70 COPO

[Seaspray]

I was browsing old posts and it got me thinking about a car I've had on the back burner for a while, still collecting parts to restore it. Everytime I decide to sell it I end up talking myself out of it. It is a 70 Z28 with the COPO spoiler. I have no POP, window sticker, or build sheet. I have never looked for the build sheet, so where shoud I start? I do have the original title and license plate from 1970. I met with the original owner several years back. His health was failing so I never pushed the issue of original documents. He did verify the 40k on the clock were correct. I have no doubts of the cars pedigree because everything is there from the LT1 to the 12 bolt, all matching numbers. So, without the build sheet or some other documentation, is this car any more "special" than any other Z28? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[CamarosRus]

Norwood 70 Camaros (those with N as part of the VIN) did not come with build sheets. Without a build sheet or window sticker, could not ANY post May, 1970 Norwood Z be converted into a "COPO" Z-28.......I ask you???????

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/CamarosRus/PhilBorris70Z/Borris.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/CamarosRus/PhilBorris70Z/BorrisPhil.jpg

[70 copo]

Chuck,

I am glad I sent you the M/I Article, as I cannot get it to post up properly. As for conversions, It can be done and I have little doubt was done to more than a few 70's if people wanted to update the car's look some time later in life.

The conversion cars are pretty easy to detect by part number and fitment of the parts. The later spoilers fit quite a bit better whereas the original Piggins rush production COPO packages did not. Production was limited starting in mid may. So I guess if someone wants to go to the trouble to research and then locate the correct COPO spoiler parts, locate a Z28 with the correct build time frame, then proceed to ruin the original rear quarters by drilling holes in them for the end caps-then I guess you could clone one. Not much different than any other clone or fake at that point, as the real ones with documentation or owner history will be the "real deal" to the people who have them and for prospective buyers.

Here is a photo of my car taken by the original owner in 1971.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/70COPO/Cnv0655.jpg



Ohio plate SP 395 is special. SP=State Patrol 395 Trooper's Badge number. Car was purchased new at Dailey's in Erie PA.

Phil http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[nrjulin]

Apparently this guy from the NastyZ28 site found a bunch of build sheets for 1970 and 1972 Norwood Camaro's. He has them listed by VIN.

http://www.nastyz28.com/buildsh.html

http://home.fuse.net/jbprather/70bsheet.htm

Maybe someone is lucky enough to find thier car on the list. I was not.

[70 copo]

nrjulin,

Is the Daytona Yellow car coming to SCR-9??

Phil http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[70 copo]

[ QUOTE ]
I was browsing old posts and it got me thinking about a car I've had on the back burner for a while, still collecting parts to restore it. Everytime I decide to sell it I end up talking myself out of it. It is a 70 Z28 with the COPO spoiler. I have no POP, window sticker, or build sheet. I have never looked for the build sheet, so where shoud I start? I do have the original title and license plate from 1970. I met with the original owner several years back. His health was failing so I never pushed the issue of original documents. He did verify the 40k on the clock were correct. I have no doubts of the cars pedigree because everything is there from the LT1 to the 12 bolt, all matching numbers. So, without the build sheet or some other documentation, is this car any more "special" than any other Z28? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I think so. The first thing you have to do is confirm the car is real. The best way to do this is to do the research and confirm the ownership history of the car.

The significance of the 70 COPO 9697 cars were historically diminished by the use of this equipment in 71 as RPO D-80 with the RPO continuing to sell strong right through '81 where the street use of these parts was pretty much just for looks, unless you planned to run from the law and most road tests of the day let you know that.

From a racing prospective however this was an example of racing technology that did work and worked well.

With the demise of Chevrolet's Factory T/A racing effort in '71, the small team T/A racers continued to race with the big spoilers because they worked well. Later with the Camaro's use in the mid 70's in the IROC series (on TV) Chevrolet again got very serious about the use of the spoiler technology for racing. As speeds increased way beyond the old T/A speeds IROC drivers (then drafting at over 180mph) soon found that even the size of the old COPO spoiler from 70 had limitations- and then Chevrolet and IROC approved a modification in 1979 to add an additional larger center section to keep the rear of these racers planted. From a chevrolet perspective with sales of Camaros very strong through the 70's the contribution of the later IROC cars cannot be ignored as just like the old T/A days the Camaro's exposure in racing transulated into sales, as in '79 alone over 54,000 Z28's were sold.


