1966 Yenko Stinger for sale

[Belair62]

Steve,my response was not directed to you but the discussion in general. The offer on my COPO Chevelle was a fine offer but you are correct.Its not the money.How would you replace any one of these cars.I don't think I will have trouble getting my money out of it when I do decide to sell . Just thought we should bottom line the thread and move on. I don't see any consensus on it and most will probably always feel a Yenko is from Yenko.We can all choose what we want to believe.Whether any of the evidence suggested reflects in the values, the market will have to decide. I don't own an asterisk car so it won't affect me personally. I hope they all go up to 500k next week.

[mahoy78spyder]

Ok, I just want you all to know I will be sleeping in the dog house tonight because my wife just called and asked, "Why aren't you home yet... you said you were leaving over an hour ago!" /ubbthreads/images/icons/mad.gif ... I couldn't tell her I was reading this series of posts.... and yes, for whoever asked about 5 pages ago, "You mean someone's actually reading this?!"... I "have" been reading this great discussion... every page... every word.
Goodnight everyone.... I hear it's going to be cold out tonight. /ubbthreads/images/icons/frown.gif

Brrrrrr....
Ken

[Charley Lillard]

Belair...Yours IS the Asterisk car...............

[bkhpah]

It was meant to be a joke 69rsss350. Sorry to offend you...BKH

[69rsss350]

Brian, I took no offense, I just think peoples names should not be made fun of. It is kinda personal, know what I mean? /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif

[Kurt S]

Marlin says:
I feel that the source of the car is exactly what defines a Yenko. Maybe that statement is what summarizes this whole discussion. I feel the source defines a Yenko, do you feel that the marketing package defines a Yenko?

Marlin,
I'm missing something. So a Nickey ordered and sold elsewhere is still a Nickey, a Harrel ordered and sold elsewhere is still a Harrel, but that's not true for a Yenko.
Yenko was marketing an image and a package. If you walked into Douglass in 69, you'd see a double COPO complete with all the Yenko decals. Sure would look like a Yenko to me, esp since that's what they were selling. People at all the Yenko distributors didn't ask where the car was originally shipped to. They asked 'That a 427? Cool!'

Interesting story about Berger and Douglass. Wow, talk about reaching.


I'm altruistic (at least relative to this topic), but I am really starting to realize this is about $$. /ubbthreads/images/icons/frown.gif
At least I changed the title of the topic.....

[Stefano]

Belair,
You are an Asterisk. I just thought that you meant the thread was only about $$$$.00 which it is not, at least not to me. The auction on the other hand is mostly about the $$$$.00. Its alot of fun too, usually. I just hope that Mr. Gasser has a bigger suit case than he brought for the last Douglass COPO*Yenko Which ran across the block.

I thought that this was over months ago, but it isn't there are still some underlying issues which need to get hashed out as they will most certainly come up again. I am not the trying to manipulate history or rewrite it to my satisfaction, just acknowledge that which took place.

I have many people who share Yenko/Super Car Stories with me about the cars which were lined up in front of Douglass Chevy and eventually street raced down North Ave. Not one person has ever made mention to me that they were anything but Yenkos nor asked who the MSO was made out to.

Here in Chicago and the Suburbs most people only know that they were Yenkos as that is the way they were advertised and anyone in the Know who was in the market either went to Nickey, Nickey ,Nickey Chevrolet, Ordered a Baldwin Motion, Built it themselves or Drove it off the lot from Douglass Chevrolet.

Heck there are still some who won't even acknowledge that there are a whole bunch of unfound Gibb Sold Super Cars converted by Dick Harrell.

The mighty sYc Dealer network which maintained many, many dealers sold 198 Yenko Super Camaros in 1969. Jacks accomplishments with his direct order as well as his portion of the 198 are paramount to Yenko History here in Chicago as well as anywhere in the country.

[JoeC]

It is not about money to me. It is about maintaining an accurate history of the Yenko cars. This is why the Mecum ad bothers me. It advertises a white Yenko Camaro as a "true Yenko" but it is well documented that Yenko choose to build his 1969 Yenko Camaros in only 6 colors and white was not one of them. It should be clearly stated that this car was ordered by Douglas and striped by Douglas and was not done by the normal Yenko process. Mecum should not call it a "true Yenko" because that description does not inform the reader of the controversy that this car is not on the Yenko vin list. It is up to the individual to decide if they consider it the same as the other Yenkos. Some people do not consider it a "true Yenko" and some do, and the ad should reflect this. The ad is misleading and corrupts Yenko history.

