation

Historic Step: All Fifty States Plus D.C. and Puerto Rico Greenlit to Move EV Charging Networks Forward, Covering 75,000 Miles of Highway

https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/historic-step-all-fifty-states-plus-dc-and-puerto-rico-greenlit-move-ev-charging

[Lee Stewart]

Help me to understand this a bit. How will the kwh rate be set for these stations? Will it be a flat rate nationwide rate or locally set? Since the taxpayer is footing the bill for the install (and presumed upkeep), the only cost will be the kwh? Also, it seems that this is putting the government in direct competition with private enterprise who might want to install charging stations? It would be like the government building gas stations next to Sunoco's etc. I bet that would go over well. Maybe this has been discussed and thought through.

How do they set the price of a gallon of gas on the US Interstates. They are definitely not the same for each state.

Sorry - no taxpayer money involved - Monolopy Money - just spend what you don't have knowing it will never be held accountable for.

The Govt. is paying for it but it is not running the EV charging stations. It will be up to the individaul states to do that.

[Big Block Bill]

And everyone charging their vehicles pays how much, and by what means for this service?
I assume most will pay by credit card? Everything about EV's are such a Joke when you look at the WHOLE process.

Bill

[BCreekDave]

The Govt. is paying for it but it is not running the EV charging stations. It will be up to the individual states to do that. Somehow this doesn't make me feel any better :frown:

[Lee Stewart]

And everyone charging their vehicles pays how much, and by what means for this service?
I assume most will pay by credit card? Everything about EV's are such a Joke when you look at the WHOLE process.

Bill

How do people pay for gas? Credit/Debit cards. That wasn't hard to figure out was it?

Again, the price will not be the same in each state just like the price of gas is diffrerent in each state.

The internet is a wonderful tool Bill. Try using it for answers to your questions:

Table of Average Electricity Rates by State

https://i.postimg.cc/fRtHD0JN/screenshot-10894.png (https://postimg.cc/dhFR932H)

https://www.electricchoice.com/electricity-prices-by-state/

[Big Block Bill]

How do people pay for gas? Credit/Debit cards. That wasn't hard to figure out was it?

Again, the price will not be the same in each state just like the price of gas is diffrerent in each state.

The internet is a wonderful tool Bill. Try using it for answers to your questions:

Table of Average Electricity Rates by State

https://i.postimg.cc/fRtHD0JN/screenshot-10894.png (https://postimg.cc/dhFR932H)

https://www.electricchoice.com/electricity-prices-by-state/

Lee,

Did I strike a nerve or something? Your reply was a little harsh don't you think? Most people on this site know I have owned a Marathon Truck Stop and Repair facility for the last 37 years, and worked there a total of 49 years as an employee or employer so I obviously know how people pay for Fuel. Sorry if I didn't explain myself, but what I was asking if the whole process was going to be paid like a toll system is, as to where Illinois' I-Pass system is good in many states when traveling to pay for tolls and vise versa, then you would be billed directly every month by the state issuing your transponder.

Your table of State electricity prices doesn't answer my question how much per charge people will be paying, That was my question. If you would like to take this conversation off line, tell me and I'll give you my cell phone number so we can talk, I am not a bad Guy, and I really enjoy this site, so I'm NOT looking to start a War. I just don't get the Buzz about EV's being practical (right now anyway). And by the way diffrerent is spelled different, and I know how to use the Internet.

Respectfully waiting for your reply, public or private.
Bill Pankiw

[Lee Stewart]

Lee,

Did I strike a nerve or something? Your reply was a little harsh don't you think? Most people on this site know I have owned a Marathon Truck Stop and Repair facility for the last 37 years, and worked there a total of 49 years as an employee or employer so I obviously know how people pay for Fuel. Sorry if I didn't explain myself, but what I was asking if the whole process was going to be paid like a toll system is, as to where Illinois' I-Pass system is good in many states when traveling to pay for tolls and vise versa, then you would be billed directly every month by the state issuing your transponder.

And if I want to drive from New York to California - you can see where Trasponders really wouldn't work. It will work the same way it does today only with gas. You pull in - submit your CC/Debit Card into the charging station and charge up. Your rate is based on which state your in. Instead of gallons of gas it's KWH.

Your table of State electricity prices doesn't answer my question how much per charge people will be paying, That was my question. If you would like to take this conversation off line, tell me and I'll give you my cell phone number so we can talk, I am not a bad Guy, and I really enjoy this site, so I'm looking to start a War. I just don't get the Buzz about EV's being practical (right now anyway). And by the way diffrerent is spelled different, and I know how to use the Internet.

