Interview with Mary Barra

[70 copo]

Stewart Varney is a national treasure in this interview.

One thing that Mary has going here: She is absolutely betting the future of GM and if you take her at her word all the coins are on the table. GM is going to double down on its plan to remove the product from the market that people want to buy (gas engines) and move to replace the technology with an "all electric future" starting in 2023.

SO GM will continue to price the corporation out of the gas internal combustion market as it transitions to Electric. This has been going on for years in fact just try getting the LS 6.2 in a truck these days and look at the mandatory options to get it.

On the bright side Chrysler will very likely still be there to sell you a Hemi just about anyway you want it.


https://video.foxbusiness.com/v/6113357558001/#sp=show-clips

[MosportGreen66]

Gas cars are stone age... this is old news.

FWIW... I was a judge at a well known concourse event in LI and our special guest in 2018 was a respected and senior EVP from Ford special development in particular electric vehicles. He said Ford (and all other majors) are investing heavily in electric and clean diesel. He said Tesla is a pioneer which the auto industry not only respects but also emulates. Any major that is starting on on electric cars and or clean diesel (at the time fall 2018) was 4-5 years behind in R&D that could sink the brand.

I don't own electric at the moment because the technology is too new for me to invest in but in the future (my life time) I expect it to be the only technology for sale. My boss & CEO placed an advanced order for two Telsa trucks. They will be charged by the solar panels on the roof of our distribution centers. Now that is a neat model...

Dan

[70 copo]

Dan,

You are right It is old news. Electric preceded internal combustion engines and were rejected by the consumer then and multiple times since.

The math here today is pretty simple: Who in the world is going to pay for the Trillions in new and upgraded transmission infrastructure needed for the adoption of large scale electric vehicle adoption for the masses?

A home charging system for a Tesla currently requires 75 amp service - just for the car. The average small house is equipped with 100 amp service in total.

So I think conventional as we know them now electric style cars are still dead on re-arrival with the exception of perhaps a city commuter (as a short trip car) where the existing hi voltage infrastructure is already in place for charging stations. The Chevy Volt/Bolt fits in here perfectly with a 32 amp charging station the car takes about 8 hours to charge.

Perhaps GM has invented the technology to simply grab electricity out of thin air thus eliminating charging down time??

Or someone is betting on the adoption of the green new deal in the next decade... that sounds more like the calculation in play here.

We will see, but betting the company on it-well you had better be right.

[70 copo]

FWIW. According to the Competitive Enterprise institute:

The estimated cost today for a low carbon electricity grid here in the USA is $5.4 Trillion Dollars.

That is a $39,000 hit to each household not factoring in the number of households that will technically fall below the threshold to participate.

[70 copo]

My post here got some interesting feedback from a GM insider and his opinions as to what is really afoot here is interesting to say the least.

Plans for Electric were accelerated in 2017. This caused a war to break out between the legacy part of GM and the electric contingent. There were many retirements and good people forced out of legacy programs when Electric won. It was a purge a total purge. Legacy lost the war.

On midsize rear drive...any kind of evolution of Alpha is incompatible with current "Electric Vision" that leaves GM with only 4 vehicle platforms by 2025.

These platforms are exclusively electric compatible with one small car platform, one midsize car platform one for an SUV, and one for a truck.

Gen 7 Camaro was under development in 2017-2018 as an update of the existing Alpha platform.

Camaro is not sales that is a smoke screen. The car simply cannot return on Alpha for 2023. The earliest Camaro can return is 2025 when its electric compatible platform is ready and as a result Camaro is going on Hiatus again then".

[jdv69z]

So who is picking up the tab for all the new power plants? Powered by what? A lot more to this equation than just electric cars.

[70 copo]

The opinion of the insider was that there was a degree of alignment within GM starting with the political perception that POTUS would be removed and the retaking of the house in 2018. Green new deal was proposed right out of the gate in early 2019.

I asked the same question who is paying? His reply was “well who do you think? The taxpayers of course”.

[cook_dw]

I was typing my comments before I seen your post.



So it sounds like that the new platforms will have to be able to offer an electric version but still offer a gas powered option at least for the short term of these new architectures..?.

I am sure there are tax breaks set in place for these electric technologies and I can see LG sharing in the cost of said expenses along with GM. Which means it'll trickle down to the consumer at some point. "The end is coming."

[markinnaples]

I find it interesting that they're planning on all electric by the mid 20's, especially considering the current minor amount of electric charging stations throughout the country. How are they going to address this? Gas stations are EVERYWHERE, but charging stations are few and far between. Are they counting on the free market to fill this gap? Are they hoping that by going full electric, they will force the market to change?

Honestly, I was hoping more for a slow changeover to electric if it had to occur, as this just seems very strong-arm. Hopefully GM is the exception versus the rule and other manufacturers won't all abandon the ICE.

I will say, a few years ago I thought that the owners of McDonalds restaurants along the interstates across the country should install electric vehicle chargers in a couple spots in their parking lots. They could then charge a fee for charging as well as expect that people would stop and eat there while charging. Probably still not a bad idea.

[HawkX66]

They can't even get, or won't work on getting, internet or cell signals out into major parts of the country. I find it hard to believe that they're going to make internal combustion obsolete in my life time. A good sum of people won't be able to charge them etc.

[70 copo]

Hawk,

I get it. I will rage against the dying of the light to my last breath.

[mssl72]

I know it was talked about in the past, but with all the electric cars in our future and dwindling gas cars, the gas tax pool will be come smaller and smaller. Tax money to fix roads was normally paid at the pump. With less gas cars the taxes to will have to come from electric owners. Maybe part of the registration process.

[cook_dw]

Maybe not a complete wipeout of the gas engine but I can see it flip flopped where it is today with gas vs elec on the road. Especially in major cities.

[Vern B]

When GM pays too much to buy Tesla out, they’ll have a built in network of charging stations. I believe they have 2000, or more, charging stations and are adding new ones every day. Stations range from 10 to 50 or more charge points at each station.

I still fail to see how it’s going to work in the cities and neighbors of America. Where is the power coming from with no more fossil fuel, or nuclear power plants, let alone the infrastructure to electrify every neighborhood and home.

Hope GM knows what they’re doing, I’d hate to see them go down the tubes over this.

My company had over 250 trucks on the road every day, pickups to heavy duty service trucks. When you have guys on the road that are billed out at $150 an hour, they can’t be waiting at a charge station for their batteries to charge.

[AnthonyS]

Hi Gang, very interesting topic for me, for two reasons; obviously, The Car Reason and also that my day job is (partly) permitting EVCS (Electric Vehicle Charging Stations) - I work the local jurisdictions for our clients to get the facilities permitted and have done so for a few years now, about 25 sites for Tesla and more recently, another 25 for Electrify America. Previously, I permitted WTFs (cell sites) and did so for about twenty years.

Secondly, we also bought a new Chevy Bolt last June - and to echo what was previously said here, it's a great commuter car for Mrs. Anthony, as she works about six miles from home and it's been great for that - and it plugs in to our household 110 outlet, no mods necessary at all. Of course, it's a terribly slow charge at home, but in a pinch you can pay ChargePoint while you sit in a Walmart parking lot or somewhere else - in fact, she has two third party chargers at her work parking lot, but she likes to let others use those that have more of a need. I've only ran into range anxiety with it once, using it all day here in SoCal...

In fact, it was only a few days old during The LA Roadster Show last year, and we had our own impromptu "50 years of Chevrolet" display with it and The Camaro... now, that was funny!

Cheers everyone, Anthony

[70 copo]

Perhaps the last time we had this much change proposed was between 1970 and 1975.

The difference then was that the Government tipped the scales with regulation causing the change and industry opposed it.

Today we have the social force behind the global Climate movement and the Paris Accord vs the US Government where the federal Government has withdrawn from the deal but several states along with several large corporations (who do business globally) are apparently still voluntarily going to comply with it.

On the bright side the price/value of a well maintained used Gas engine vehicle could be set to increase in value.:beers:

[cook_dw]

Might increase in the short term but I see only a select few of the gas fed cars holding value. Most will fall. To what degree? Not sure anyone knows. Let’s face it the future generations are growing smaller and smaller that have the same interests and passions for this hobby.

[cook_dw]

I hope I am dead and gone before a company offers an “electric swap for your musclecar..”

[markinnaples]

I would think that for a better transition, hybrid vehicles would have been a far better approach until battery tech grows enough to allow for more range. Here in SWFL, there are only a few charging stations, so not sure how that would work for a full time EV.

[jdv69z]

I still fail to see how it’s going to work in the cities and neighbors of America. Where is the power coming from with no more fossil fuel, or nuclear power plants,

It's one or the other. All energy is the result of a nuclear reaction, either the sun's, or a human initiated reaction here. Solar, wind, fossil, hydro, gas, are all directly of indirectly a result of the sun's continuous nuclear reaction.

[L_e_e]

I hope I am dead and gone before a company offers an “electric swap for your musclecar..”


Too late.....
https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/articles/2019/10/21/electric-crate-motor-puts-electric-tech-in-your-garage

[Crush]

Is that your 60?

[Crush]

Whoops read the article

[cook_dw]

https://media3.giphy.com/media/G34LktIsYONBm/source.gif

[70 copo]

From an article in late 2017...now this is making more sense.

“China is their (GM’s) biggest market,” said Michelle Krebs, analyst at Autotrader, told the Los Angeles Times. “If China decides to go electric, they have to do it.”

https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/general-motors-all-electric-fuel-cell-vehicles-china-ev

[BCreekDave]

China will mandate to the masses that electric vehicles will be the only way and they will build the infrastructure to make it happen. We are doing work for Tesla in China on the Model Y and the numbers they are throwing out there are impressive...20k per week. USA is soon to be a secondary market for automakers.

[bwag]

A friend dropped off the book The Great Race by Levi Tillemann over the weekend . It explains the Quest for the car of the future , its history and future plans for development. Its a real eye opener , whether we want it or not. WAG

[Lee Stewart]

GM Has 12 EVs Coming: Here's What They Are (Probably)

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/gm-has-12-evs-coming-heres-what-they-are-probably/ar-BB10aJ74?li=BBnb4R5&ocid=spartandhp

[scuncio]

USA has been second to China in new vehicles sold for quite a few years - I want to say the ranks tipped in 2012.

China will mandate to the masses that electric vehicles will be the only way and they will build the infrastructure to make it happen. We are doing work for Tesla in China on the Model Y and the numbers they are throwing out there are impressive...20k per week. USA is soon to be a secondary market for automakers.

[70 copo]

USA has been second to China in new vehicles sold for quite a few years - I want to say the ranks tipped in 2012.

That's very true.

The difference is that GM made these moves expecting China overtake the rest of the world in economic terms and to do so quickly.

GM gambled on the Status Quo in place 5 years ago.

Now China is now dropping faster than a rock. The cause is the recent rise of populism here in the US -ending with the resulting trade war last year which the US just won and handily.

Finally now the other shoe drops with the COVID-19 contagion disaster- the impacts to China may linger for years or even decades.

This is a fact. No one I know is buying an EV. No one I know is planning to buy one.

As it stands now the US will maintain its status as the largest net supplier of oil, and this should not be a news flash but the world economy is pegged to the value of a barrel of oil.

The way things are shaping up here politically I do not see a path forward for the kind of public or private infrastructure landslide needed to make EV's mainstream here in North America anytime soon.

Companies that survive have to be nimble and ready to change on a dime. GM still has a chance to compromise and keep some of its legacy platforms in production.

What I cannot reconcile and what the GM insider agrees on 100% BTW-- is how in the world the US Taxpayer bails out GM in 2011 and saves the company from being sold off only to have the company reward North America with a future product selection that seems goal set to implement a total product shift that ignores the needs and desires of the very customer base that just punched the ticket to keep GM alive.

China did not bail out GM. We did. I hope GM has something really good to announce because It may need The North American market to stay in business.

[markinnaples]

That's very true.

The difference is that GM made these moves expecting China overtake the rest of the world in economic terms and to do so quickly.

GM gambled on the Status Quo in place 5 years ago.

Now China is now dropping faster than a rock. The cause is the recent rise of populism here in the US -ending with the resulting trade war last year which the US just won and handily.

Finally now the other shoe drops with the COVID-19 contagion disaster- the impacts to China may linger for years or even decades.

This is a fact. No one I know is buying an EV. No one I know is planning to buy one.

As it stands now the US will maintain its status as the largest net supplier of oil, and this should not be a news flash but the world economy is pegged to the value of a barrel of oil.