The '70 COPO 9697 cars managed to get limited numbers of this start up racing technology to the street and in doing so started over a decade of racing achievement for Chevrolet, so I would have to say if you have a real '70 COPO car it is very special.

Phil http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[DarrenX33]

Phil in your opinion and in todays world what % does the COPO option tack on to the price of a fully restored Z?

[69LM1]

And how many 70 Copo's have been found to date? vs, how many do we think were produced (500 or so?)?

Rich

[Rick H]

I have one that is being restored. My car is an 06B build. It still has the original quarters and deck lid with the factory drilled holes. The quarter panel holes were done very crudely. Matter of fact the deck lid holes look pretty bad as well.
The quarters are being replaced but I am documenting everything.

Rick H.

[markjohnson]

Please help me here. I've always had trouble understanding the signifigance of the COPO 9697 on 1970 Camaros. Isn't it the same spoiler that was used on all 1970 Pontiac Trans Ams and Formula Firebirds? If this is so, then Pontiac should get the credit for developing the superior spoiler and Chevrolet just robbed it from their parts bin. My own 1970 Z/28 by the way is a smaller spoiler (holes filled in)car built in the third week of May in Norwood.

[70 copo]

[ QUOTE ]
Phil in your opinion and in todays world what % does the COPO option tack on to the price of a fully restored Z?

[/ QUOTE ]

First you have to want one and to many the '70 just does not look like a '70 without the standard short RPO Z28 spoiler.

But if you do want a real COPO 9697 and if the car has good history, documentation options and colors perhaps 50% bump in value.

I am going on what I was offered for mine compared to a simular optioned ( good resto-same color combo and a 4 speed) Standard Z-28' sale that was completed almost two years ago.

Phil http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[70 copo]

[ QUOTE ]
And how many 70 Copo's have been found to date? vs, how many do we think were produced (500 or so?)?

Rich

[/ QUOTE ]

I think perhaps 250-500 someplace in there. Piggins told me in 1985 that they needed 1000 for SCCA, but had "cheated the hell out of them" with the big problem being fit problems on the line pertaining to vendor AO Smith.

Perhaps the better question is how many of the original cars have actually survived two seperate time periods the late 80's and today where the majority of restorations completed on a 70 Z-28 require the addition of a short spoiler reguardless of what the car came with stock.

As late as a couple of years ago information on the 9796 option was limited to hard core Camaro people only. Heck in the mid 90's I was getting hammered at Super Chevy by the judges for the "wrong spoilers" "not availible till '71". It has been an up hill climb to correct the record and inform folks on these cars. Things really broke wide open two years ago when I re-discovered the Mechanix Illustrated article actually showing a picture of one of these rare cars being road tested.

Phil http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[70 copo]

[ QUOTE ]
I have one that is being restored. My car is an 06B build. It still has the original quarters and deck lid with the factory drilled holes. The quarter panel holes were done very crudely. Matter of fact the deck lid holes look pretty bad as well.
The quarters are being replaced but I am documenting everything.

Rick H.

[/ QUOTE ]


Rick,

Sounds right. The struggle to get the end caps to fit and line up required oversizing the holes.

Phil http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[70 copo]

[ QUOTE ]
Please help me here. I've always had trouble understanding the signifigance of the COPO 9697 on 1970 Camaros. Isn't it the same spoiler that was used on all 1970 Pontiac Trans Ams and Formula Firebirds? If this is so, then Pontiac should get the credit for developing the superior spoiler and Chevrolet just robbed it from their parts bin. My own 1970 Z/28 by the way is a smaller spoiler (holes filled in)car built in the third week of May in Norwood.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are right! Pontiac General Manager Jim McDonald agreed to let Chevy (Jim Delorean) use the center section developed for the Firebird Trans-AM. This was a favor by McDonald, and many at Pontiac were not happy at all about this deal. Then Pontiac vendor AO Smith then started manufacturing the Camaro end caps in "rush mode" on Temporary tooling and the production problems experienced with end cap fit significantly delayed the overall project and greatly reduced the total production.

Phil http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Rick H]

Phil,
You should see a few of the holes in the quarters. You can stick your thumb through 'em. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

Rick H.

[markjohnson]

This is an interesting subject as I just finished looking at the Camaro Registry and there are cars built before mine (05C build) with the tall COPO spoiler. I had always thought that Chevrolet had stopped production on the short spoilers and the remaining late '70 Z-28's got the tall spoilers and COPO designation. Apparently there was a mixture of the two spoilers as the cars came down the assembly line. Regular Z's got short spoilers and COPO Z's got the tall one. Interesting. I picked up my car recently advertised as a used and abused bracket racer in Oklahoma. It turned out to be a Shadow Grey, 4-speed radio delete Z-28 that has supposedly been a race car since new. Lots of neat features: magnesium Ramchargers dana 60, vintage four wheel race disc brakes, old fiberglass front clip and lots of swiss cheesing. An exciting find with a lost history that I'm trying to dig up.