Respectfully waiting for your reply, public or private.
Bill Pankiw

How much will people pay? How much do they pay today to fill up with gas? One guy used 15 gallons, another 22. It will be the same for an EV Charging Station. Keep in mind that buying gas includes state and federal taxes. That will have to be added to every charge some how.

There is no reason to complicate this. Just substitute a Charging Station for a Gas Pump.

[Lee Stewart]

How Much Does it Cost to Charge an Electric Car?

https://www.kbb.com/car-advice/how-much-does-it-cost-to-charge-an-ev/

[Steve Shauger]

How do people pay for gas? Credit/Debit cards. That wasn't hard to figure out was it?

Again, the price will not be the same in each state just like the price of gas is diffrerent in each state.

The internet is a wonderful tool Bill. Try using it for answers to your questions:

Table of Average Electricity Rates by State

https://i.postimg.cc/fRtHD0JN/screenshot-10894.png (https://postimg.cc/dhFR932H)

https://www.electricchoice.com/electricity-prices-by-state/

Lee it's not that simple, and please show some respect to members questions. This industry can't even agree on a common charging plug. Nothing is set in stone at this point.

If for instance an owner supplies their own charging power by use of solar/wind how is the road tax collected. Perhaps EV cars will have instrumentation to capture charging information and transmit it to tax collecting municipalities.

I could also see where home/roadside charging stations will ultimately be required by state /federal government to report usage and collect tax based on each vehicle and ultimately each owner.

[Charley Lillard]

https://charge.cars/

[Steve Shauger]

https://charge.cars/

I figured this EV technology would integrate well into the protouring segment, although I've seen conversions on pretty original cars as well.

[JoeC]

Tony Hawk had his 64 Corvette converted and was on the Jay Leno show

[70 copo]

Current and future additional delays in the gM EV roll out likely involve the messy gM partnership with battery material supplier GLENCORE.

Details of Glencore's corrupt activities emerged literally YEARS before GM signed a multiyear deal last April to source metal for batteries that will be used in the upcoming Chevy Silverado and other EVs but gM still did the deal anyway-- however GLENCORE is still having difficulty emerging from the larger worldwide corruption scandal.

In everyday language:
"Show me your friends and I’ll show you your future because you become who you willingly do business with".


DOJ Press release:
https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/glencore-entered-guilty-pleas-foreign-bribery-and-market-manipulation-schemes

Analysis of what this means: https://compliancechief360.com/glencore-to-pay-1-2-billion-to-settle-global-corruption-case/

[Mr70]

8O6n2fsBPDg&t=193s

[70 copo]

A tentacle of the GLENMORE bribery and corruption probe caught Brian So (also known as Hyoung Nam So), then the the manager of gM’s Global Purchasing and Supply Chain organization who took $3.45 million in cash bribes from a supplier.

Mr. SO surrendered to authorities on March 24 after a federal grand jury charged him with bribery conspiracy and was terminated from employment by gM on April 1st 2022.

According to gM: “General Motors does not tolerate or condone corruption or bribery of any kind, the illegal conduct alleged is entirely inconsistent with our code of conduct and corporate policies"

Yet AFTER GLENMORE was caught red handed and plead guilty-- they (gM) did a major deal with them for the cobalt they needed for the new Ulitium battery platform... I SEE a contradiction here, a moral and ethical one at that.

gmauthority.com/blog/2022/03/former-gm-manager-arrested-for-taking-bribes-from-parts-supplier/

[copo69]

George Carlin's oxymorons, "military intelligence" "business ethics".....

[Pro Stock John]

Lee it's not that simple, and please show some respect to members questions. This industry can't even agree on a common charging plug. Nothing is set in stone at this point.

If for instance an owner supplies their own charging power by use of solar/wind how is the road tax collected. Perhaps EV cars will have instrumentation to capture charging information and transmit it to tax collecting municipalities.

I could also see where home/roadside charging stations will ultimately be required by state /federal government to report usage and collect tax based on each vehicle and ultimately each owner.

I think standardization of the charging plugs is happening but it will take a while. it's in the best interest of the OEMs to do this, it will reduce range anxiety.

[markinnaples]

And of course, here goes NY following CA's lead:

New York State Wants to Ban New Gas Cars and Trucks by 2035

The State of New York has joined Washington and California in introducing efforts that will phase out the sale of new gas and diesel-engined cars and light trucks in the coming years. New York Governor Kathy Hochul directed the State Department of Environmental Conservation to take steps that will gradually phase out the sale of new internal combustion engine vehicles by the year 2035, with a number of interim targets between now and the target year.