The way things are shaping up here politically I do not see a path forward for the kind of public or private infrastructure landslide needed to make EV's mainstream here in North America anytime soon.

Companies that survive have to be nimble and ready to change on a dime. GM still has a chance to compromise and keep some of its legacy platforms in production.

What I cannot reconcile and what the GM insider agrees on 100% BTW-- is how in the world the US Taxpayer bails out GM in 2011 and saves the company from being sold off only to have the company reward North America with a future product selection that seems goal set to implement a total product shift that ignores the needs and desires of the very customer base that just punched the ticket to keep GM alive.

China did not bail out GM. We did. I hope GM has something really good to announce because It may need The North American market to stay in business.

Great comment! You put into words what I was thinking, but expounded nicely.

As the world stands today, GM seems to be placing all of it's eggs into the wrong basket. As I stated earlier, I have no idea why you would shift an entire portfolio of vehicle offerings in a completely new direction when there is virtually minimal infrastructure to support them, the tech doesn't exist (or is proprietary) to get the range where people are comfortable (range anxiety), and people haven't expressed in enough numbers the desire to drive an electric vehicle. This is a huge bet that I don't think they're going to win.

[Charley Lillard]

My drive each day to the office is about 15 miles. My long trips are usually in old cars on car tours. I love the performance aspect of electric cars and plan on having one. No more oil changes, just plug it in at night. A brainiac friend just did a 3 year lease on a new Chevy Bolt and absolutely loves it.

[AnthonyS]

^ Hear, hear Charley. Mrs. Anthony loves ours, and while I only drove it a few times, I was actually very impressed with the acceleration. Really. It scoots. I can’t imagine what one of those crazy Teslas must feel like.

[70 copo]

My drive each day to the office is about 15 miles. My long trips are usually in old cars on car tours. I love the performance aspect of electric cars and plan on having one. No more oil changes, just plug it in at night. A brainiac friend just did a 3 year lease on a new Chevy Bolt and absolutely loves it.


A lease is a smart move. LG Chem has some major teething issues.


The current list price of a Bolt EV HV battery pack is $15,734.29 and the GM part number is # 24285978. What happens when GM quits replacing these for free?


More Here: https://insideevs.com/news/342671/my-chevy-bolt-is-on-third-battery-pack-heres-why/

[RPOLS3]

^ I can’t imagine what one of those crazy Teslas must feel like.


I had an opportunity to drive one last summer when a customer was trying one out before buying and asked if I wanted to take it for a ride. They have a "launch mode" that is quite impressive. Not sure I'd make the switch to electric personally based on my driving needs - but it really opened my eyes to the performance capabilities.

[Tenney]

My drive each day to the office is about 15 miles. My long trips are usually in old cars on car tours. I love the performance aspect of electric cars and plan on having one. No more oil changes, just plug it in at night. A brainiac friend just did a 3 year lease on a new Chevy Bolt and absolutely loves it.

This is why Mary's likely on the right track. They're pretty good. Give a little Performance Model 3 a go if you're shopping around - Pilot Sports, Brembos (to augment the re-gen!) and a little extra juice; why let the autopilot have all the fun?! Just needs the exhaust from this V-dub ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om28CUu1m3I&feature=youtu.be

https://www.ccn.com/tesla-is-slowly-pushing-germany-into-recession/

[Charley Lillard]

https://rivian.com/


Up to 750 hp with up to 400 mile range, 0-60 in 3 seconds and 11000lb towing.


Electric works for me.

[70 copo]

https://rivian.com/


Up to 750 hp with up to 400 mile range, 0-60 in 3 seconds and 11000lb towing.


Electric works for me.

Charley

Please Keep us posted on your ownership experience when you get it.:beers:

[Crush]

https://rivian.com/


Up to 750 hp with up to 400 mile range, 0-60 in 3 seconds and 11000lb towing.


Electric works for me.

My buddy ordered one. HQ in my backyard, looks cool!

[rlw68]

Chevrolet Performance has also been working on an 'eCrate' conversion. They built a 1962 C-10 prototype.

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/1962-chevy-e-10-electric-truck-450-hp-runs-high-13s/

159302

[Charley Lillard]

They call it "tank turn" where two wheels turn in opposite direction.



7BkxjHkOvYY

[Charley Lillard]

QMfxJEfb4lw

[Charley Lillard]

And it is built in ..............Illinois.......

[Tenney]

Those are cool. Met the guys at the auto show this year and last and they're confidence inspiring. Neighbor ordered one - not a car dude. Also has Model S Raven.

Interesting, this may be the first time since the advent of hot-rodding that the lion's share of the quickest cars on the road are driven by non-enthusiasts?

[70 copo]

Built in the USA. Nice!

[70 copo]

And here we go...

https://www.foxnews.com/auto/last-chevrolet-impala-built

[Tenney]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wFEs5GNEzI&feature=youtu.be

[70 copo]

More on the Last Impala... RIP.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a31153803/chevy-impala-end-production/

[Tenney]

They call it "tank turn" where two wheels turn in opposite direction.



7BkxjHkOvYY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kZMhwL7QLY

[70 copo]

Tenney,

This is a thread that I started about statements made by the chair and CEO of General Motors Company Mary Barra, and the future direction of General Motors Company.

Since Rivian is backed jointly by Ford and Amazon and has no relationship with GM Whatsoever, and since you are now duplicating information within the thread already posted by others- I am wondering If perhaps you can start a discussion concerning its product in a separate thread so this one can stay somewhat on track concerning the topic that I started.

Phil

[70 copo]

Here is the critical Mission Statement from GM:

"To achieve global EV adoption, we need to create the most desirable ownership experience possible. This battery electric architecture provides the framework needed to integrate advanced technology, lengthen vehicle range and enable emerging connectivity options. Overcoming range anxiety and curating a personal connection with drivers and their vehicles is key to growing EV ownership"

Here: https://www.gm.com/our-stories/technology/gm-technology-paves-the-way-for-an-all-electric-future.html

[70 copo]

This is the best way to deal with Range Anxiety as it stands now:

1. Be ready to plan your trip to take the absolute shortest route to your destination.

2. Be ready to wait for a charger station to become available when you arrive.

3. Be ready to find something to do while you wait for your battery to charge.

4. Repeat.

I guess GM will need to retire the "Find New Roads" ad campaign because you will be forced to do the opposite since the GM announcement appears to indicate that there is no technology enhancement coming near term to address the main issue blocking the path to EV ownership for the masses which is the loss of driving freedom and imposed range limitations.

[Charley Lillard]

I think back to how impossible it was going to be to make big flat screen TV's affordable for the masses. Now they are dirt cheap. I have no doubt that America will figure out how to make it work.

[70 copo]

Agreed. Airflow based renewable is the key to charging batteries. Like cold fusion however some claim it works but only on a small scale in a laboratory.

I had hopes GM was planning on a technology revolution but it looks like they are simply chasing better batteries in conjunction with hydrogen technology.

[Mr70]

Charley reminds me of that one dead pixel I can never get to work.

[Tenney]

MicroCyber ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QZ9MLQOo-4&feature=youtu.be

[70 copo]

Tenney,

This is a thread that I started about statements made by the chair and CEO of General Motors Company Mary Barra, and the future direction of General Motors Company.

Since Rivian is backed jointly by Ford and Amazon and has no relationship with GM Whatsoever, and since you are now duplicating information within the thread already posted by others- I am wondering If perhaps you can start a discussion concerning its product in a separate thread so this one can stay somewhat on track concerning the topic that I started.

Phil

Tenney,

Do you have an opinion about the claims that GM is making about the Hummer that is coming out in a couple of years? Like 1100 HP and Torque to match?

Humor me please as I try to keep the thread on track,- why not contribute something meaningful?

[Tenney]

Tenney,

Do you have an opinion about the claims that GM is making about the Hummer that is coming out in a couple of years? Like 1100 HP and Torque to match?

Humor me please as I try to keep the thread on track,- why not contribute something meaningful?

Sorry for goin' on walkabout w/topic, Phil - 1100HP/Torque sounds like an action-packed combo platter - hope it happens!

[JoeC]

The next generation nuclear power plants such as the Fast-neutron reactors may change everything

Expensive to build but can make a lot of electric power with low waste

[mssl72]

I'm gonna retrofit one of these:

https://i.ibb.co/d4XWH51/delorean-40-153.jpg (https://ibb.co/F4cxdDN)

[TomP]

An electric car appeals to me about as much as an electric chair.
It's one thing to claim the numbers based on ideal conditions but when it's cold, raining and dark that electric cars range goes down. If i'm running low on gas I can pull into any gas station. I won't need to get a hotel for the night because there are people ahead of me at the charging station which takes an hour or more each car.

What happens when there is a big power outage like a windstorm? Power is out for weeks...

Certainly one needs to plan any trip in an electric car... no spur of the moment "Well I have never taken this route before" trips across the vast open plains the way I like to do.

This video should be required viewing for those wanting to get an electric car.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqEwLle8xKU

[jdv69z]

The next generation nuclear power plants such as the Fast-neutron reactors may change everything

Expensive to build but can make a lot of electric power with low waste

It either nuclear or fossil fuels. Or less available power/electricity.

[70 copo]

Insider has further commentary:

Says that GM has basically modeled its future around the ideas found in this article from back in 2018:

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/07/20180720-hayden.html

And I went back to read the mission statement from GM and sure enough here is the statement:

"At General Motors, we are in the midst of a company transformation to win in our core automotive business and the future of personal mobility. Our vision is to create a world with Zero Crashes, Zero Emissions and Zero Congestion. The latest step in this journey is the development of our all-new battery electric vehicle architecture, which will pave the way for General Motors’ all-electric future".

Here: https://www.gm.com/our-stories/technology/gm-technology-paves-the-way-for-an-all-electric-future.html

[Lee Stewart]

GM unveils 10 future EVs, new batteries and its plan to beat Tesla

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/gm-unveils-10-future-evs-new-batteries-and-its-plan-to-beat-tesla/ar-BB10JNEx?li=BBnbfcN&ocid=spartandhp

[70 copo]

GM unveils 10 future EVs, new batteries and its plan to beat Tesla

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/gm-unveils-10-future-evs-new-batteries-and-its-plan-to-beat-tesla/ar-BB10JNEx?li=BBnbfcN&ocid=spartandhp

Right now I am a bit creeped out.

The GM insider decided to comment on today's events:

https://www.generalmotors.green/product/public/us/en/GMGreen/home.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2020/mar/0304-ev.html

"The recent Fox Business interview was a complete disaster for the company...many Dealers are up in arms telling GM "Stop you are going to put us out of business" especially dealers outside urban areas".

"Your commentary on the EPA in the other thread hits close to home on many issues but let me red pill you here":

"It is not about the environment but that is the presentation being used, It is about the money, all about the money"

"Gas taxes are tough to raise currently, too many political rear ends in the fire and you are messing with the oil companies and the lobbyists that represent them, so know this big oil wants you to drive your car because that is how they make money and that money gets returned politically.

So why EV's? The money to be gained through taxation is just huge. You will be taxed by the mile. Think of every road as being a toll road. That is the end game here and there is a curve here through adaptation that is anticipated to do the following in this order:

First as more people buy EV's Gas taxes will need to necessarily rise to the point where you will be taxed right out of your ICE car. You will be able to keep it but you will pay so much for fuel EV's will become cheaper to operate.

After EV's are mainstreamed then the combination of tax to operate and the infrastructure and convenience limitations will cause most drivers to actually reduce travel. At this stage autonomous vehicles are projected to take hold with the market causing your car of choice to be a rental,- Meaning you no longer own it you call it for a ride. This all happens in a future projected to have effective urban mass transit for those who need to commute with many teleworking from home.

So here is the take away-GM is chasing a future where you do not own a car, and you do not actually drive one either. It is fully automated and it will take you where you can afford to pay to go.

In other words a futuristic Johnny cab. They do not care about you because you want to drive. If things go to plan GM will not have a product you want to buy - they know that".

[JKZ27]

This has been a topic of interest for me because I work a the dealer.

[Lee Stewart]

https://i.postimg.cc/yxQCZXXF/a29w7-je8i2-1583345567.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[Charley Lillard]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/04/business/gm-electric-car-battery-400-miles-of-range/index.html?fbclid=IwAR17KLvbMEEiuoNd8t9UXCE9xzS0T8 F-ErlWc9jIYTwt6Rn5vOMWodpWOAg

[Tenney]

Or pursue both autonomy as well as driver involvement and give the customer the option to decide the use occasion ...?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2020/03/04/elon-musk-just-teased-a-new-tesla-feature-thats-way-more-useful-than-smart-summon/#1400001d22ea

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9LS7O7UqZ0

[70 copo]

Point:

400 miles is not shabby. So what this means on a trip is that you will have to plan to stop to recharge at 6 hours under ideal conditions perhaps 5 hours with hills max. If you are hauling a load or towing even less. As long as you route to hit chargers and you do not mind the wait.