[bkhpah]

The difference in these cars is clear. A Harrell car was converted by Harrell and his crew regardless of were the car was sold. Most of the time Bill Allen was the supplier. Allen did not do the conversion. The Nickey/Thomas connection is advertised as such. No mystery there. Berger did their thing etc, etc. If Douglass skipped the very first rule of getting the cars from Yenko Sports Cars, clearly this is not a Yenko. It does not matter that the cars are 9561/9737 cars to me. Douglass was not in my opinion the clear manifacture of these cars like Harrell or Bill Thomas. I have one 9737 COPO from Prout that I am doing now along with Shor's Douglass. The Prout is not a Yenko, but it seems there would be an argument from the Prout owners that since their cars are 9737 cars it could be a Yenko. Douglass bypassed the system and later seemed he could not sell the cars without the stripes. The Douglass cars are very unique and desirable to many, I just cannot accept any Yenko connection. This whole argument would not even exsist it Yenko was to be the sole distributor of the cars. He and Gibb got the ball rolling with Chevrolet by laying down the groundwork for special hi-performance chevrolets starting many years before the Camaro's came along. Yenko was the inovator for these cars. Every COPO owes him that...BKH

[mr gasser]

Looking at all of these posts I will be bringing a lot smaller suit case..... /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[Belair62]

Steve.....I have been called worse /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif Now go out in the yard and smoke one of those cheap Dominican cigars ! Clill.....I don't mind Stephano calling me an asterisk but if you call my car an asterisk ...dems fightin' words!!! /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[Stefano]

Brian,
Prout was not a Yenko Dealer and Prout never sold their cars to the public as such. The only tie between Yenko and Prout which I am aware of is that Don laid the ground work for the 9561 and 9737 Copo options. The 9737 Prout cars I have seen did not have the D80 spoiler options which all 1969 Yenko Camaros that I have seen carry. The prout cars are also very cool Super Car COPOs.

Where do you get your info., which says that Douglass striped the cars after he couldn't sell them? This was not the case,and the opposite is true. How rediculous is it, to try and infer that Jack could not have sold a 427 Double COPO at a Huge (approx 12%) discount to the Canonsberg Yenkos sitting next to them, especially all the extra colors and options his cars had available. Do you remember the Douglass news paper advertisements stating Yenko Super Camaros in Stock now, <font color="red"> all colors to choose</font color>.

Certainly it would take time to get 22-25 Camaros and 10 Chevelles striped and ready for sale. A reasonable person could conclude that that they were not striped while on the transporter.

Don and Jack had their conversation prior to his Direct order ever hitting the ground. Even Don let the cars sit in the radio active lot pior to having the stripes and Badges installed.

Did Don ever sell a 1969 sYc without the stripe option?

When Don sold a sYc Direct to the public was this on a Yenko Sports Cars, Inc. or Yenko Chevrolet ,Inc. bill of sale? (FMI)

Mr Gasser,
Ok smaller will do /ubbthreads/images/icons/frown.gif , see ya there. You bring the cigars this time.

I don't think there is any question as to your opinion that the Yenko name should not be associaited with the Douglass Direct ordered cars, but you have yet to come out and say it. We will certainly maintain our own seperate opinions.

The relationship has been noted, and the sYc nomenclature of <font color="red">'Douglass COPO*Yenko'</font color> will suffice IMO,on this site or future sYc events to identify and distinguish these 22 Super Camaros for what they are. I too want everyone to know exactly what they are looking at.

[Steve Shauger]

I believe Brian was referring to the information shor had gotten directly from Jack Douglass... at least that is how I read the post shor made on page 2 of this thread. Stefano, at times it seem as though you were there.


shor posted:
Jack had a little problem selling this last batch when they arrived. The problem was Jack had been advertising these Yenko cars heavily but it was a tough sale without the stripes. Jack has sold alot of Cannonsburg Yenkos to date and when people came in they said"wheres the stripes? where's the Yenko invoice?

On top of this Don was threatining to sue. They, after a very heated telephone discussion (verified by Don's seceratary, she remenbers because Don said he was going to personally fly out to Chicago and kick Jack's a**)they came to an agreement. Jack would pay Don 400 per car and Don would send him the stripe kits, window stickers, emblems etc.