[Xplantdad]

Hey Mark...sounds cool! Shoot some pics of it. BTW, I still see the AA/FX car around here every once in a while http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Rick H]

I believe that all 1970 Z/28's came standard with the one piece spoiler and after late April, early May of 1970 the three piece COPO spoiler became available but only as a special dealer order, not standard equipment. Phil??

Rick H.

[DarrenX33]

[ QUOTE ]
50% bump in value

[/ QUOTE ]

So like 20K or so for the spoiler option. Wow.

[CamarosRus]

FYI, My 07E Norwood Shadow Gray R/S Z has short spoiler....as shown in this 1978 picture

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/CamarosRus/Misc%20Camaro%20pics/Rear.jpg

[70 copo]

Rick,

Yes the dealers that knew about it could order it. How that all came together was through the zone reps as they were trying to spread them out to show the SCCA they were in production. Dealers within 300 miles of an SCCA race event were a priority for delivery.

Phil http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

PS. Chuck Nice Z. Do you still have it?

[COPO]

I've owned a '70 RS Z-28 for 26 years, so I follow the market fairly closely. I just can't believe for two absolutely identical '70 Z-28's that the market value is 50% more for the tall spoiler car. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif IMO, perhaps 5%-10% at the very best.

[70 copo]

Just my opinion based on the fact that mine is real and I was offered crazy money for it. But then again there is plenty of crazy money out there these days. The real ones with paper and history are so rare it is hard to keep an eye on what the market is.

If you find a real one (for regular Z money) please be sure to let us all know so one of us can get it. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif

Phil http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Seaspray]

I just took a look at mine and it is an 06B build date and has original body panels and paint. Nothing appears to have been touched.

[COPO]

Phil, I think you were offerred "crazy money" because your car is exceptionally restored and certainly one of the best in the country, plus it has a great history. Looking forward to seeing it again at SCR9. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[70 copo]

[ QUOTE ]
I just took a look at mine and it is an 06B build date and has original body panels and paint. Nothing appears to have been touched.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please post up some photos!!!

COPO and others... Looking forward to seeing all of you at SCR-9.

Phil http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[69LM1]

Someone here just bought a 70 Copo Z for I believe mid forty's, and many thought that a "good" deal. A regular 70 Z is selling for what, mid twenty's? I think Phil's math is probably pretty close. Of course, there are not many changing hands right now, so as many here say, it's worth what someone is willing to spend.

I will say that I have turned down 40k for mine.

You could make the same argument about the 69 COPO's vs. Yenko's. I do not think there is a whole lot of (if any) performance differances, yet the Yenko's demand a much higher price than the Copo's. You are buying the history/name (IMHO). In fact, without the Yenko history, you could make the argument that the regular Copo was in fact superior as it was produced and sold by GM, and the Yenko's are a dealer car, therefore sort of a "day 2" concept.

Same with the 70 Copo Z's. And they are alot harder to authenticate, so when one is air tight, I would think that is worth a premium.

What HP did the 350 duece have? Not being smart, just wondering cause the last time this conversation came up someone mentioned that the 70 Copo Z's were not in the supercar class as they were small blocks and I did not think of the Deuce's then! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Of course, now that I have one I am a bit biased http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif


Rich

[70 copo]

Rich,

I have to agree. Mine was wanted because it was a COPO.

Phil http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

[ QUOTE ]
What HP did the 350 duece have? Not being smart, just wondering cause the last time this conversation came up someone mentioned that the 70 Copo Z's were not in the supercar class as they were small blocks and I did not think of the Deuce's then! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Of course, now that I have one I am a bit biased http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif


Rich

[/ QUOTE ]

The Yenko Deuce Novas have the Z28's LT1 - including the same application codes for 4sp & a/t's. The Deuce is a SuperCar bec/ the COPO #9010 & #9737 were drivetrain performance items, whereas the '70 COPO Z's were a spoiler change. If I recall the debate, it was regarding whether the spoiler change was considered a performance enhancement vs. an SCCA homogulation requirement.