Counterpoint:

There is zero anxiety anything with ICE. I can go as far as I want all I do is buy a tank of gas.back on the road in under 6 minutes usually the cup of coffee and the restroom break takes longer so we will say 10 minutes to be fair.

Lets have some fun with this...so I am gonna hash tag and bold (#) where EV's achieve parity with ICE right now.

Travel when I want #

Travel where I want

Travel the route I want.

No anxiety with Hills and mountains

No anxiety with Hauling-Towing

No anxiety with wilderness Off road trips

No anxiety using PC's watching movies, or charging phones in vehicle.

No anxiety with a long delay in traffic due to a wreck or traffic jam.

No anxiety due to long lines to fuel.

No anxiety due to delays while fueling is occurring.

No anxiety as to my cost to travel via taxation.

No anxiety as to repairs if it breaks down (pretty much anyplace)

____________________________________________

Ok I see only 1 # listed above anyone disagree?

The insider warned me that GM likely monitoring this thread because it contains Mary's name in the title.

I say good.:biggthumpup:

[markinnaples]

Just in cast they're not: #GM #marybarra

[Charley Lillard]

Maybe once every 10 years am I driving 6 hours straight unless it is in a old car on a road trip. How often does everyone drive over 400 miles or say 300 miles to account for the range depleting things you mention. My guess is a 300 mile range will cover 95% of peoples yearly driving.
As to travel cost due to taxation you are paying gasoline taxes every time you fill up.

[70 copo]

Good point. For short trips when there is no time pressure yes.

For most working class people time is money and everyone is is a rush all the time these days. GM comes up with a battery that will recharge in under 10 minutes they will have a winner.

[Charley Lillard]

300 miles is a short trip ? I'm saying most of the time people are not even driving 300 miles per trip. How many miles do you drive to and from work each day ? Do you do that 5 days a week ? My guess is you can drive a electric to and from work each day, run errands etc and simply plug in at night when you are sleeping. My guess is most working class people drive much less than 300-400 miles each day so simply plugging in at night should be fine.

[70 copo]

Zero. Retired.

I consider 300 miles a pretty short trip. That is only 4 about hours in a car. Pretty easy to do actually if you are going to swap meets every weekend here around the east coast.

The point I guess I am trying to make here is most families have two vehicles and both of these have to go to work as well as longer trips. It is all about convenience and being time efficient. When you are off and you have to be someplace nobody wants to screw around they want to get there and get back.

A guy I used to work with had a Bolt to get to work and he got it only because he had a ton of points on his GM card and his accountant told him to take advantage of the $7500 dollar US Government tax incentives offered towards the purchase. He also had a Hemi Ram, and a CTS for everything else.

[Jeff H]

How do we recharge our EV at night when there is no sun to generate solar energy? :grin: I only put 6000 miles on my Tacoma in the last 2 years so an EV regular cab pickup would probably work for me if somebody decides to build one.

[Charley Lillard]

Hey Jeff...My guess is you can add Tesla battery storage to your homes solar power and get the cars charge off of the batteries at night :-)

[Charley Lillard]

I live in the country and have a 550 gallon gas tank here at the house. We really enjoy not having to go to a gas station and deal with the crackheads that seem to be everywhere. Having a electric vehicle that you just plugged in at home would also spare you from having to go to the gas station. Also wouldn't need to worry about oil changes. Maybe a two car family has one of each with the non electric used on those long trips when needed.

[TomP]

I would run out of range several times a year and think i'd only ever have to do that once to learn never to try again. I make a couple 16 to 18 hours at a stretch drives. No way would I tolerate breaking that up into extra days or being stuck in some remote town twiddling my thumbs for hours and not being a third of the way there yet.
On last summer's trip i'd have been really up the creek if I was in an electric car and was still plenty concerned driving a gas one after a shortcut in northern California ended with a blocked road 100 miles in... and had to backtrack the same way that extra hundred then find a gas station which involved trying several towns and running down to less than 3 miles of range left. The egg under the gas pedal driving style is perfected when you have 34 miles of gas left and the next closest place to get it is 35 miles away.

After getting gas I still had to detour to a road that meant an extra 200 miles of driving to get to where I was going 20 miles from the blockade.

As it was the long detour meant driving triple digit speeds to get there.

My brother used to have a propane powered Dodge van. Not a conversion a Canadian factory built one. He tried to drive to Mexico, he had a list of all the propane stations the whole way. Since there was not enough range on I5 south of Stockton he had to take 99. He had no problems getting propane until then, the next station was open 9 to 5... he gets there after 4pm and it is just a tool rental shop and the pump was in the back through a 3 foot wide door. He had to take the tank out which took him all of Friday night into the next morning. Laying in the dirt using minimal hand tools and the bumper jack to get enough space to get the tank under the rocker panel.
Then the guy who fills propane wasn't there Saturday, they weren't open Sunday so it was Monday morning when he got it filled and Monday late afternoon when he had the tank back in the van and turned around for home.

[JoeC]

Tesla V3 Supercharging adds 75 miles in just 5 minutes

the future does not look good for new fossil fuel vehicles

"Many countries are now banning new vehicles that run on fossil fuels like gasoline, diesel or liquefied petroleum gas. Germany, India, Ireland, Israel, and the Netherlands have announced plans to ban fossil fuel cars starting in 2030; Britain, France, Taiwan and California will ban them in 2040; and Norway in 2025. Paris, Rome, Madrid, Athens and Mexico City will ban diesel vehicles in 2025."

[Crush]

Tesla V3 Supercharging adds 75 miles in just 5 minutes

the future does not look good for new fossil fuel vehicles

"Many countries are now banning new vehicles that run on fossil fuels like gasoline, diesel or liquefied petroleum gas. Germany, India, Ireland, Israel, and the Netherlands have announced plans to ban fossil fuel cars starting in 2030; Britain, France, Taiwan and California will ban them in 2040; and Norway in 2025. Paris, Rome, Madrid, Athens and Mexico City will ban diesel vehicles in 2025."

I just can’t see how these countries can ban fossil fuels in short order. As stated a few times, they are lacking the infrastructure to go electric at least short term.
With the recent fluctuations of the stock market and dropping of oil prices the political influence becomes much stronger in terms of controlling the economic impact to the world by reduced oil use. Many on this site have experienced recession and inflation as it relates to the price of a barrel of oil and to some extent our economy could be impacted by the reduction of fossil fuel use.

Something to think about is that many 3rd world countries need oil byproducts to sustain life ie., heat their homes. As such the use of fossil fuels will be around a long time.

[70 copo]

Tesla V3 Supercharging adds 75 miles in just 5 minutes

the future does not look good for new fossil fuel vehicles

"Many countries are now banning new vehicles that run on fossil fuels like gasoline, diesel or liquefied petroleum gas. Germany, India, Ireland, Israel, and the Netherlands have announced plans to ban fossil fuel cars starting in 2030; Britain, France, Taiwan and California will ban them in 2040; and Norway in 2025. Paris, Rome, Madrid, Athens and Mexico City will ban diesel vehicles in 2025."

Yes... the world wide war on the internal combustion engine. Many in the hobby are concerned, some are in denial- some are too old to care.

Fortunately markets in the free world are built around the consumer. If electric vehicles are made more convenient, more reliable, safer than an ICE vehicle, then the free market will kill ICE all by its self.

So if GM has a winner then why is Mary Barra is on the record in mid 2019 asking the US Government to change the "200,000 vehicle rule"? This is the the so called "tax credit cliff" which is a subsidy quota that mandates relief to the US taxpayer to stop subsidizing EV sales in the future.

US Government said no.

If GM goes into Chapter again GM could be finished. I suspect the Next 12 months are critical for Mary. as I said back on page 1 She looks to be "all in" at this time. I wish her luck.

[jdv69z]

Right now I am a bit creeped out.

The GM insider decided to comment on today's events:

https://www.generalmotors.green/product/public/us/en/GMGreen/home.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2020/mar/0304-ev.html

"The recent Fox Business interview was a complete disaster for the company...many Dealers are up in arms telling GM "Stop you are going to put us out of business" especially dealers outside urban areas".

"Your commentary on the EPA in the other thread hits close to home on many issues but let me red pill you here":

"It is not about the environment but that is the presentation being used, It is about the money, all about the money"

"Gas taxes are tough to raise currently, too many political rear ends in the fire and you are messing with the oil companies and the lobbyists that represent them, so know this big oil wants you to drive your car because that is how they make money and that money gets returned politically.

So why EV's? The money to be gained through taxation is just huge. You will be taxed by the mile. Think of every road as being a toll road. That is the end game here and there is a curve here through adaptation that is anticipated to do the following in this order:

First as more people buy EV's Gas taxes will need to necessarily rise to the point where you will be taxed right out of your ICE car. You will be able to keep it but you will pay so much for fuel EV's will become cheaper to operate.

After EV's are mainstreamed then the combination of tax to operate and the infrastructure and convenience limitations will cause most drivers to actually reduce travel. At this stage autonomous vehicles are projected to take hold with the market causing your car of choice to be a rental,- Meaning you no longer own it you call it for a ride. This all happens in a future projected to have effective urban mass transit for those who need to commute with many teleworking from home.

So here is the take away-GM is chasing a future where you do not own a car, and you do not actually drive one either. It is fully automated and it will take you where you can afford to pay to go.

In other words a futuristic Johnny cab. They do not care about you because you want to drive. If things go to plan GM will not have a product you want to buy - they know that".

So who gets hurt the most here? The poor who do not have the means to adapt to these changes. Meanwhile politicians spew rhetoric about how they "care" for the poor. The saddest part of all is that too many believe the rhetoric.

[Jeff H]

Hey Jeff...My guess is you can add Tesla battery storage to your homes solar power and get the cars charge off of the batteries at night :-)

What price range do the batteries cost? I have solar on my house, but it feeds the grid and I get credit for what goes out and then use the grid when the solar isn't producing. I'm sure I would need more panels to charge a vehicle in addition power the house.

[70 copo]

So who gets hurt the most here? The poor who do not have the means to adapt to these changes. Meanwhile politicians spew rhetoric about how they "care" for the poor. The saddest part of all is that too many believe the rhetoric.

Socialism and its policies has little impact on the wealthy
and the poor.

The middle of the society always carries the cost because they work, and pay the majority of the taxes.

[Charley Lillard]

What price range do the batteries cost? I have solar on my house, but it feeds the grid and I get credit for what goes out and then use the grid when the solar isn't producing. I'm sure I would need more panels to charge a vehicle in addition power the house.
I think you can get Tesla batteries for cheap but would check into it since you already have solar.

[Tenney]

Fortunately markets in the free world are built around the consumer. If electric vehicles are made more convenient, more reliable, safer than an ICE vehicle, then the free market will kill ICE all by its self.

Yep, and more fun?

Won't mean wooden rollercoasters aren't still a blast, though!

[Mr70]

Like watching a drag race between 2 cars,in silence.

[70 copo]

There is zero anxiety anything with ICE. I can go as far as I want all I do is buy a tank of gas.back on the road in under 6 minutes usually the cup of coffee and the restroom break takes longer so we will say 10 minutes to be fair.

Lets have some fun with this...so I am gonna hash tag and bold (#) where EV's achieve parity with ICE right now.

Travel when I want #

Travel where I want

Travel the route I want.

No anxiety with Hills and mountains

No anxiety with Hauling-Towing

No anxiety with wilderness Off road trips

No anxiety using PC's watching movies, or charging phones in vehicle.

No anxiety with a long delay in traffic due to a wreck or traffic jam.

No anxiety due to long lines to fuel.

No anxiety due to delays while fueling is occurring.

No anxiety as to my cost to travel via taxation.

No anxiety as to repairs if it breaks down (pretty much anyplace)



Tenney,

It is not exactly about fun or roller coasters. Please tell me what am I missing here?

[70 copo]

Without knowing the safety of the newer upcoming Battery technology from GM what we have today is Knowledge based upon experience. What we know:

These EV's can experience multiple classes of fires:

Class A (tires, fabrics, plastics).
Class B (fuel).
Class C (lithium-ion batteries in hybrid and electric cars).
Class D (magnesium, titanium, aluminum and lithium).
Electric vehicle fires can exceed 5,000 F. Applying water or foam may cause a violent flare-up as the water molecules separate into explosive hydrogen and oxygen gases.