The governor's initiative essentially directs a state administrative agency to adopt rules through rulemaking procedures, similar to an effort first announced by California Governor Gavin Newsom two years ago. However, it was California's adoption of Advanced Clean Cars II last month that has opened the door to New York state to adopt the same goal.

According to the plan, the rules will require that 35% of light vehicle sales in the state be of zero-emission vehicles by 2026—identical to California's interim targets promulgated by CARB—moving up to 68% by 2030. By 2035, all 100% of light vehicle sales will be mandated to be ZEV.

Some critics of California's efforts in this regard argue that the plans don't actually go far enough, neglecting to add more stringent requirements to internal combustion vehicles.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/new-york-state-wants-to-ban-new-gas-cars-and-trucks-by-2035/ar-AA12sglJ

[markinnaples]

Hydrogen fueled vehicles seem to be a hit in other countries

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/battery-electric-cars-are-the-future-not-so-fast-hydrogen-powered-cars-will-give-them-a-run-for-their-money/ar-AA12ANNJ?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=a9c2a968c8e14e93ae85e44442ef79fa

[70 copo]

More BAD news:

uIXfp7pVFV4&t

[markinnaples]

A real-world test of towing with the new Electric F-150:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nS0Fdayj8Y

[70 copo]

Reports out of Naples indicate that flooded EV's are literally time bombs. and some have already caught fire.

Fresh water is not very conducive but salt water conducts electricity very well. Salt is soluble in water and divides into sodium ions which are positively charged, and chloride ions, which are negatively charged.

All sources of electricity, like batteries, have two terminals, a positive and a negative.

SO:

Batteries saturated in salt water, (even if somewhat dry), have this conducive material spreading the current, which sparks, and then catches adjacent material on fire.

Mark,

What is the view on this in storm ravaged Naples??

[70 copo]

In the news: https://nypost.com/2022/10/06/electric-vehicles-catching-fire-in-florida-after-hurricane-ian/

[olredalert]

In the news: https://nypost.com/2022/10/06/electric-vehicles-catching-fire-in-florida-after-hurricane-ian/

----Yeah,,,Whats the cure for this???....Bill S

[markinnaples]

Reports out of Naples indicate that flooded EV's are literally time bombs. and some have already caught fire.

Fresh water is not very conducive but salt water conducts electricity very well. Salt is soluble in water and divides into sodium ions which are positively charged, and chloride ions, which are negatively charged.

All sources of electricity, like batteries, have two terminals, a positive and a negative.

SO:

Batteries saturated in salt water, (even if somewhat dry), have this conducive material spreading the current, which sparks, and then catches adjacent material on fire.

Mark,

What is the view on this in storm ravaged Naples??

Well, it's kind of a strange situation in Naples now. Most of what is west of Route 41 (Tamiami Trail - named because it goes from Tampa to Miami, just FYI, and which is predominantly a 4/5 lane road that has businesses on both sides nearly the entire length that generally ranges from a 1/2 mile to a few miles from the beach in the section from Tampa to Naples, where it turns east across the Everglades to Miami) has been either destroyed or at least suffered severe flooding from Naples to Punta Gorda. And while most of those areas are devastated, the rest of Naples got away scot-free from any kind of damage or affects at all from Ian. I think there is a lot of a kind of "survivor guilt" by the sections of the community that went unscathed.

Now, regarding the EV situation, I've only seen one video of an electric car that caught fire and it looked like they were, indeed, having to take a lot more time and water to put it out. Fox News is actually having a story on this exact topic in a few minutes, so I guess it's an issue.

[Big Block Bill]

----Yeah,,,Whats the cure for this???....Bill S

Stop producing Electric Cars?

Bill

[olredalert]

Stop producing Electric Cars?

Bill

----Bingo!

[markinnaples]

Here's a local Naples story about EVs and the flood waters:

https://wsvn.com/news/local/florida/tesla-fire-in-naples-prompts-hazard-warning-about-electric-vehicles-in-wake-of-ian/

[Lee Stewart]

$1.6 million in electric cars burn after Hurricane Sandy

Nov. 1, 2012

Sixteen Fisker Karma electric vehicles caught fire and burned to the ground after being submerged by saltwater from Hurricane Sandy's storm surge.