Either way, both are cool cars - but then, I might be a bit biased too http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[70 copo]

Marlin,

I knew you would chime in!! Clairification-As I recall the Deuce was created to beat the insurance companies as they attempted to rate hike the supercar out of existance-that is why there was no Big Block Yenkos built in 1970. Right?

They were and are both very cool cars, both getting the LT-1 from the "Corvette" option list.

Phil http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I'm sure Don had several reasons in mind for the Deuce copo's, one of which we feel was also SCCA homogulation - hence the similarities to the BOSS 302's. There were plans for Yenko big block products in '70, but alas, there were plenty of '69's on the lots!

Don't confuse the motives of Yenko with GM - I don't think GM created the copo to beat the insurance companies http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif GM approved the Deuce copos bec/ Don was buying 'em.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

There might just be a showdown on SCR9 betw/ a Deuce and a '70 Z http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[70 copo]

Marlin,

Sorry do not want to go too far off topic - but just one more question for you. I know there were Canadian Nova COPO LT-1 cars sold also. Were there any non Yenko Converted LT-1 Nova's sold stateside?

Phil http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

There were indeed two that went to Canada, with one surviving. We do not know of any that were sold in the US outside of Yenko's orders. However, most who have discussed this topic at places like the SCR's believe that the possibility is quite high, but without any special identification it would be hard to identify them.

[69LM1]

"Either way, both are cool cars - but then, I might be a bit biased too"

I Agree! 360hp out of a 350 stock?!
FWIW, Did'nt the LS5 454 have 360hp?

Phil, which one of us is going to take Marlin up on that offer? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif



Rich

[70 copo]

Rich,

Gee that is a tough one. Marlin runs the most consistant 14.4's that I have seen. Seriously-I cannot bring myself to risk the original drivetrain. You know perhaps if I had blown the engine up earlier in life, I might be more risky with it, as you may know in the LT-1 7500 comes up really quick and things get scary fast at those RPM's.

Original motor in your car?

Phil http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[Charley Lillard]

Arrgh.. I have driven hard alot of 70Z's and never had one come apart. Unless it is not put together right or is worn out it should hold up to a little abuse.

[70 copo]

Charlie,

Engine is good, Problem is I get kind of fearless when it comes to RPM's and I am used to high RPM modern fuel shut off. I am not sure I will be able to control my urge to wip it at the top end. I used to race it quite a bit as a kid. Took lots of chances including a 130MPH charge to the "top" one day.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/70COPO/Cnv1052.jpg

So I gotta pass.. Marlin will have to find someone else to beat up on http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

Phil http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

[ QUOTE ]
Rich,

Gee that is a tough one. Marlin runs the most consistant 14.4's that I have seen. Seriously-I cannot bring myself to risk the original drivetrain. You know perhaps if I had blown the engine up earlier in life, I might be more risky with it, as you may know in the LT-1 7500 comes up really quick and things get scary fast at those RPM's.

Original motor in your car?

Phil http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Full original drivetrain in my car, seen 7500 rpms many times - I ain't skeared of your little 'big spoiler' copo http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

BTW, you must have been sleeping last year, it's now 14.2's mister - don't knock another guy's times until you've run a better one http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

All joking aside http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif there is no better feeling than a blast down the 1320 with your fully restored car, regardless as to what it is; a deuce, a Z, a... You don't even have to go fast to have fun, as my 14.2's @ 99mph can attest to. Back to your previous topic of conversation.

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[70 copo]

Marlin,

14.4, 4.2, 13.9, all were times run in published road tests on LT-1's at the drags Camaro, Nova and Vette, so you know you are as good as the test drivers!!

But.. Sorry http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/no.gif you just cannot egg me on enough to twist the tires on the '70 Camaro. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

Good try though... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

Phil

PS. Lets compare broach marks on the decks of our engines at the show. I am collecting information on all of the Decking pattern variations for '70. WOW!! You have your original engine that is too cool!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Bring your digi-cam, and fire away on the broach marks - the pad is bare metal. My car has it's original engine, trans and rear, along with the POP, original BOS and Yenko's Inventory Sheet - and was very complete when I bought it. The normal replacement items were changed, carb, distributor, alternator, water pump & exhaust, but otherwise it was all there. There are some minor differences between our two LT1's, and make for some interesting discussion.

SCR9 http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Xplantdad]

Marlin...wasn't your Deuce featured on the Cars in Barns Website? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

I'll be there with my cameras... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Rick H]

[ QUOTE ]
Rick,

Yes the dealers that knew about it could order it. How that all came together was through the zone reps as they were trying to spread them out to show the SCCA they were in production. Dealers within 300 miles of an SCCA race event were a priority for delivery.