There are several common risks for first responders associated with electric vehicle fires:

Electrical shock (up to 400 volts).
Extremely high temperatures and thermal runaway.
Toxic fumes.
Lithium burns (respiratory and skin reactions).
Toxic runoff.
Reignition up to 24 hours after initial extinguishment.

[70 copo]

To be fair here there are still more fires with ICE cars simply because the majority of vehicles are ICE.

Perhaps GM's new batteries are fire resistant? As of now however EV's catch fire all by themselves and that is another teething pain associated with the technology.

So you got to ask yourself? Do I put my EV in the garage at night and roll the dice?

Choices aplenty.

[Tenney]

Tenney,

It is not exactly about fun or roller coasters. Please tell me what am I missing here?

Don't think you're missing anything, Phil, per your take on the free market sorting things out. Spot on.

[Tenney]

7:57 (the whole clip's kinda cool, too) ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dhh3JPGEEK8

[Tenney]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=600&v=Pgp0t2uxXfc&feature=emb_logo

[Tenney]

9:15 ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4C6mwA-fAA&feature=emb_logo

[JoeC]

seems like the electric stuff is gaining popularity fast

electric motorcycles, bicycles, lawn mowers, power washers, weed whackers, etc

even electric aircraft

https://www.theatlantic.com/sponsored/thomson-reuters-why-2025-matters/electric-flight/208/

[70 copo]

Wayne,

For the sake of the discussion let's dig a bit further shall we? This is within the context of the burgeoning "right to repair" movement

Quote from GM: “Proponents incorrectly conflate ownership of a vehicle with ownership of the underlying computer software in a vehicle.”

GM has been able to mostly avoid the negativity here to date by simply implementing a lax enforcement stance and building a high quality product that requires on average few repairs. Kudos to GM!

John Deere... has decided to take on the farmers. Like Harley Davidson John Deere has made a calculated decision to show the people who buy, use and depend on its products "who is the boss"

Quick Background on what this issue is:

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/203913-general-motors-john-deere-want-to-keep-tinkering-self-repair-illegal

Now a farmer is taking Deer to the mat:

“The spirit of the right-to-repair is the birthright we all share as a hot-rodding nation,” he says, channeling his inner Thomas Jefferson and Big Daddy Don Garlits".

"Big Tractor says farmers have no right to access the copyrighted software that controls every facet of today’s equipment, even to repair their own machines".

The computer sees a problem and the entire tractor is bricked right then and there - often in the field until an authorized Deere Rep can arrive to fix it or haul it back to the dealer.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-03-05/farmers-fight-john-deere-over-who-gets-to-fix-an-800-000-tractor

SO...What do you want to bet that with the newest electric car technology - GM will likely go full tilt in the near future with the kinds of intellectual control (“an implied license") the enforcement tactic of choice that Deer has in place today BTW all conveniently wrapped in the need for "safety" of course.goggles

[70 copo]

So for you future electric Hot Rodding guys, here is your likely future as an "outlaw" hot rod hacker

Tractors today....cars tomorrow just saying:

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/xykkkd/why-american-farmers-are-hacking-their-tractors-with-ukrainian-firmware

[Charley Lillard]

The new electric cars can go so fast already I'm not sure how much hotrodding will be needed anyway. :-)

[70 copo]

Interesting!

https://jalopnik.com/chevy-is-putting-its-new-401-hp-v8-in-a-van-1842213938/amp

[TomP]

Ha, my cousin is near you (Gabriola) and drives a gas powered car... no big deal except he worked at Ballard in the 80's and always drove electric cars and motorcycles since back then. If he hasn't embraced the technology i'm sure not going to be a guinea pig for it.

[70 copo]

The mighty 6.6 L8T Note the successor (NONE)

Everybody will be looking for this engine in the yards soon for swaps.

At least the van is going out in style because the 6.0 was uninspiring.

[Tenney]

Thats not the point.

Many of us here find satisfaction and enjoyment from actually working on cars. At least from my perspective, electric appliances clearly don't offer that.


Wayne

Croatian hot-rodder - worth sticking around for the chat circa 12:07 ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QI0bc0OdbvQ&feature=youtu.be

[67since67]

Wayne,

John Deere... has decided to take on the farmers. Like Harley Davidson John Deere has made a calculated decision to show the people who buy, use and depend on its products "who is the boss"

Quick Background on what this issue is:

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/203913-general-motors-john-deere-want-to-keep-tinkering-self-repair-illegal

Now a farmer is taking Deer to the mat:

“The spirit of the right-to-repair is the birthright we all share as a hot-rodding nation,” he says, channeling his inner Thomas Jefferson and Big Daddy Don Garlits".

"Big Tractor says farmers have no right to access the copyrighted software that controls every facet of today’s equipment, even to repair their own machines".

The computer sees a problem and the entire tractor is bricked right then and there - often in the field until an authorized Deere Rep can arrive to fix it or haul it back to the dealer.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-03-05/farmers-fight-john-deere-over-who-gets-to-fix-an-800-000-tractor

SO...What do you want to bet that with the newest electric car technology - GM will likely go full tilt in the near future with the kinds of intellectual control (“an implied license") the enforcement tactic of choice that Deer has in place today BTW all conveniently wrapped in the need for "safety" of course.goggles

I happen to live within ten miles of the Deere engine plant, Product Engineering Center where Deere tractor development happens, and the factory that builds the largest Deere tractors that are shipped world-wide.
I am also connected to the farming community. There is a push-back of sorts going on from the smaller farming operations (under 3,000 acres) against this technology, it's cost and related inconvenience. There is a surge in values and sales of older pre-computerized tractors and equipment. 40 year old tractors, Deere 4440 and such, are in high demand because of their dependability, relatively low cost and ease of maintenance. On the other hand, the new several hundred thousand dollar tractors continue to sell also.

Bill W

[Tenney]

Brand new 1.2 million dollar Rimac clectric hypercar and according to the Financial Times, it burned for five (5!) days after the crash....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18oAkxwYQh0

[70 copo]

Wayne,

Spot on well thought out analysis.

[BCreekDave]

The new electric cars can go so fast already I'm not sure how much hotrodding will be needed anyway. :-)
I remember my Dad saying that about my Camaro.:grin:

[Tenney]

I'm not certain what the relevancy of a (now) 2+million dollar electric hypercar has to do with me not wanting to work on an electric car?

Mate's a hot-rodder who's found satisfaction and enjoyment working on electric motors for a while - dropping his first one into a small BMW, he said. So it's doable (if you want).

[Tenney]

Kinda cool three-banger ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsXRIEZ1qGE

[Lee Stewart]

Tesla Is Now The Most Valuable Industrial Company In America

It is still trading very highly, giving it a market capitalization of $107 billion as of this morning, or about $15 billion more than Boeing, which had been America’s most valuable industrial company.

And THAT is why GM MUST go after the electric cars/trucks market with a vengeance.

[70 copo]

“We continue to believe TSLA is fundamentally overvalued,” noted the analyst, who’s price forecast calls for a 65% plunge in the stock".

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/05/analyst-warns-young-investors-to-watch-out-for-tesla-bubble-not-to-sound-like-an-ok-boomer.html


And: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/04/business/tesla-stock-price.html

And: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-we-know-that-tesla-is-a-bubble-that-is-going-to-pop-2020-02-04

[70 copo]

Yes what follows is an opinion editorial, however, the conclusions are boilerplate.

Now Lets lump on Cheap Oil into the equation shall we? Keystone Pipeline, and Sustained shale oil production. Right now and for the foreseeable future there will be cheap oil, except in states of course where gasoline is taxed for political purposes that is.

Gasoline at 1.86 a gallon here yesterday. Even adjusted for inflation that is bottom of the bucket post WW2 valuation levels for gas.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"An electric automobile will convert 5-10 percent of the energy in natural gas into motion. A normal vehicle will convert 20-30 percent of the energy in gasoline into motion. That's 3 or 4 times more energy recovered with an internal combustion vehicle than an electric vehicle.

Electricity is a specialty product. It's not appropriate for transportation. It looks cheap at this time, but that's because it was designed for toasters, not transportation. Increase the amount of wiring and infrastructure by a factor of a thousand, and it's expensive.

Electricity does not scale up properly to the transportation industry due to its miniscule nature. Sure, a whole lot can be used for something, but at extraordinary expense.

Using electricity as an energy source requires two energy transformation steps, while using petroleum requires only one. With electricity, the original energy, usually chemical energy, must be transformed into electrical energy; and then the electrical energy is transformed into the kinetic energy of motion. With an internal combustion engine, the only transformation step is the conversion of chemical energy to kinetic energy in the combustion chamber.

The difference matters, because there is a lot of energy lost every time it is transformed or used. Electrical energy is harder to handle and loses more in its handling.

The use of electrical energy requires it to move into and out of the space medium (aether) through induction. Induction through the aether medium should be referred to as another form of energy, but physicists sandwich it into the category of electrical energy. Going into and out of the aether through induction loses a lot of energy.


Another problem with electricity is that it loses energy to heat production due to resistance in the wires. A short transmission line will have 20 percent loss built in, and a long line will have 50 percent loss built in. These losses are integrated because reducing the loss by half would require twice as much metal in the wires. Wires have to be optimized for diameter and strength, which means doubling the metal would be doubling the number of transmission lines.

High voltage transformers can achieve 90 percent efficiency with expensive designs, but household level voltages achieve only 50 percent efficiency. Electric motors can get up to 60 percent efficiency, but only at optimum rpms and load. For autos, they average 25 percent efficiency. Gasoline engines get 25 percent efficiency with old-style carburetors and 30 percent with fuel injection, though additional loses can occur.

Applying this brilliant engineering to the problem yields this result: A natural gas electric generating turbine gets 40 percent efficiency. A high voltage transformer gets 90 percent efficiency. A household level transformer gets 50 percent efficiency. A short transmission line gets 20 percent loss, which is 80 percent efficiency. The total is 40 percent x 90 percent x 50 percent x 80 percent = 14.4 percent of the energy recovered before the electrical system does something similar to the gasoline engine in the vehicle. Some say the electricity performs a little better in the vehicle, but it's not much.

Electricity appears to be easy to handle sending it through wires. But it is the small scale that makes it look cheap. Scaling it up takes a pound of metal for so many electron-miles. Twice as much distance means twice as much metal. Twice as many amps means twice as much metal. Converting the transportation system into an electrical based system would require scaling up the amount of metal and electrical infrastructure by factors of hundreds or thousands. Where are all those lines going to go? They destroy environments. Where is that much natural gas going to come from for the electrical generators? There is very little natural gas in existence when using it for a large-scale purpose. Natural gas must be used with solar and wind energy, because only it can be turned on and off easily for backup.


One of the overwhelming facts about electric transportation is the chicken and egg phenomenon. Supposedly, a lot of electric vehicles will create an incentive to create a lot of expensive infrastructure. There are a lot of reasons why none of the goals can be met for such an infrastructure. The basic problem is that electricity will never be appropriate for such demanding use as general transportation, which means there will never be enough chickens or eggs to balance the demand. It's like trying to improve a backpack to such an extent that it will replace a pickup truck. The limitations of muscle metabolism are like the limitations of electrical energy.

Electrons are not a space-saving form of energy. Electrons have to be surrounded by large amounts of metal. It means electric motors get heavy and large. When cruising around town, the problems are not so noticeable. But the challenges of ruggedness are met far easier with internal combustion engines. Engineers say it is nice to get rid of the drive train with electric vehicles. But in doing so, they add clutter elsewhere, which adds weight, takes up space and messes up the suspension system. Out on the highway, the suspension system is the most critical factor.

These problems will prevent electric vehicles from replacing petroleum vehicles for all but specialty purposes. The infrastructure needed for electric vehicles will never exist when limited to specialty purposes. This would be true even with the perfect battery which takes up no space and holds infinite charge"



https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/The-Inconvenient-Truth-About-Electric-Vehicles.html

[70 copo]

One more thing. The article got the attention of the pro EV community which tried to fuzzy up the math contained in the opinion in the comments section. There is some validity however.

Lets explore There is cost and energy placed in the drilling refining and transportation of oil to make gasoline. True.

However, do not forget that the scale up for implementation and mainstreaming of EV's does not exist.

All of the infrastructure, logistics, and current economy for oil exists now and functions quite well.