The $100,000 cars were parked in Port Newark, N.J., prior to the storm's arrival, according to Jalopnik. The vehicles were submerged when Hurricane Sandy's storm surge beached the port, flooding the luxury electric vehicles and other cars parked in the port.

https://www.chron.com/cars/article/1-6-million-in-electric-cars-burn-after-4000001.php

Almost 10 years ago. This is nothing new and it definitely hasn't stopped the promotion and production of EVs. EVs have become a political issue. To think any less is to ignore what is happening all over the world - GO GREEN.

[70 copo]

More Hummer EV news:

https://www.thedrive.com/news/gmc-hummer-ev-taillights-cost-an-eye-watering-6100-to-replace-plus-labor

[olredalert]

More Hummer EV news:

https://www.thedrive.com/news/gmc-hummer-ev-taillights-cost-an-eye-watering-6100-to-replace-plus-labor

----Humbug!!!.....Bill S

[70 copo]

More BAD news:

uIXfp7pVFV4&t


Looks like gM found the problem... "At present, gM is aware of three confirmed reports of water entering improperly sealed battery packs in the GMC Hummer EV. In two of these cases, the vehicles affected would not start, while in the third case, the vehicle lost propulsion while driving. The loss of propulsion while driving may increase the risk of a crash"

RECALL DETAILS HERE:

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2022/10/2022-gmc-hummer-ev-recalled-for-improper-urethane-battery-pack-sealing/

[70 copo]

Mary said that following the Cobalt ignition switch cover up that She would work to change the corporate culture...Like any big organization that's easier said than done.

For those of you with 5.3's that burn oil..... you likely were aware of this:

https://www.gmenginelitigation.com/

A $102.6 MILLION dollar verdict was returned after the Plaintiff's produced emails that showed that gM was aware of the problem said it was fixed, and conspired to cover the defect up internally.

In 2010, gM recommended to its dealers that they clean the pistons of the vehicles in question. That solution was ineffective and company engineers and other employees recommended that the piston ring design be changed. gM made other ineffective engine design changes in 2011, but the oil consumption issues persisted until gM finally discontinued production of the engine following the 2014 model year.

The verdict was returned after in only one day's deliberation and as expected is now under appeal by gM

The jury found that gM violated the breach of implied warranty of merchantability to California plaintiffs, the breach of implied warranty of merchantability to North Carolina vehicle owners, and breached the provisions of the Idaho Consumer Protection Act

38,000 members of the class--each person will only get $2,700 to cover repairs.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2022/10/gm-hit-with-102m-verdict-in-california-excessive-engine-oil-consumption-trial/

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20221004006189/en/General-Motors-Hit-With-102.6-Million-Jury-Verdict-in-Class-Action-Over-Defective-Engines

The real damage here is to gM's reputation. It is astonishing that gM let this issue even go to trial in the first place.

[Tenney]

Derelict ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiWAajyCtJY

[70 copo]

More bad news: gM has announced it will suspend advertising on Twitter.

gM appears to be solidly entering the social/political arena (on one side) with this move.

No links no stories no partisan views in this post.

I do have an informed opinion here: There is no upside here only downside for gM in taking this action. I thought gM was in the business of selling cars?

[Mr70]

Not political,but most likely due to Elon Musk taking over ownership of Twitter,as GM is taking on Tesla in terms of market share.GM believes they can catch Tesla in the U.S. EV market by mid-decade,by offering more models at more price points than the current leader.

[70 copo]

Not political,but most likely due to Elon Musk taking over ownership of Twitter,as GM is taking on Tesla in terms of market share.GM believes they can catch Tesla in the U.S. EV market by mid-decade,by offering more models at more price points than the current leader.

Agreed. But the current atmosphere is so sour that GM's actions here are sure be used to portray GM as "anti free speech" as the twitter take over is being used to reverse the censorship actions taken there over the past two years or so.

Attacking Musk's other business interests is NOT the same as attacking Tesla.

gM needs to focus on selling cars to all people and avoid political issues at all cost or we risk not having gM around... just saying.:beers:

[70 copo]

THE HITS just keep on coming.....

"GM has told a federal judge that it is unable to comply with a recently updated right-to-repair law in Massachusetts as the law poses a safety and cybersecurity risk, sets an impossible timeline for compliance, and conflicts with a number of federal laws".


For those who may have missed it, Massachusetts voters voiced overwhelming approval in November of 2020 in support of a ballot measure updating the state's so-called right to repair law.

The law expands access to data related to vehicle maintenance and repair, and would require automakers give owners and independent repair shops access to real-time mechanical data and telematics

Today's gM GM has done everything possible to limit or eliminate owners access to the “black box” that stores telemetry data on vehicles people own.