Phil http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif



[/ QUOTE ]

Which would make a lot of sense with my car seeing that it has always been a Western NY car and Watkins Glen is real close. The zone rep for the area my car was found also ordered the 1969 Camaro Pace car for Watkins Glen.

Rick H.

[69LM1]

"Original motor in your car?
Phil "

Yep, Original Motor, Tranny (Auto) and Rear. Even the carb is original. The only non original part is that someone added headers, but the exhaust manifolds were in the trunk, so before SCR9, the headers are scheduled to be removed next week. she will be back to bone stock.

Let me see what my mechanic has to say after he inspects and tunes her up, I am not the best driver, but if he gives the Ok, then we might have a race! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

Rich

[70 copo]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif
Now this would be great to see. Hmmm A 4.10, and a good reaction time.... Did you ever read the car craft from '70 where they drag tested a 70 Z28 and pulled a 12.9 out of it?

The weak link is always seems to be the stock driveshaft which usually fails at that point.

One of the the fastest regular road tests with the 70 Z28's were in automatics too. At this point you get your reaction time down and let the car do the rest. Road and Track ran a 14.2 with a driver and a full tank of gas. As I recall trap speed was a touch over 100.


OK. Marlin You may get what you want after all.

Phil http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[Charley Lillard]

Rich...Most of us are crappy drivers so don't worry about that aspect of it. If it were mine I would leave the headers on it.

[markjohnson]

I agree, leave the headers on. I think I've mentioned this before but a friend on mine has a bone stock, never opened, stock cam,intake,carb etc. 1970 LT-1 out of a '70 Z-28 that was wrecked very early in it's life. He's had this motor for like over 30 years in his Corvette. He recently yanked it out and put the engine into his son's '69 Camaro with a four speed, 4.11's, and some small nine inch slicks. The car runs 12:30's and this motor is even a little tired after so many years of street driving. Those times say alot about the performance potential of that engine. That's Rat motor territory!

[69LM1]

Marlin,

How's the deuce setup? Stock w or wo headers, cam etc?

I need to check the build sheet and see what rear is in mine.

Rich

[Jeff H]

Wouldn't a tall spoiler car be slower than a short spoiler car due to the added wind resistance at high speeds? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

[ QUOTE ]
Marlin,

How's the deuce setup? Stock w or wo headers, cam etc?

Rich

[/ QUOTE ]

Stock - GM blueprint cam, carb, intake, TRW pistons, orig. rods & crank, etc..., no headers, no traction bars (will add spring clamps after the Nationals), original leaf springs, original front coil springs, and some standard Pep Boys shocks - no drag shocks, no super stock springs, no lightweight stuff in the trans or rear or anything, and E70x14 whitewalls! (and the correct, original style battery - not a hollowed out job!).

LT1, M21, and 4.10's

[69LM1]

OK,
Looks like mine has "GY4 = 373 Rear Ratio and "G80" = Posi

http://www.69lm1.com/70copo/buildsheet.jpg

[70 copo]

Rich,

Most cool! Gotta love the LOS cars. Build sheets are great.

3.73 is just like mine. Based upon the road test data from 1970- Even with a nearly perfect reaction time your 1320 ET's (stock with a 3.73 gear) are gonna be likely only Mid 14's..http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hmmm.gif

Rich I gotta tell you If you decude to run it - a couple of passes at a local strip in your area will tell you for sure! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

Ok Marlin how much would you be willing give up to even the race?? How about leaving the headers on the Z??

Phil http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[hvychev]

God, am I gonna miss smokin yo azz this coming SCR Marlin......All the tunin' and fussin did not beat my 13.9 last year! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

[ QUOTE ]
God, am I gonna miss smokin yo azz this coming SCR Marlin......All the tunin' and fussin did not beat my 13.9 last year! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, this year I will have time to work on my own instead of yours http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif First a water pump, then fouled plugs last year http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif Just Funnin, but I believe that it's all in the driving - once JJ slammed down a 13.8x in your Deuce, you knew it was in there - and just drove it out. Not sure I'm willing to push mine too hard with the original drivetrain, but it sure is fun, even if I lose http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbang.gif

14's is just fine for a 3.73 geared car, with these tires it's a driver's race anyway. I would leave the headers on, it'll give me an excuse http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[COPO PETE]

[ QUOTE ]
but I believe that it's all in the driving - once JJ slammed down a 13.8x in your Deuce, you knew it was in there http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
How soon they forget that a stranger who never sat in the car slams 3 tenths down on the owners best time! Sorry Franky, http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Peter

[69LM1]

OK Marlin,
Going to the shop tomarrow am and getting checked out as far as race worthiness and tuned up. I will take the offer and leave the headers on.
But, how about we do this old school, no tree, just a nod and a go!?