So once you build in the scale up cost and the economic chaos that will be created by a sudden shift to EV infrastructure the price to implement takes on orbital level cost implications.

The conclusion is that when you apply the argument evenly to both sides oil wins again and wins conclusively.

[markinnaples]

COPO, completely agree with your analysis.

And last I heard, Tesla hasn't made a profit without government subsidies, so unless that has changed in recent months/year, then how is that the most valuable tech company if they truly aren't making a profit? There always seemed to be fuzzy math around Tesla and if GM is using them as a target/role model, they're barking up the wrong tree.

Why not do a gentle transition from ICE vehicles to EVs? A much safer and reasonable approach in my opinion. Think about it, if you're doing almost anything and you abruptly change direction, 80-90% of the time you're going to mess up and things aren't going to end well. But if you do a gentle transition, most of the time there will be a successful ending.

Why bet an entire billion dollar company on a technology that needs so much more development on both the battery side and the infrastructure side when you could continue with the ICE vehicles while heavily investing in EVs as they will most likely be the future, but ease into it. There's, IMHO, a 10-20% chance of this working out well for GM really well.

[70 copo]

Reuters interviewed executives for both Ford and GM for the article below.

Development: Ford stock was just downgraded to Junk status and GM is now being threatened with the same potential downgrade.

So Ford is now saying this to its investors:

Executives at GM and Ford told Reuters in interviews they are serious about launching more electric vehicles in the United States in the coming years, but they are concerned about getting too far ahead of mass-market demand.

“We’re trying to time this with the natural demand of consumers (so) we’re not forced to do artificial things and we don’t violate the laws of economics,” Hau Thai-Tang, Ford’s chief product development and purchasing officer," told Reuters

I like it. Laws of economics -- Translation: We cannot build things the market will not buy.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-emissions-suvs-insight/detroits-near-future-based-on-suvs-not-evs-production-plans-show-idUSKBN21D1KW

[JoeC]

the automotive press is watching the sales of the Renault ZOE EV

https://insideevs.com/news/399451/renault-ev-sales-january-2020/

[markinnaples]

Considering that gas is priced at $1.65/gal at our local Sam's Club, not sure the demand for EV's is there. I know this may be temporary, but anything close to $2/gal will diminish the desire for EV's a great deal, IMHO.

[Keith Seymore]

Considering that gas is priced at $1.65/gal at our local Sam's Club, not sure the demand for EV's is there. I know this may be temporary, but anything close to $2/gal will diminish the desire for EV's a great deal, IMHO.


$4 to $5 per gallon was the tipping point when I was on the Volt program (now ten years ago).

That was when we would see sales shift from large SUVs and pickups to small cars.

K

[Lee Stewart]

Solar Charging May Be The Key To Shoring Up America's Rural EV Infrastructure

Electrify America and Envision Solar have joined forces in an attempt to bring electric car charging to routes through rural areas without steady and reliable access to a power grid. The initial test will involve thirty of these “EV ARC” units deployed throughout California’s Central, Coachella, and Imperial Valleys to help EV drivers traverse parts of the state that had previously been difficult or range-anxious to reach.

Each of these charging stations are equipped with solar-tracking 4.28 kW photovoltaic arrays and 32 kWh of on-board battery storage. With this system Electrify America says it can charge two vehicles at the same time with up to 6 kW charge speeds through the supplied EA level 2 chargers.

In today’s climate of everyone talking level 3 DC fast chargers, that 6 kW doesn’t sound like much, but it’ll get something like a Nissan Leaf charged up from empty to the tippy top in 4-ish hours, as opposed to the 20 hours or so it takes plugged into a 110 outlet. And besides, it’s 100% renewable energy, which is all kinds of bitchin’.

https://jalopnik.com/solar-charging-may-be-the-key-to-shoring-up-americas-ru-1842476405

[70 copo]

Plan B:

https://www.foxnews.com/auto/general-motors-honda-electric-vehicles

[Lee Stewart]

VW Says The Combustion Engine Is Far From Dead

Being such a large automaker with multiple brands under its umbrella, the Volkswagen Group can afford to invest heavily in electrification without having to put the internal combustion engine on the backburner. Their gasoline engines are now more efficient than ever while the much-criticized diesels that generated billions of dollars in fines are now as clean as current technology allows it.

BMW is also a strong believer the combustion engine still has a long life ahead as R&D boss, Klaus Froehlich, expressed the company’s commitment to ICEs for at least 30 more years. Some of the engines in low demand and/or expensive to produce will be gradually dropped, but BMW has vowed to sell diesels for 20 more years and gasoline engines for about 30.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/vw-says-the-combustion-engine-is-far-from-dead/ar-BB12dMSE?ocid=spartandhp

[Lynn]

GM has a bit of history overstating objectives based on the enthusiasm of the day. I remember training at one of the GM tech schools here in OKC in 1979-80. We were told that by 1985 GM would be front wheel drive across the board; including pick up trucks. They obviously back peddled from that.

ICE will be with us for quite a while in one form or another.

[MagicRatt]

WOW.....kool thread to read. Lots of opinions and ideas about EV vs. ICE. I will never be a fan of any electric motor powered anything unless it's my HO train collection. Call me old school, that's fine. I did take notice that some folks on this board seem to be afraid of visiting gas stations. Someone mentioned(insert sarcasm here) something about watching a drag race in silence. I get it, just don't like the notion of it. Part of the driving thrill is the sounds and smell, even if it is only a ride to the gas pumps. I know I will flame out someday, but it won't be in an EV.

Rich

[Charley Lillard]

Gas will be around for a long time but the performance from electric is the main attraction for me. I love torque and electric comes out on top for low end seat of the pants torque.


Anyone into RC cars has probably had the gas powered ones and the electric ones. Electric has taken over. Curious what the market balance is between gas and electric RC cars.
I'm not afraid of visiting gas stations but given a choice I would just as soon skip them.

[Tenney]

Can't beat the sound of an Opel Kadett ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkbIKBfjGJE

[70 copo]

The Opel is angry no doubt about it.

For fun lets match the current EV record holder at Nurburgring - the Porsche Tycan Prototype against a 6 year old ICE car with a 14 year old technology based ICE engine.

I chose the old 2014 Z/28 (bad heads and all) for this match up because it is normally aspirated and has lap times that are closest to the current EV world record holder.

The times:

Porsche Tycan Prototype 7:42

Production Camaro Z/28 7:37

8m31EgQkswg

kz70cXFrQ5A



If you would rather drive the Porsche please explain why I have a genuine interest, and I am sure GM does as well

[70 copo]

After hot lapping in a Z/28 in Detroit I promptly nicknamed it the "chainsaw with a transmission"

The old LS7 is flat angry at RPM.:flag:

[JoeC]

this is an interesting article,
I think the only way to save the ICE long term is to go with a synthetic fuel and they can use Green energy to make the fuel


synthetic fuels can make combustion engines CO2-neutral


https://www.energydigital.com/sustainability/bosch-synthetic-fuels-can-make-combustion-engines-co2-neutral

[70 copo]

Joe,

How can we make the production of EV's carbon neutral because currently producing an electric vehicle contributes, on average, twice as much to global warming potential and uses double the amount of energy than producing a combustion engine car.

So what do we need to do differently to EV's?

[Crush]

After hot lapping in a Z/28 in Detroit I promptly nicknamed it the "chainsaw with a transmission"

The old LS7 is flat angry at RPM.:flag:

I agree every time I get mine out!!!
PS No “Head” issues

[70 copo]

And to stay with the question: would you guys rather drive the Porsche?

Please explain why I have a genuine interest, and I am sure GM does as well

[70 copo]

I agree every time I get mine out!!!
PS No “Head” issues

You get yours fixed Yet?

Details Here: https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/consumer-products/auto-news/gm-class-action-says-corvette-engine-is-defective/

[JoeC]

Joe,

How can we make the production of EV's carbon neutral because currently producing an electric vehicle contributes, on average, twice as much to global warming potential and uses double the amount of energy than producing a combustion engine car.

So what do we need to do differently to EV's?


I am a mechanical engineer so I don't know a lot about EVs and I like ICEs better then EVs but I think EVs will continue to develop and improve as people want to buy them.

The ICE will be around for a long time but it seems a lot more resources are going into the EV.

Coal, gas and oil have fueled the industrial revolution for 100 years but can't do it for the next 100 years.

The Coronavirus crisis is going to turn a lot more people against fossil fuels as they see reduced levels of air pollution and greenhouse gas emissions from the lower fossil fuel consumption.

https://atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/the-implications-of-the-coronavirus-crisis-on-the-global-energy-sector-and-the-environment/

[70 copo]

Gotcha! Thanks for being honest.

[Tenney]

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a32094033/cadillac-ct5-v-blackwing-confirmed-2021/

[67since67]

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a32094033/cadillac-ct5-v-blackwing-confirmed-2021/

Hmmm, I'm going to need a new DD one of these days....

[70 copo]

Well we had the E-COPO Prototype about 14 months ago:

mUH1Sgmi6Xg


And Ford has finally replied with its electric prototype:

q7WgkJna-lM

[70 copo]

Cobra JEt story here:

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2020/04/23/ford-performance-introduces-all-electric-mustang-cobra-jet-1400.html

[Tenney]

Just need plates and street meats - unless the batteries are too rad for the road, or motor(s) run hot/load-up in bumper-to-bumper?

[70 copo]

Following the lead of Harley Davidson back in in 2019 General Motors launched an electric bike division called ARiV, initially offering two different urban e-bike models: the folding "Merge" and the non-folding single speed "Meld".

Both bikes had a GM-designed 250 watt motor and 240 watt hour battery. Charge time
was around 3.5 hours.

Again, following the lead of Harley Davidson - GM canceled its own e-bike division shuttering the entire program.

https://electrek.co/2020/05/16/gm-kills-off-its-ariv-electric-bicycle/

[70 copo]

RUMORS RUMORS RUMORS

Last week GM reached a major Platform Sharing deal with Honda.


Some history is in order. Chevy LUV was built by ISUZU... 5th gen Nova 85-88 (Corolla) Geo Prism and Pontiac Vibe all built by Toyota at NUMMI.

So if Mary Barra is good for her word- which is to have GM switch to all EV underpinnings by 2024 - then one way to get there is to continue to sell ICE vehicles through platform sharing agreements.

The agreement signed last week gives Honda access to GM Ultium battery technology but in the end HONDA may get stuck making the ICE platforms that GM no longer wants to make.

ENJOY:naughty:

[rlw68]

I like the mid-engine Camaro RUMOR a whole lot more ... :dunno:

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2020/04/this-mid-engine-camaro-rendering-looks-amazing-video/

173469

[70 copo]

I like the mid-engine Camaro RUMOR a whole lot more ... :dunno:

All of the talk of the Camaro being built at BG fizzled out when the C-8 emerged as a mid engine.

The Camaro was next proposed to continue as an SUV but the Blazer name was recycled for it.

As of now there is no Camaro past 2023 and no Camaro listed as a product for LGRA after 2023 either.

We will see. According to Mary Barra "the company will need computer coders in greater number than internal combustion engine engineers".

Everything points to GM handing low sales legacy ICE products to another manufacturer to build for sale. Is Honda that Manufacturer? Could be.

[Lee Stewart]

Nikola shares pop as much as 53% after General Motors takes 11% stake in electric truck maker

GM is getting a $2 billion stake in Nikola and the right to nominate one board member in exchange for in-kind services.

Under the partnership, GM will produce the electric truck maker’s marquee hydrogen fuel cell electric pickup truck the Badger by the end of 2022.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/08/general-motors-takes-11percent-stake-and-2-billion-in-equity-in-electric-truck-maker-nikola-.html

[70 copo]

The WSJ did a piece on GM recently (link Below) that really captures all of the changes that are afoot at GM in the moves to go "all electric".

Meaning that GM is willing to completely withdraw from any market that does not have an opportunity to create a near term business case for electric vehicle sales there, and is using the revenue from operational sales of the business asset to fund to the current reinvention of GM as an electric car company-which kind of makes sense because GM stock is in the tank and has stayed there for some time.

I recall the Bail out critics in 2010 saying that after the government bailed out GM it would likely be forced to become a company that we would not recognize - the fear being that GM would be forced to become a different company that would try to leverage a product on the buyer that was radically different and therefore "not good".

Well the radically different part is real and the jury is still out on the "not good" part.

So the docket of Motors Liquidation Corporation pretty much cleared in 2013 and Mary Barra took over in 2014, so what do we have to date?