Interestingly enough however, telemetry data seems to be quickly provided to law enforcement -- but owners seem to have no control over it.... .


Link: https://gmauthority.com/blog/2022/10/gm-cant-comply-with-massachusetts-right-to-repair-law/

[AnthonyS]

As a tangent, I saw this at the last swap meet...

[Tenney]

...

[Tenney]

Derelict ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMOBECkR5lk

[Lee Stewart]

https://i.postimg.cc/HLBHWxjM/0.jpg (https://postimg.cc/wtyn09Xx)

Here’s How BYD’s Blade Battery Is Superior To Lithium-Ion Packs In Most EVs

One of the significant concerns in EVs is battery safety, given that a violent crash can lead to the combustion and explosion of lithium-ion batteries. From Tesla to Hyundai, most EV makers have experienced battery fires from overheating and sometimes, for idiopathic reasons as well. It’s simple, to make EVs more feasible, the batteries have to be safer.

One of the advantages that Blade batteries offer in this context is the use of lithium iron phosphate (LFP) for the cathode material. This promises better safety than conventional lithium-ion batteries, given that LFP has more stable chemistry, even at temperatures as high as 930 °F (500 °C).

BYD’s Blade battery also passed the industry’s “Everest” test, which includes a nail puncture to prove that the battery would not ignite in case of an internal short circuit. While other batteries’ surface temperatures rose, enough to explode or char an egg dropped on them to test the same, the BYD battery remained at a cool 30-60 °C (85-140 °F), leaving the egg mostly unchanged and undamaged. This implies that BYD batteries stay cool under pressure and heat.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/here-s-how-byd-s-blade-battery-is-superior-to-lithium-ion-packs-in-most-evs/ar-AA13CJVA?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=bc5dcbf039384476bc251741169dfa3d#image=1

[70 copo]

"General Motors will miss its previously announced EV production targets by at least six months, CEO Mary Barra said during a conference call with investors".


https://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2022/10/gm-will-miss-its-ev-production-target-ceo-barra-tells-investors/

[70 copo]

Finally. The chicken is home to roost.

Mary said "20 EV's on the market by 2023".

Well it is now 2023 model year and there are THREE available to buy now.

The Bolt
The Hummer
The Lyric.

Let the countdown begin. We have 11 months left in model year 2023 GM needs to bring 17 more to market this model year. Anybody want to bet on gM making it happen?

The goal posts have been officially moved.

gM has announced revised plans to introduce 30 all-electric models by 2025.

Let the watch party begin!:youguysrock:

[olredalert]

----Won't all the electric car fires just help global warming? Just asking for a friend!....Bill S

[70 copo]

The good news is that despite all of the negative publicity surrounding the BOLT and the battery fires, the car has rebounded and has become a sales leader because it is comparably cheap to buy.

GM just sold 14,000 of these EV's in the third quarter of 2022.

BUT the storm awaits gM as the BOLT Class Action Suit is rolling towards a trial date.

Here: https://www.classaction.org/media/kennedy-v-general-motors-company.pdf

[Tommy]

https://www.wbrc.com/2022/11/07/electric-buses-catch-fire-anniston/

Tommy

[70 copo]

It is being reported that Mary will tell the investors TODAY that GM will not make a profit on any EV sales until 2025 at the earliest.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-14/general-motors-gm-targets-making-profit-on-ultium-electric-cars-in-2025

[markinnaples]

One has to wonder if GM is going to survive this current economic environment and managerial decisioning. Sad.

[70 copo]

The reviewer of the HUMMER EV LOVED IT!

So that's the good news. The bad news it that it took 2 hours and 32 minutes to charge the Hummer to full charge and this was at a charging station with a fast charger. AC charging at home could be cheaper, but it would take longer.

The Hummer has a range of 329 miles. In some instances with a charger station membership it could wind up costing less than $100 to charge.

The take away is that from a practical prospective the cost alone to charge the battery at a fast charger (2 hours and 32 minutes) could still wind up costing nearly as much as a tank of gas as currently priced, all due to the design of the Hummer's massive battery pack.


https://www.thedrive.com/news/charging-a-gmc-hummer-ev-to-100-can-cost-you-over-100

[scuncio]

Rates are significantly cheaper if you’re a member of the charging network, which anyone driving an EV ought to be anyway.

[mssl72]

I saw a Hummer EV in Burbank the other night. Looked cool.