Was I there? No. Is this true? I think so. Jack is still alive and has corraberated this sequence of events verbatim. Does this make these last batch of yenkos any less of a Yenko than thier Cannonsburg cousins? I can not say with absolute certainty. Time and preference will tell.

[sYc]

"It should be pointed out that Yenko Sportscars did not have any type of exclusive COPO and that many other dealers have purchased cars similar to the cars purchased by Yenko Sportscars. One Yenko dealer, however (Jack Douglas in Hinsdale, Illinois), after making a direct factory purchase of 22 vehicles identical to those sold him previously by Yenko Sportscars, found it advantageous to purchase YENKO emblems and trim to enhance retailing the merchandise."

Stefano; The above quote is taken from the papers of the late Don Yenko. Accoding to this, Jack needed Yenko (SYC) and his stripes/emblems to sell his cars. It appears that this occured late in the model year, when even Yenko Chevrolet was having trouble moving the cars, do to extremely high insurance rates, if insurable at all. This would also explain why Don was not happy with Jack. Don wanted Jack to help him move the remaining Canonsburg cars before the market for BB cars completely dried up. Tom

[Stefano]

Tom,
We are going to have to agree to disagree on this as well.

Jack received his direct order shipment in late May of 1969.

The statement in Don's own hand (per your info.) was written September of 1969. You are reading between the lines IMO. It does not say he ordered them, they hit the grounds, they couldn't sell,(very unlikely and improbable) then Jack later bought stripes and sold them as Yenkos, Don got mad. Read it sentence by sentence and you will see that I have no argument with that which it says.

You seem to be trying to make the statement fit your preconceived notion of what should have taken place. This document surfaced long after Jacks original story and suports it no less than 88% that is 22/25.

Shor's statement which was referenced in the prior thread iS neither true nor accurate(no disrespect shor, but your statements are being quoted out of context) and he referenced such in a thread soon after.

No, I was not there and have stated so from the Begining. But I have questioned/spoken to Jack and many other people involved over the years and his Story has never Changed.

Tom ,I will submit to you, that if what you infer actually took place contrary to Jack's notarized statements it wouldn't change the fact that the event indeed took place and should be recognized.

Any more info on the other sYc dealers who sold Super camaros , Novas and Chevelles,in Chicago from Jan 1969 to December 1969. We need to put that to rest one way or another, don't you think? /ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif

[sYc]

Stefano; slow down and think about what you are saying. To me it does say that he ordered them, they hit the ground and they would not sell! Both Don Yenko and Donna Mae Mims have been quoted as saying that the cars became very hard to sale, due to the high cost of insurance. Much like was done on some the ZL-1s, Yenko even considered replacing the 427 with a less expensvie engine. Jim Mattison told me that the original order agreed to between Frank &amp; Don Yenko and Chevrolet was for 500 COPOS. But, because of sluggish sales, Chevrolet allowed Yenko to reduce the order. To Jim's knowledge, this was the only time that this was allowed. (Gibb's situation with the ZL-1s was handled a little different). Are you quoting Jack as saying that the cars were hot sellers through out the entire model year? If so, we will need to rewrite the history books, because the accepted fact has been that these cars were next to impossible to sell by the end of the 1969 model year. Tom

[copolocater]

You can listen to ,read ,perceive,understand, be baffled,confused,happy,irate anything else on the planet.Tom has stated as the creator,owner,curator of this site that he recognizes these cars as Douglass*Copo Yenkos.I thought that was what this was all about.You can agree to dissagree on everything else.But when a phonecall or an email is sent to Tom on this subject make no mistake I'm sure he will stand by what he has posted. Douglass*Copo Yenkos

[Steve Shauger]

We agree Jack initially ordered the car without Don's knowlege, his INTENT was to sell them as just double copos not Yenkos. Reading from all the posts, not just yours Jack had two problems; Don found out and he had difficulty selling them as just a copo. His solution both forced by Don and the market was to stripe them as a Yenko.

Jack ordered the cars without an agreement with Don,and outside the super car network. In addition they did not originate from Canonsburg. They are unique, but distinctly different from the original 198/99 Don ordered.

[Stefano]

Tom,
I agree and Jack also informed me that he was glad that he didn't have anymore orders comming in as the insurance Companies had literally blacked balled the cars here in Chicago where many were sold and the headquarters for some of the largest auto insurers were maintained. We are in agreement as to the effect auto insurance, or the lack of had on all 427 equipped vehicles.