Since 2015 GM has largely exited India, Russia, is trying to sell its European operations, laid off 8000 salaried employees closed plants in North America, and did the unthinkable to the Australian's- killed the 89 year old "Chevy of Australia" - Holden.

GM was making cars or parts in 25 countries. Now only 9.

So there you have it. GM is essentially burning through its legacy global holdings in order to finance the electric transformation that is underway.

Word was that the Fate of the Camaro was decided in June at the meeting Barra held in the GM Design Dome and this meeting is confirmed in the article.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-incredible-shrinking-gm-mary-barra-finds-success-by-getting-smaller-11600438421

[markinnaples]

Just my opinion here, but to me, they're (GM) jumping off the EV cliff without a parachute when they say they're going all electric in the early 2020's. The electric infrastructure just isn't where it needs to be and it's going to take years to get it where it can sustain a giant influx of electric vehicles.
I always thought now would be the time for McDonald's to install a few electric charging stations at each of their restaurants that are located at interstate exchanges so when the EV's do start coming out, people can stop and eat there while they charge. They could even start charging people for the electricity, and at the same time move their menu up so they offer some better food options along with the some of the old stuff for people on budgets. I think they would make a metric crap ton of money on that.

[markinnaples]

Another brick in the...new...wall:
https://jalopnik.com/the-2021-gmc-hummer-ev-heres-all-of-it-1845431798

[70 copo]

GM has the bases covered in the event public sector monies cannot be tapped near term.

Barra is already on the record stating that there is an estimated 20 year transition away from ICE which dates to the time GM was in negations with Honda on platform sharing.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2020/06/u-s-consumer-shift-to-electric-vehicles-will-take-at-least-20-years-general-motors-ceo-says/

[70 copo]

Not Good.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-gm-recall/gm-recalling-nearly-69000-bolt-evs-for-fire-risks-idUSKBN27T2LG

[AnthonyS]

Not Good.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-gm-recall/gm-recalling-nearly-69000-bolt-evs-for-fire-risks-idUSKBN27T2LG

GAH!

Tell me about it!

Mrs. Anthony went out and unplugged ours and went into the system and activated the feature to limit the battery to 90% charging capability.

(I raved about ours earlier on page two of this thread). gah.

[70 copo]

Yea I hear you. GM needed to move on this quickly or the bolt could be the next Cobalt style scandal - except bigger.

A car that you cannot be sure you can safely park in your garage at home is shall we say a "game changer"

Imagine being told you are not permitted by businesses to park next to a structure or in a parking garage, or you pull into a hotel and they make you move it out into a field someplace?

[70 copo]

qdVOTL3Suo0

[rlw68]

"...Putting out different kinds of fires requires different strategies, and a burning gas tank is not the same as burning lithium-ion battery cell pouches. The USFA says EV fires "can exceed 5000 degrees Fahrenheit" and "applying water or foam may cause a violent flareup as the water molecules separate into explosive hydrogen and oxygen gases."


https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a34335268/electric-car-fire-preparedness-ntsb-report/


:eek2:

[JoeC]

Tesla's Cybertruck isn't the only EV Pickup

Electric Pick ups

https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-cars/g33459525/check-out-all-the-electric-pickup-trucks-coming-down-the-pike/

[70 copo]

YOU JUST KNOW THE LITIGATION IS COMING ON THIS ONE:

https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/cadillac-500g-buy-dealers-ev

But in the end it will just simply get harder to buy a Caddy.

[Lee Stewart]

GM renegotiates Nikola deal, erases equity stake and EV pickup production plans

General Motors is backing down from its blockbuster deal with EV startup Nikola. The $2 billion equity-stake deal announced in September, which would give Nikola access to GM’s manufacturing, Ultium battery, and Hydrotec technologies, will be significantly scaled back following renegotiations. Under the new terms of a non-binding agreement, GM’s previous 11-percent stake and role in producing Nikola’s EV pickup have been scrapped.

https://www.hagerty.com/media/news/gm-renegotiates-nikola-deal-erases-equity-stake-and-ev-pickup-production-plans/

[markinnaples]

Mary Barra, IMHO, is a disaster. I haven't looked at their financials, but from a strategic perspective, she seems like she's making things worse instead of better.

[70 copo]

The transformed GM needed a transformed logo. Looks pretty strange indeed...


https://www.autoblog.com/2021/01/08/new-gm-logo-revealed/

[70 copo]

gm has launched "Exhibit Zero"

ENJOY:

https://www.gmexhibitzero.com/?cmp=OLA_DISPLAY_25121824_291715858_486557959_1445 26355

[Charley Lillard]

I'll take the Cadillac VTOL


https://www.gmexhibitzero.com/exhibits.html

[Mr70]

I see this Video,( https://www.gmexhibitzero.com/exhibits.html ) as proof someone @ GM played with slotcars as a kid.

[JoeC]

1969 GM

The "state of the art" show at the GM Technical Center -- called "Progress of Power" -- included 26 special vehicles which were exhibited or demonstrated, many for the first time. These had a variety of unconventional power plants, including turbine, steam, electric and hybrid systems along with experimental piston engines with reduced air pollutant characteristics.


https://www.gmheritagecenter.com/featured/1969_Experimentals.html

[70 copo]

1969 GM

The "state of the art" show at the GM Technical Center -- called "Progress of Power" -- included 26 special vehicles which were exhibited or demonstrated, many for the first time. These had a variety of unconventional power plants, including turbine, steam, electric and hybrid systems along with experimental piston engines with reduced air pollutant characteristics.


https://www.gmheritagecenter.com/featured/1969_Experimentals.html

Joe, I have had a solid interest in GM's return to electric primarily because one of my side research projects was lending a hand to unraveling the mystery of why no drivetrain 1967 Camaro pilot's were converted to electric.

For the most part I happily stayed in the background for this one but -- boy that turned into a research "rabbit hole" of epic proportions.

Like Echoes however it was a true story that had to be told, and the research had to be completed quickly before the remaining people who were involved were gone.


Here: http://www.pilotcarregistry.com/60-s-gm-electric-car-program.html

[70 copo]

Now 2035

https://www.newsnationnow.com/business/general-motors-sets-goal-of-producing-mostly-electric-cars-by-2035/

[70 copo]

The speculation about Honda and GM and ICE looks to be clarified. It is driverless vehicles.

Here: https://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2018/oct/1003-gm.html

[JoeC]

Its going to be hard to compete with Elon Musk and Tesla if they stay in operation.

He has his own rockets and satellites


https://www.futurecar.com/4239/Elon-Musks-Next-Big-Thing-Could-Be-Using-the-SpaceX-Starlink-Network-to-Connect-Tesla-Vehicles

[70 copo]

One of the shapes that GM is teasing....

[Charley Lillard]

https://www.quantumscape.com/

[markinnaples]

Instead of an LS swap, swap in an electric motor

GM showed a modular electric motor swap kit at SEMA just last year that can be had with a Chevy LS transmission bolt pattern to easily pair it with a variety of transmissions. If you can't wait for that, though, EV West has another way to easily add electric power to your classic.

The company announced on Facebook that it would soon start selling a Tesla crate motor kit. And the important part is that it is fitted with brackets that allow it to be bolted into anything with mounts for either a Chevy LS or Chevy small-block V8.

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/10/02/ev-west-tesla-motor-conversion-chevy-ls-sbc-mount/

[70 copo]

A Lordstown Motors production Test Mule burned to the ground in a Fire In Michigan. This is the new Endurance electric pickup truck.

[JoeC]

I see this LiquidPiston engine company on some of the investment sites

LiquidPiston’s engines are up to 10x smaller and lighter than traditional diesel engines and increase efficiency by 30% thanks to the company’s patented thermodynamic cycle.

Less weight, space, vibration, noise, fuel consumption… More power. Building on over 15 years of R&D, LiquidPiston provides a power solution that can scale to address the needs of the $400B internal combustion engine market and is a key enabler for emerging mobility technologies including electric cars, urban aircraft, and drones.

[Lee Stewart]

Mileage Taxes Will Probably Punish EV Owners — And That's The Point

https://jalopnik.com/mileage-taxes-will-probably-punish-ev-owners-and-that-1846476616

[70 copo]

Covering the bases perhaps??...Just in case the EV switcharoo proves to be a complete sales bust?

The veteran GM engineer's Global Innovation team is looking for new enterprises to expand the automaker's sources of revenue well beyond vehicle sales and is incubating ventures from commercial delivery services to vehicle insurance, to address future markets worth an estimated $1.3 trillion



Link: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-general-motors-redesign-insight/ceo-mary-barra-bets-gm-can-grow-beyond-cars-and-trucks-idUSKBN2BU1A1

[JoeC]

new Ferrari SF90 twin turbo V8 and 3 electric motors

The fastest Ferrari road car ever made is also among the most usable. Performance is staggering. While it's hard not to be impressed by a 2.5-second zero-to-62-mph claim that's likely on the conservative side, that only tells a small part of the story. Ferrari says the SF90 can haul itself from rest to 124 mph in just 6.7 seconds.


https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a32973472/2021-ferrari-sf90-stradale-drive/

[70 copo]

This story ran so under the radar I even missed it until just today...

My apologies!

https://www.thedrive.com/news/40237/lordstown-motors-endurance-race-truck-called-it-quits-after-40-miles-of-bajas-san-felipe-250

[rlw68]

Mileage Taxes Will Probably Punish EV Owners — And That's The Point


Maybe some hope for a classic car exception (JB is the original owner)

:burnout:

193903

[markinnaples]

I don't think Joe Biden is the man he once was at this point, and that's not coming back.

[70 copo]

qdVOTL3Suo0

Here is the inevitable "Rest of the story" Scratch 1 BILLION off GM's balance sheets... .


https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/bolt-recall/2021/08/20/id/1033217/

General Motors said on Friday it will recall about 73,000 Chevrolet Bolt electric vehicles at a cost of $1 billion to address fire risks and will seek reimbursement from its battery supplier, LG.

The largest U.S. automaker said the recall covers all remaining Bolt vehicles not previously recalled. GM said it will replace defective battery modules in Chevrolet Bolt EVs and EUVs with new modules. GM said it was pursuing commitments from LG for reimbursement of the recall.

GM said a previous Bolt recall would cost about $800 million. GM also said it has temporarily halted sales of current Bolt electric vehicles.

[AnthonyS]

GAH!

So, I'm following this closely - see post #15 earlier... (we've got one)...

[70 copo]

Anthony,

I know. For now I would not park it near your house or another structure.

[AnthonyS]

We’re not! And we don’t charge it (leave it plugged in) overnight either. Per GM’s recommendations… makes it difficult to get the charge up… gah.

[70 copo]

"Buckle to drive" is there on several models to further nag the driver this year, and next year the feature will be further expanded... but HEY this all looks like 1974 all over again.:biggthumpup:

As of now it is just the teens...

https://www.thedrive.com/news/42090/gm-buckle-to-drive-seatbelt-requirement-coming-to-2022-suvs-full-size-trucks

[70 copo]

GM will be telling Bolt owners who are concerned about parking in public places that it recommends keeping 50 feet from a parked Bolt to other cars in garages and lots, according to spokesman Dan Flores.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-09-15/gm-tells-some-bolt-owners-to-park-50-feet-away-from-other-cars

[AnthonyS]

^ wtf?!

[Lee Stewart]

Tesla's prototype battery with 5 times more energy storage comes to life at Panasonic

Tesla long promised big changes for its future batteries, and Panasonic hopes its latest prototype battery will deliver for the electric carmaker. On Monday, Automotive News reported on the Japanese company's new prototype battery created specifically for Tesla. It promises fives times more energy storage, which may increase ranges significantly.

In addition to more energy, the battery will cost 50% less to produce and help boost battery production at Panasonic "100-fold," by 2030, according to the report. These three elements could produce a game-changing battery pack for Tesla with a lower cost and more range at the core of EV adoption hurdles. Panasonic did not immediately return a request for comment and more information on the prototype battery. Tesla does not operate a public relations department to field requests for comment.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/tesla-s-prototype-battery-with-5-times-more-energy-storage-comes-to-life-at-panasonic/ar-AAPWd0t?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

[markinnaples]

Ever wonder how Tesla makes a lot of it's money? Here you go; from a stupid source, but don't lose the message because of the messenger:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CU2pwsmAmmp/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

[JoeC]

NHTSA is after Tesla

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/us-identifies-12th-tesla-assisted-systems-car-crash-involving-emergency-vehicle-2021-09-01/

[70 copo]

LOL.. EV's are COAL POWERED.... was a joke right? Not according to today's headlines.