[Xplantdad]

Let's get the guy from Pinks there... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[70 copo]

I have a knit cap I can wear.... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

This is getting too cool!! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

Phil http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

It doesn't matter to me, just make sure it's an old school pretty girl who is doing the flag dropping http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Anyone got JJ's phone number http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

[sYc]

[ QUOTE ]
Let's get the guy from Pinks there... http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Funny that you should mention Pinks... as this month they will be shooting 4 episodes of Pinks at Gateway. Maybe I can see if they will hang around until Labor Day. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[budnate]

sorry but that guy is DORK, show is hokey at best, great idea...wrong guy.

[TDW]

[ QUOTE ]
sorry but that guy is DORK, show is hokey at best, great idea...wrong guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I strongly agree.

[69LM1]

Yea, I think the guy from pinks is a little off too. Overhuauling has the right idea with a chick.

Looking good so far.

Rich

[COPO_Anders]

I took this pic on a 1971 Z28 rearspoiler. Wouldn´t they line up better on a -71 ?

[Rick H]

If the 3 piece spoiler on my 70 Z looked that good I would be very happy.

Rick H.

[70 copo]

Anders,

That is close to the way mine looks now - after placement of shims and painstakingly adjusting the entire spoiler for best fit. What I get in return is a silght gap between the end cap and the quarter.

Tooling used on the First run of end caps were only designed by AO Smith for an initial 500 part run.

[COPO_Anders]

Phil,
the reason why I showed that pic was that I thought it COULD be a COPO-spoiler, that had been remowed from a -70 Z and put on this -71.
I didn´t get a chance to look under the hood, so I don´t know if this was an Antwerp car. A friend of mine had a -71 Antwerp-built Camaro that was fitted with the small -70 spoiler by the factory.
I´m still curious, is this a typical 1971 spoiler ?

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[owners2]

What if someone was selling copo 9796 end caps on e-bay , How would you know? How exactly can anybody tell the differance from the first run of end caps that were made for copo cars as opposed to the end caps for the 71 cars & newer? Thanks Jeff

[owners2]

O.K. guy's,somebody has to know what the differance is between the first run of COPO end caps as opposed to when the end caps where re-tooled & revised.What is the specific differance?If there was a first run of 500 shouldn't they have a differant part # or possibly something changed that is reconizably differant.You surely wouldn't make new tooling & not have anything differant(mounting perch heights or widths ?).How would you know if you were looking at copo end caps? Hey Phil,help me out & tell me what to look for , thanks Jeff

[CamarosRus]

Hello to ALL my 2nd Gen friends, This COPO spoiler end piece issue is obviously a very obscure, rare subject. Phil B. in my thinking is the most known 70 COPO authority in the world. Jeff C.(owners2) from N.C. has many 71 Camaros with three piece spoilers, and has been trying to research the heck out it.
Up until recent times, I had never heard of the existance of two different varities of spoiler ends 1) those that were used on REAL 1970 COPO Camaros and 2) those that were used on all other 3pc Spoliers from 71-73.
In so far as (Carlisle) judging how will WE ever be able to tell a REAL 70 COPO apart from a cloned COPO w/o seeing a build sheet.........and Norwwod COPO's like Phils' didnt come with buildsheets.
I sincerely hope Phil, Jeff or someone can shed some much needed light on a very difficult hard to research group of parts...........

[RamAirDave]

My 70 RS Z is a fairly original car. 58K miles, all the #s I've checked line out (except for wp, which was early for the car), and the engine is still on the original GM build. No paper, though. 4.10 posi/TH400, never tracked it, but g-teched at 5.7 and 14.5. Figure thats pretty close to what a dead stocker should run.

Had a "quickie resto" (paint and blacked undercarriage), I'm guessing sometime during the mid 80s or so.

Can see where the car had the tall spoiler at one time. I briefly talked to Phil at SCR8, and being an 04A car it's too early to be a COPO spoiler car. Thought it was kind of interesting that it started life as a short spoiler car, then had a tall spoiler, then back to the short again.

Not saying that that happening would be out of the question by any means, I just guess whoever owned it at the time of the repaint didnt like the tall spoiler.

dave