I take the estate document for what is says and could read into it either way but it would not change the ultimate facts which have been thoroughly discussed here on the site.

I read every sentence/phrase and answer true, to the best of my knowledge and information.

Tom,
Here is Jack's phone number xxx-xxx-xxxx. If you want to here it from him direct then call him. He was there you and I were not and this way I can stop quoting him.

Those who have both inspected more than one Douglass COPO*Yenko car and spoken to him about the sequence of events have a different opinion than you on the subject.

[Charley Lillard]

Maybe in the spirit of compromise...If the Douglass car was sold new with Yenko Stripes and emblems it could now be striped as a "Dougko". And if you did it just right, most People wouldn't even notice.

[moparts]

you sure with all thats went on about it that it wouldn't be a Yanka$$?????? /ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/frown.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/blush.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/cool.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/mad.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/smirk.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif

[Mr70]

CharleyI prefer the term,Yenklass. No disrespect intended.

[Belair62]

And I thought Charlie was changing the oil on his water truck all this time.....

[ssl78]

Any one care to guess who this is, and what car it is.

[69rsss350]

That is a cool looking Fiero in the background, too bad that asterisk car is in the way, and that chubby guy. /ubbthreads/images/icons/laugh.gif

[hvychev]

Yeah, thats him alright, but where is his trademark cigar????? /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[Stefano]

Certificate of Authenticity

This Certificate will serve to verify the subject vehicle as a genuine, Jack Douglass Chevrolet sold, Yenko Camaro.

As owner of Jack Douglass Chevrolet in Hinsdale, IL. I was personally involved in the ordering, and sale of, all high performance Yenko equipped cars. As the authorized agent for all Yenko Sportscars in Chicagoland, I discovered that these COPO 427 equiped cars could be ordered directly from Chevrolet. From that point on, I ordered approximately twenty five COPO Camaros direct,and,with Don Yenko's authorization and approval, installed official stripe and emblem packages provided by Yenko.

These Yenko Modifications were applied immediately upon arrival of the cars at my dealership. Pursuant to my agreement with Don Yenko, these cars were sold to our customers as genuine Yenko Camaros.

I have inspected the subject car, and,based on its date of delivery to my dealership as well as supporting documentation, I verify that this is one of the cars sold under this agreement with Don Yenko of Yenko Chevrolet.

Signed: Jack L. Douglass, witnesssed and notarized.

This is the certificate Jack provided prior to this thread ever having been started and has provided similar letters for many years prior to this web site ever having been established, back when only two of these rare cars were known to exist.

The Ed Cuneen Copo Connection certificate is the same as any other Yenko Vehicle Verification certificate with Jack Douglass stated as the dealer of record.

Many have sent private e-mails as to how we know the color break down and the number of Camaros. Jack Presented a simple formula; there were 6 Yenko Colors available for the camaros so he ordered four in each of these colors initially. That would be twenty four. His General Manager, Tom Dumass always drove a black Demo and added one black one to the order. It was also Tom who realized that the order could be changed to vary the available color options.He discussed this with Jack and spread out the other color combos other than Hugger Orange and Daytona Yellow.

[Charley Lillard]

That Certificate would be enough for me to feel comfortable if I were purchasing the car.

[John]

I agree...I think you will find that like with any "collectable", ... people who identify with a particular item from their heritage and location they grew up in may put more value on items that came from their hometowns...a "Douglas/Yenko" may be more valuable to a person that grew up near "Douglas Chevrolet" ...and likewise, a "Yenko/Yenko" may be more valuable to someone that grew up near "Yenko Chevrolet". ...But I am confused on one thing... If my car was ordered thru the Yenko dealership, sent there, had stripes and hurst dual-gate shifter installed, then was sent to Yunker Chevrolet in Wisc. and sat there till Oct. 1969 and Yenko bought it back, returned to Yenko Chevrolet and sold to the original owner in Pa.,... then would it be a
..."Yenko/Yunker/Yenko"? /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif

[L78Impala]

Is that Betty White next to that beautiful dover white Douglass Yenko? /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif
I can't tell with that hat on her head. /ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif

[Belair62]

I think that's just a Yenko still John !!!

[moparts]

How did the sale go?

[69rsss350]

Why in the hell would you revive this thread? /ubbthreads/images/icons/shocked.gif

[moparts]

Exactly the devil made me do it! /ubbthreads/images/icons/grin.gif