Reality can hit hard.

https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/coal-returns-from-the-dead-to-power-the-world-as-renewables-fall-short-11635338557

[Lee Stewart]

Hertz Order for 100,000 EVs Sends Tesla Value to $1 Trillion

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-25/hertz-said-to-order-100-000-teslas-in-car-rental-market-shake-up

[jdv69z]

Just curious. What's a replacement battery cost?

[Lee Stewart]

Just curious. What's a replacement battery cost?

https://www.inverse.com/innovation/tesla-battery-life-replacement-cost

[70 copo]

Just curious. What's a replacement battery cost?


"In April 2019, Musk claimed replacing the battery modules — not the complete pack — of a Tesla Model 3 will cost between $5,000 and $7,000.

FindMyElectric found in April 2021 that Tesla battery replacements, including labor, tend to cost a bit more:

Between $13,000 to $20,000 for a Model S premium sedan
At least $14,000 for a Model X premium SUV
At least $13,000 for the Model 3 entry-level sedan
A similar price for the Model Y compact SUV, but as the car only launched in 2020 it’s too new to say for sure"

[JoeC]

Electric-truck maker Rivian

Shares of Rivian Automotive Inc (RIVN.O) surged as much as 53% in its Nasdaq debut on Wednesday, giving the Amazon-backed electric vehicle maker a market valuation of more than $100 billion after the world's biggest initial public offering this year.

That made Rivian the second most valuable U.S. automaker after Tesla Inc (TSLA.O), which is worth $1.06 trillion. Despite just having started selling vehicles and having little revenue to report, Rivian ranked ahead of General Motors Co (GM.N) at $86.05 billion, Ford Motor Co (F.N) at $77.37 billion, and Lucid Group (LCID.O) at $65.96 billion.

[70 copo]

Electric-truck maker Rivian

Shares of Rivian Automotive Inc (RIVN.O) surged as much as 53% in its Nasdaq debut on Wednesday, giving the Amazon-backed electric vehicle maker a market valuation of more than $100 billion after the world's biggest initial public offering this year.

That made Rivian the second most valuable U.S. automaker after Tesla Inc (TSLA.O), which is worth $1.06 trillion. Despite just having started selling vehicles and having little revenue to report, Rivian ranked ahead of General Motors Co (GM.N) at $86.05 billion, Ford Motor Co (F.N) at $77.37 billion, and Lucid Group (LCID.O) at $65.96 billion.


"Despite just having started selling vehicles and having little revenue to report"

Reminds me of the current stock market valuation and Crypto. Everything is a bubble right now.

Backed by Bezos however....

[Lee Stewart]

Six Major Automakers Agree to End Gas Car Sales Globally by 2040

Ford, GM, Mercedes-Benz, and others, along with 30 nations, signed a pledge to eliminate sales of new gas and diesel-powered cars by 2035 in “leading markets.”

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a38213848/automakers-pledge-end-gas-sales-2040/#:~:text=Volvo-,Six%20Major%20Automakers%20Agree%20to%20End%20Gas %20Car%20Sales%20Globally,2035%20in%20%E2%80%9Clea ding%20markets.%E2%80%9D

[Charley Lillard]

Electric-truck maker Rivian

Shares of Rivian Automotive Inc (RIVN.O) surged as much as 53% in its Nasdaq debut on Wednesday, giving the Amazon-backed electric vehicle maker a market valuation of more than $100 billion after the world's biggest initial public offering this year.

That made Rivian the second most valuable U.S. automaker after Tesla Inc (TSLA.O), which is worth $1.06 trillion. Despite just having started selling vehicles and having little revenue to report, Rivian ranked ahead of General Motors Co (GM.N) at $86.05 billion, Ford Motor Co (F.N) at $77.37 billion, and Lucid Group (LCID.O) at $65.96 billion.




I ordered a Rivian truck months ago and test drove one Wednesday. Nice truck built in Illinois. Because I ordered one I was offered to buy up to 175 shares of their stock before it went public. Bought 175 shares for 13,650.00. As of today it's worth 21,523.00. I think a big reason for the confidence in the stock is the fact that Amazon is heavily invested in them plus they ordered 100,000 electric delivery vehicles from them.

[Charley Lillard]

…….

[Crush]

I ordered a Rivian truck months ago and test drove one Wednesday. Nice truck built in Illinois. Because I ordered one I was offered to buy up to 175 shares of their stock before it went public. Bought 175 shares for 13,650.00. As of today it's worth 21,523.00. I think a big reason for the confidence in the stock is the fact that Amazon is heavily invested in them plus they ordered 100,000 electric delivery vehicles from them.

Ford is also an owner, although they may sell their position (8b) to fund their battery plant. They are a direct competitor.
Looks like a cool truck

[Tenney]

Ford is also an owner, although they may sell their position (8b) to fund their battery plant. They are a direct competitor.
Looks like a cool truck

Or, if successful, acquire the brand ...?

[Lee Stewart]

Or, if successful, acquire the brand ...?

Rivian is too big for Ford to acquire. Now at $138B Market Cap (net worth). Ford has a Market Cap of $78B

[70 copo]

History is instructive: In economics we studied the "Dutch Tulip Bulb Market Bubble" and its associated mania.

Lets all believe that Rivian,- with one single factory in one location, with a yet unproven product that just started selling vehicles is worth more then the entire valuation of Ford?

Exactly what we were told in school to keep a sharp eye out for... but I need to wonder perhaps to have a market cap today you do not have to have a tangible asset inventory or an established market segment?

If not then that gentlemen is the very definition of a "rigged game" where the whales select a technology and a company and bets on it simply because the political class and the FED shapes the market artificially through "green spending" and in the case of Rivian - Amazon promises of future purchases.

HINT-HINT... the US ARMY is reportedly looking at the NEW GM HUMMER EV for a big buy to replace the existing HUMVEE.

[Lee Stewart]

History is instructive: In economics we studied the "Dutch Tulip Bulb Market Bubble" and its associated mania.

Lets all believe that Rivian,- with one single factory in one location, with a yet unproven product that just started selling vehicles is worth more then the entire valuation of Ford?

Exactly what we were told in school to keep a sharp eye out for... but I need to wonder perhaps to have a market cap today you do not have to have a tangible asset inventory or an established market segment?

If not then that gentlemen is the very definition of a "rigged game" where the whales select a technology and a company and bets on it simply because the political class and the FED shapes the market artificially through "green spending" and in the case of Rivian - Amazon promises of future purchases.

HINT-HINT... the US ARMY is reportedly looking at the NEW GM HUMMER EV for a big buy to replace the existing HUMVEE.

You need to understand stock prices and market caps. They are more focused on the future than the present. That's how an EV Truck startup like Rivian has a bigger Market Cap than Ford. Rivian is doing something that Ford wants to do, has to do and will cost them tens of billions of dollars to accomplish.

[olredalert]

----I really wonder how well an electric Hummer will work out in the field. Just carry a gas powered generator around with them?.....Bill S

[Crush]

History is instructive: In economics we studied the "Dutch Tulip Bulb Market Bubble" and its associated mania.

Lets all believe that Rivian,- with one single factory in one location, with a yet unproven product that just started selling vehicles is worth more then the entire valuation of Ford?

Exactly what we were told in school to keep a sharp eye out for... but I need to wonder perhaps to have a market cap today you do not have to have a tangible asset inventory or an established market segment?

If not then that gentlemen is the very definition of a "rigged game" where the whales select a technology and a company and bets on it simply because the political class and the FED shapes the market artificially through "green spending" and in the case of Rivian - Amazon promises of future purchases.

HINT-HINT... the US ARMY is reportedly looking at the NEW GM HUMMER EV for a big buy to replace the existing HUMVEE.

Tesla market cap has been disjointed since inception. At 1T it is bigger then the next 6 auto companies combined but produces less units! Valuation has changed For sure. I think part of what drives the Rivian stock early on is FOMO, Myself included. I have owned Tesla and sold it several times over the years and every time I sell it I tell myself I should’ve held onto it.

[Lee Stewart]

----I really wonder how well an electric Hummer will work out in the field. Just carry a gas powered generator around with them?.....Bill S

https://i.postimg.cc/0Q7S7C4R/0.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[70 copo]

You guys read Market insider?

The market is responding in a strange way to this IPO.

Good opinion here which I agree with:

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/big-short-michael-burry-warning-speculation-bubble-rivian-ipo-inflation-2021-11?op=1

[markinnaples]

I ordered a Rivian truck months ago and test drove one Wednesday. Nice truck built in Illinois. Because I ordered one I was offered to buy up to 175 shares of their stock before it went public. Bought 175 shares for 13,650.00. As of today it's worth 21,523.00. I think a big reason for the confidence in the stock is the fact that Amazon is heavily invested in them plus they ordered 100,000 electric delivery vehicles from them.

Have you gotten your truck yet Charley? Any idea when it will be in if not?
Watched a review of one earlier this week and then the guy took it out off roading and it did pretty well (Doug DeMuro on Youtube).

[Charley Lillard]

They emailed me and I think it said between May-June.

[mssl72]

I saw a white Rivian pickup on my way home 2 nights ago. The first thing I saw was the headlights. It stuck out since the headlights are so different. I didn't recognize what it was until I passed it and got a better look.

[AnthonyS]

^ cool. I’ve been looking but haven’t seen one yet myself.

[markinnaples]

Wow, a little rational thought about the swap to EV's:

https://www.foxnews.com/auto/ford-ceo-says-customers-arent-ready-electric-cars

[Lee Stewart]

Wow, a little rational thought about the swap to EV's:

https://www.foxnews.com/auto/ford-ceo-says-customers-arent-ready-electric-cars

Bad link. I think the story was taken down - These Customers Are Not Ready For Electric Cars

[70 copo]

Good Link:

https://www.foxnews.com/auto/ford-ceo-farley-says-these-customers-arent-ready-for-electric-cars

[70 copo]

Behind the scenes you need to get to know the ESG score.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-05/gm-is-the-old-industrial-worth-owning-for-some-esg-investors

[70 copo]

Toyota outsold GM in 2021, marking the first time since 1931 that the Detroit automaker wasn’t the best-selling car company in the U.S.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/04/toyota-dethrones-gm-to-become-americas-top-selling-automaker-in-2021.html

[AnthonyS]

^ gah.

[luzl78]

We are experiencing history in front of our eyes. The world is changing.

[70 copo]

Note to Mary Barra: Why not let me borrow this truck for a test where we put a classed hitch and receiver on it along with my loaded enclosed car trailer and lets go for a regular drive through Pennsylvania up and down the mountains.

That would be fun I am sure:biggthumpup:

Sg3dkFK7LTA

[markinnaples]

Been saying this for a couple years now:

https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/car-companies-electric-vehicles-infrastructure-demands

[70 copo]

Posting this here with the assumption that GM IS actively monitoring this thread:

https://www.ericpetersautos.com/2022/01/07/the-lessons-of-i-95/

[JoeC]

Airstream Unveiled a Game-Changing Camping Trailer Concept

electric camping trailer of the future with its battery-electric powertrain.

https://www.gearpatrol.com/cars/a38829515/airstream-estream-electric-camping-trailer/

[Pro Stock John]

I didn't read all the comments, but power grid constraints vary by region. In fact in some regions there is an abundance of power, more than the demand.

West coast and parts of the East though have power constraints, lots of factors there.

EV market penetration is rising strongly but still like around 7% of total car and light truck sales.

A friend who works for VW said that he think the power train offering will be a mix going forward, hybrids make more sense for many folks without garage charging, ie. street parkers and renters.

I don't see me making the swap to a EV anytime soon, maybe in a few years we might have one after we move out of Chicago.

[70 copo]

Here is the number (score) that drives the change to EV within gM

Environment, Social and Governance (ESG) Risk Rating

Today's score for gM is at 54.65

Yes, it is completely connected to the implementation of UN agenda 2030.

[Pro Stock John]

GM has to balance a few things, profitability, growth, ESG, and changes in safety/emissions/fuel economy.

GM does not a good job of carving out niches and staying in them, and wastes time with stuff like the new Hummer.

If you look at the success of Honda, they have focused on specific offerings that they keep refining and making better. I would bet the average 27 year old looking for a nice car will look at an Accord or a Civic 4 door before they test drive a Malibu or a Cruze. Malibus look good and should be marketed more. The Cruze looks and feels cheap.

[70 copo]

I have to admit that I have struggled mightily with what has happened to GM (now gM)

Seemingly not caring at all about the legacy core buyer of the product.

Literally the entire reinvention of a company where no real current market, or infrastructure currently exists. Further Congress just failed to pass the legislation that would have enabled gM to have a fighting chance... .

Many, Many points to consider. GM selling off its old business model making decisions that do not make any real sense to any free market person.

But it is not about the free market at all. Mary Barra appears to have a "golden stake" just above her head if she does not reinvent GM.

11 years ago we were warned by the conspiracy theorists if GM took the bail out that GM would be forced to build products that nobody wanted to buy.

The video at the link lays it all bare for all to see.

Caution: IF you do not like Glenn Beck or his opinions do not click.

If you want to make a political statement please do not reply to this thread.

If you are simply open minded please watch. Again PLEASE do not make this ideological or political, but BECK in this one video just nicely confirmed what has been coming from inside GM concerning the radical direction the company is literally being forced to take over the past 4 years - so I feel this hits the nail on the head.

Mary I am truly sorry for what you are having to manage your way through.

Presented as information on what ESG really is:

https://www.facebook.com/GlennBeck/videos/esg-scores-explained-this-is-why-companies-are-going-woke/1300837813744733

[markinnaples]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/electric-vehicles-hit-a-pivot-point-as-battery-prices-fall-and-governments-get-behind-the-new-technology/ar-AATZvAq?ocid=msedgntp

As with anything from the media today, you can take it with as much as you feel you can trust that news source.

[70 copo]

From the article "Governments Get behind" (EV's)

Let me translate that for you. We are at step two: Government's prepare to mandate you to buy and drive an EV.

Step one was incentives to purchase.

Step three will be a total ban on the operation of ICE.

Remember its all part of UN agenda 2030. Its part of the plan.

[70 copo]

A sobering assessment:


7oCZ8XYFSjk

[70 copo]

The really smart car companies are working on this..... .

Hey Mary, listen up- NEVER put all your marbles in one basket...

"We are working toward achieving carbon neutrality by 2050," Yamaha Motor president Yoshihiro Hidaka said. "At the same time, ‘Motor’ is in our company name and we accordingly have a strong passion for and level of commitment to the internal combustion engine."

https://www.foxnews.com/auto/toyota-yamaha-hydrogen-burning-v8-engine

[70 copo]

FORD has thought this through....

"Ford will split its electric vehicle and internal combustion operations into two individual businesses to accelerate its adaptation of new technology and the Detroit automaker said Wednesday that its transformation into an EV company is accelerating.

Ford plans a major restructuring with two distinct but strategically interdependent auto businesses – Ford Blue focusing on traditional combustion engines and Ford Model e, which will develop electric vehicles."

https://apnews.com/article/ford-ev-combustion-divisions-91475bfe4c78ca70904c7ff9bb1e3d8e

[markinnaples]

In my opinion, finally someone takes a moderate stance on the future.
https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a39752001/bmw-says-electric-only-strategy-is-dangerous/?source=nl

Automakers have been constantly one-upping each other recently, trying to convince the public that they alone are the most serious about EVs. But BMW CEO Oliver Zipse seems to think that is going too far. In a roundtable interview reported by Reuters, Zipse cautioned that automakers shouldn't get too reliant on all-electric strategies that only work in select markets.

"When you look at the technology coming out, the EV push, we must be careful because at the same time, you increase dependency on very few countries," Zipse told reporters, according to Reuters. EVs are primarily popular in highly developed markets like China and Europe and also depend on raw materials that flow mostly through China. And as the pandemic and current trade sanctions on Russia show, depending too much on any one set of market conditions or single chain in a supply line can be dangerous.

[67since67]

In my opinion, finally someone takes a moderate stance on the future.
https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a39752001/bmw-says-electric-only-strategy-is-dangerous/?source=nl

While my DD was at the dealership last week getting scheduled service, it was related to me that the Audi dealership in Omaha sent a customer from Western Nebraska out the door in a new E-Tron, with instructions on where to get it charged. When he got there the charging station was "Out of order":eek2:. They sent a roll-back out to retrieve him back to Omaha for plan "B". :rolleyes2:

Also, when the boat went down, they only lost one A4. - Bill W

[CamaroNOS]

In my opinion, finally someone takes a moderate stance on the future.
https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a39752001/bmw-says-electric-only-strategy-is-dangerous/?source=nl

Great article.....thanks Mark.

I find it sad and enlightening that a European CEO (remember the EU countries are always leading the Green charge) has to remind us here in North America about this scary immediate push to covert to EV. There are so many obstacles that will need to be addressed such as our inadequate power production capacity and the grid. Any idea how long this will take to improve?

Not to be a smart ass, but when you decide to build a new road somewhere and it's the first day of the construction process, do you first have the tractor trailers show up with asphalt? Nope........a pile of prep work needs to be done first before you start spreading the asphalt, right?

70copo - And the Glenn Beck and the ESG information video really worry me. Especially when I am a fat guy who loves my freedom and cherishes the ability to eat a Big Mac whenever I want. Thank you for the link.

Lord help us.

[70 copo]

You are welcome. It has taken us literally years to get to this point with this thread but finally we are at the nub of it. A global currency reset and a social credit score for every company and every person. (ESG)

All of the woke nonsense we are seeing - including the latest from Disney (for example) all is based upon getting a favorable ESG score top to bottom.

ESG is what will be used to ultimately remove private property rights and there is an incredible amount of protest and pushback happening in Europe that's not being covered by the corporate's controlled media and that's intentional.

The Europeans being way ahead of the US in the process-are feeling the effects and seeing the writing on the wall so the good people like the BMW CEO are finally beginning to speak up.

Welcome to The World Economic Forum's Great Reset/Agenda 2030 plan.

There is a reason we left Afghanistan and left an intact airbase and billions of dollars of weapons' there because Afghanistan is estimated to have an estimated 1-2 Trillion + in unmined Lithium reserves so, the US moved out and China is moving in. China is going to mine it. Lithium mining is an environmental disaster, so the CCP will operate the mines.

Once you see and realize what is afoot globally and you read what the WEF has stated in writing (is coming for all of us) you literally cannot "unsee" it.

WHY you ask? Because to accomplish the planned currency reset you have to quit drilling for oil world wide, make it scarce and expensive - thereby and demonetizing the value of the current Petro based world wide currencies.

Then you simultaneously create an artificial demand for EV's mainly through regulation and rulemaking with the intent of finally establishing a a new world reserve currency based upon the NEW "Lithium" based World reserve currency - the Chinese YUAN.

So most of the the daily media distractions are all designed to keep everyone off balance while all of this is going on. We are waking up however. :grin:

I think that's quite enough chemotherapy for this morning.

[Lee Stewart]

The Chevrolet Corvette is officially going electric

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/other/the-chevrolet-corvette-is-officially-going-electric/ar-AAWzNi8?pc=U531&cvid=2ee4c703a4fa497d800852373d4e1dc9

[jwbavalon]

Hopefully this isn't the future:
"GM Stops Offering Battery Replacement For Chevy Spark EV.
This could mean they will quickly start to disappear from the road once their original batteries are no longer usable. GM is reportedly no longer offering new packs for the electric Spark - it doesn’t have any and won’t be manufacturing them any more."

[olredalert]

Hopefully this isn't the future:
"GM Stops Offering Battery Replacement For Chevy Spark EV.
This could mean they will quickly start to disappear from the road once their original batteries are no longer usable. GM is reportedly no longer offering new packs for the electric Spark - it doesn’t have any and won’t be manufacturing them any more."

----What company in their right mind would follow this path. I'm sorry, this is crazy. Just walk away from good customers, the back bone of your business? I'm sorry, I don't understand this kind of doing business!.....Bill S

[70 copo]

Hopefully this isn't the future:
"GM Stops Offering Battery Replacement For Chevy Spark EV.
This could mean they will quickly start to disappear from the road once their original batteries are no longer usable. GM is reportedly no longer offering new packs for the electric Spark - it doesn’t have any and won’t be manufacturing them any more."

Well at least they are not going to collect them and crush them like they did with EV-1.

The Death of GM EV-1 program in 2003 created such rage among the enthusiasts that owned the cars it caused two guys to sell an E book company to fund a start up called T E S L A and the rest as we say is "history".

One thing that GM has not changed. There has been historically NO shortage of dumb decision making at GM/gM. Without a doubt the OLD GM changed the world and indirectly gave birth to its current nemesis by abandoning the EV-1.

On balance the company remains out of touch with its core buying segment, and to survive It has to not only convert its loyal buyers to accept a product that they do not currently want, but also take market share from TESLA while doing it.

That's going to be quite a hat trick to pull off. Best of luck with that.

https://medium.com/pushtostart/the-fascinating-history-of-tesla-and-the-general-motors-ev1-f00e4af62f78

[67since67]

----What company in their right mind would follow this path. I'm sorry, this is crazy. Just walk away from good customers, the back bone of your business? I'm sorry, I don't understand this kind of doing business!.....Bill S

Isn't there a federal requirement to supply parts for ten years from manufacture?? :confused2:

[70 copo]

----What company in their right mind would follow this path. I'm sorry, this is crazy. Just walk away from good customers, the back bone of your business? I'm sorry, I don't understand this kind of doing business!.....Bill S


gM is apperently all in on the enshrinement of:

ESG

Individual Social Credit scores

and a global Lithium based digital currency reset.

View gM's actions through this lens- and it makes perfect sense.


As a matter of fact IF my income was derived from doing business with ESG leaning institutions the purchase of one or two electric cars would go along way to boosting the "environment" rating of my ESG score- thus keeping me safe and sound for that portion of my personal credit score.

[markinnaples]

Isn't there a federal requirement to supply parts for ten years from manufacture?? :confused2:

Yes, there is. I'm not familiar with the exact specifics, but this is accurate.

Also, I'm on a contract for consulting with one of the Federal Home Loan Banks, and let me tell you, they are taking these ESG (Environmental, Social, and Governance) Scores very seriously, and from the Board down. These have the potential to reshape how business operates and credits is extended to individuals and businesses, and not in a good way. If your ESG score does not meet the requirements of some unknown entity, you may not get that loan. It's a really scary scenario potentially.

[markinnaples]

Finally, someone with a little sense. Maybe we need to hold off for now on going full-bore on EVs when most electrical grids across the nation can barely handle the existing homes on it now. Maybe Hybrids for a while, and a little more experimentation with Hydrogen and other possible alternatives?

Lamborghini CEO on Going All Electric: ‘We Don’t Need to Decide Now’

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/lamborghini-ceo-on-going-all-electric-we-don-t-need-to-decide-now/ar-AA10eAIq?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=1a9b147170364c52bcc64b894bfc6bc3

[Lee Stewart]

Isn't there a federal requirement to supply parts for ten years from manufacture?? :confused2:

It's not 10 years. It's the length of the warranty.

vehicle manufacturers must be able to provide parts during the term of a warranty (if any) made at the time of sale. They need not make or stock these parts themselves.

Vehicle makers could choose not to do so, but then they would be required to provide a replacement vehicle or a full refund of the vehicle cost. In practice it is usually more cost effective for makers to procure replacement parts to effect a warranty repair.

A further consequence is therefore that replacement parts are also available to people who do not have a warranty claim.

[markinnaples]

UGH:

Chevy Corvette Electric Sedan Coming 2025, Corvette SUV To Follow: Report

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/chevy-corvette-electric-sedan-coming-2025-corvette-suv-to-follow-report/ar-AA10fxkt?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=16b4c09d76ed4e2b9beee91e5d1805df

[70 copo]

GM looks to be utterly and completely disconnected from what made the company great in the first place. first they tried to badge engineer the Camaro name onto the Blazer platform back in 2019 now this...

[JoeC]

this was kinda shocking

the Rivian R1T ran a 11.9 ET at 109.9 mph

beating last years quickest truck

Ram 1500 TRX 12.7 ET 106.5 mph

[Crush]

GM looks to be utterly and completely disconnected from what made the company great in the first place. first they tried to badge engineer the Camaro name onto the Blazer platform back in 2019 now this...

Has elements of a Porsche Cayenne

[70 copo]

Has elements of a Porsche Cayenne

Exactly. More of a "Global" approach.

[Charley Lillard]

Gave someone a thrill ride in my Lucid today. He said "Oh my God" If you ride in or drive one it will change your thinking.

[Lee Stewart]

Gave someone a thrill ride in my Lucid today. He said "Oh my God" If you ride in or drive one it will change your thinking.

It doesn't go VROOM VROOM. That's a no sale for most of the people here. :hmmm: