70 Z/28

[lbnaz]

Hello, on a 70 Z Norwood car is the vin down by the oil filter like 69's are? I just purchased a barn find car with 66k on it that has sat since 78. The pad has CTB on it but no vin. Thanks, Larry.

[COPO]

Yes, normally, the VIN is down by the oil filter, although I have heard of several without the VIN. Is this an April build car by chance?

[musclecarjohn]

[ QUOTE ]
Hello, on a 70 Z Norwood car is the vin down by the oil filter like 69's are? I just purchased a barn find car with 66k on it that has sat since 78. The pad has CTB on it but no vin. Thanks, Larry.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pictures...where are the pictures? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[47Hammer]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, normally, the VIN is down by the oil filter, although I have heard of several without the VIN. Is this an April build car by chance?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hello, on a 70 Z Norwood car is the vin down by the oil filter like 69's are? I just purchased a barn find car with 66k on it that has sat since 78. The pad has CTB on it but no vin


I have an LA built '70 Z and the pad has V0327CTB on it and the trim tag shows 04A but no vin as well (on the pad), could there be a Vin# on LA built cars down by the oil filter? I don't see one and interested possible buyers are asking about it. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[47Hammer]

Would the block casting date be here on my '70 Z28?

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a321/megavin/SBC-casting-date.jpg

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I don't think so, I believe it's on the other side of that rear flange, same syntax just different location. I think your '70 Z should be an 010 block.

[Hotrodpaul]

Most of the LA built Camaro's I have seen have the VIN stamped on the pad, not down by the oil filter.

Paul

[lbnaz]

Here are some photos. I just bought the car from the second owner. He bought it in 73. He took it to a local speed shop and had the intake, carb, and headers put on for more hp. Then he had the strips taken off. He drove it until 78 then parked it. Its a non ps steering car, m22, RS. Still has the 772 fan, 837 alt, and pulleys. The floors are rock solid with rust issues on the pillars and front and rear glass. I put the wheels and tires on it to get it home. It had US mags. Still cleaning it out. Where would a build sheet be if they had one. Thanks, Larry.

[lbnaz]

The other side.

[lbnaz]

Exhaust

[lbnaz]

photo

[lbnaz]

engine

[lbnaz]

tag

[lbnaz]

Interior

[Rick H]

You should ask the previous owner if he as the original parts for the car. I.E. Air cleaner, valve covers, intake, carb, exhaust manifolds with smog setup, etc. Also the car should have the small rear bumper guards. He might have the stuff laying around.

Good project.

Rick H.

[raw muscle cars]

Question I thought z28 cars were referenced on the trim tag mine has Z28 on the trim tag. I see the emblems on the car but not on the tag...

[raw muscle cars]

Here is mine...http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m225/rawmusclecar/HPIM0314.jpg

[Rick H]

Some cars did not have the "Z" in front of the 28. I believe you will find the code either way up to around the middle of April, 1970. Somewheres around there.

His tag is correct for his car.

Rick H.

[lbnaz]

Hello, the trans is a 661 case with a P code of B so its a M21 and the vin is on the side of the case that matches the dash. The starter is a 418 and dated to the car. The heads are correct 186 and dated also to the cars build date. Thanks, Larry.

[lbnaz]

Hello, I have another done Z that is a July car that has the full Z/28.10 on the tag. I'm sure this other one is a Z also. Thanks, Larry

[budnate]

dang nice find!!! man the old desert heat did a number on the dash pad.

[bilede]

yep, original arizona interior there.. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif nice find!

[70CitrusZ]

My documented 70 Z only has .28 not Z28 on the tag.
Its an 02c build If i remember correctly.

[70CitrusZ]

So far no one has found a build sheet in a norwood built 70 Z.
There is a guy who has a bunch of body broadcast sheets posted on the net are the vins. His dad used to work at the plant and brought home the sheets for scrap paper for the kids to color on. If you luck out he may have yours. Check the second generation camaro owners group web site.

[musclecarjohn]

[ QUOTE ]
My documented 70 Z only has .28 not Z28 on the tag.
Its an 02c build If i remember correctly.

[/ QUOTE ]

My 04D Norwood built '70 Z says "Z28.10" on it...

[lbnaz]

Hello, I have decided that I will proably sell the 70 RS/Z car. Can someone give me an idea of what its worth. It has the numbers matching engine, m21 trans with vin, and COZ rearend in it. The floors and trunk are rock solid but it has serious rust around the front and rear window area. Thanks, Larry.

[Rick H]

Didn't you just buy this car a couple days ago? Obviously you bought it to flip so you must have some idea of what it's worth. How about the individual you bought it from, did they know what it was worth?

You know what you paid and anything above that on the sale is profit.

Rick H.

[Charley Lillard]

[ QUOTE ]

Didn't you just buy this car a couple days ago? Obviously you bought it to flip so you must have some idea of what it's worth. How about the individual you bought it from, did they know what it was worth?

You know what you paid and anything above that on the sale is profit.

Rick H.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is your point Rick ? Are you just giving him a hard time because he is selling the car so soon ? How do you know he bought it tp flip ? Maybe when he dug into the car and found the rust he decided it was not the car for him. He is asking what it is worth before posting in the classifieds. I like that he is disclosing the rust and asking here instead of taking offers in the ad section.

[Rick H]

You know exactly what my point is Charley, so I don't have to explain anything. I wasn't giving him a hard time. Normally if you just bought a car like that Z you have some idea of what it's worth.

[ QUOTE ]
He is asking what it is worth before posting in the classifieds

[/ QUOTE ]

He just bought it for a certain price so he already had a starting point. Put it in the classified section for more then what you bought it for and wait for the offers.

You want to call me out on the carpet you go right ahead. I don't appreciate it but why would I expect anything less.

Rick H.

[69LM1]

"You know what you paid and anything above that on the sale is profit."

IMO, Nothing wrong with profit. Last time I checked this was still America.

[Salvatore]

Charley, with all do respect you jumped on Rick a little hard didn't you? He was just making a point, asking a question. I thought the same thing. Everybody has to have some idea what things are worth if the bought it. I am sure Rick wasn't trying to bust any gonads. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif JMO Sam

[Charley Lillard]

No I don't think I jumped on Rick too hard. He is stating Ibnaz bought the car to flip when we have no idea why he bought it other than it was a neat barn find. I think any of us that stumbled onto that car would try to buy it even if we had no use for it. I assume it went for a reasonable price.


"I don't appreciate it but why would I expect anything less.".... And why would you expect that ?

[Salvatore]

Ok, Just thought I would give you my opinion on the matter. I know Rick is a tough New Yorker but does know his business.

[Rick H]

Sam,

Thanks. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

Rick H.

[Rick H]

Charley,

I'm not going to get into a pi$$ing contest with you but wouldn't you think that someone who has asked for specific 1970 Z/28 parts in the past and sells other items related to muscle cars would have a pretty good idea of how much the car is worth?? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat...true#Post126932 (http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB6&Number=126932&Search page=3&Main=126932&Words=lbnaz&topic=&Search=true# Post126932)


Nuff said.

Rick H.

[Charley Lillard]

He asked what it was worth so I assume he is asking for opinions. You state he bought it to flip but you don't really know that do you? You still didn't answer my question about "I don't appreciate it but why would I expect anything less". Is there some specific way I treat you all the time or something ?

[Rick H]

Yes, I think he bought the car to flip, what's wrong with thinking that?

Yes, he should know what it's worth. [ QUOTE ]
Hello, I have another done Z that is a July car that has the full Z/28.10 on the tag. I'm sure this other one is a Z also. Thanks, Larry

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice looking car by the way. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

And lastly, yes.

Good night.

Rick H.

[CamarosRus]

The Camaro in question needs complete restoration to satisfy most fututre owners. It does not appear to be one of those survivors (ala Jack Seymours 70 Hugger Orange) that can be only cleaned and detailed.
The pictures provided are too vague to draw many conclusions, as to present condition or needed parts (MANY)
Top restored 70 Z-28 Rally Sports, probably can command over $50K......and more
I would think this Camaro including born with powertrain might be "worth" $25K (W.A.G.)......but if car got in EBAY bidding war........who knows ???????
I do want to lend my moral support to Rick H. as I dont feel his comments to ibnaz were out of line. He just pointed out what might well be the obvious. If ibnaz had no intention of flipping, and improves/restores the car, its value will of course increase......so any opinions on current value would be meaningless.

[70CitrusZ]

I'm just curious, and I'm asking a neutral question, so nobody take it the wrong way, but is there something wrong with buying a car to flip for a profit? http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif If so I am a bad boy, cause I've done that about a thousand times.

I'll bite at the unrestored value at about 20.

[akcamaro]

my opinion $10-15K, but I'm cheap.

And as far as flipping goes, I doubt I'll ever have the spare coin to strait up purchase my dream Motion or Yenko, with kids, morgages, life, and whatnot. But I'm a quarter of the way to flipping my way into one. And flipping is a pretty fun means to an end.

now I'll go back into a dark corner and continue lurking. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worship.gif

[DarrenX33]

20k, 25k? What are restoration costs these days? Either they got cheaper or I have missed 70Zs pulling that kind of coin. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[lbnaz]

Hello, I appreciate all the input. I saw on an ad in parts for sale that it is recomended to ask on the discussion page for pricing before listing on the for sale page. I have nothing against flipping or making a profit on something or someone doing it. This car came along and the time frame in finding out about it and buying it was 2 days. It was sh** or get off the pot. I have just started a frame off on a 69Z so I could use the funds on it. I'm not looking to make a fortune but do not want to leave alot on the table either. I do this a hobby and not a business. I work full time (Union Pipefitter) and play with cars. I generate funds with car parts to work on mine. If and when I do sell this I will donate to this site since it is a great site. Thanks, Larry

[70CitrusZ]

Dude, you don't have to justify yourself for flipping a car. If you bought it and its your property you can do with it what you like. If you wanted to drive it to the Camaro nationals and set it on fire, that is up to you. Don't let it get to you.

Real values for 70 Z's have indeed gone up quite a bit. Good non ebay cars bought and sold get to 45-50k, maybe more. Some people can't afford a 35-45,000 hit at once, but they can buy a 15-20k car and pick away at it.
People are beginning to see the value in these cars, and realizing their importance as easily the best Z ever built.

Back to the flipping thing, I'd much rather have people flipping than hoarding, keeps the cars out there, and not rotting into the lawn, you can see the damage that has been done to this car by "storing".

[budnate]

[ QUOTE ]
Back to the flipping thing, I'd much rather have people flipping than hoarding, keeps the cars out there, and not rotting into the lawn, you can see the damage that has been done to this car by "storing".

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif

[GM-26]

[ QUOTE ]
If you wanted to drive it to the Camaro nationals and set it on fire, that is up to you.

[/ QUOTE ] http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif

[Rick H]

I don't have a problem with anyone buying a car for resale but wouldn't it make better sense to ask what a car is worth BEFORE you bought it for resale?

And again, normally those who deal in these cars and even own one would or at least should know it's value. I would think. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif That's all I am saying. I could care less what someone does with their cars.

This is just my 2 cents on what some are saying about it's worth so don't take it personal. I can't believe that the car is worth $20-25K in the condition it is in. Even $15k is a little high.
The car needs a total restoration and for those who haven't priced out a restore lately the hourly rate is not cheap. The roof repair alone is going to top the list as high dollar. Let's say it takes 1000 hours to restore at a medium rate of $50.00 an hour. That's $50,000 in labor alone. Then add in the parts needed. You'll be up close to $100k when finished. Are 70 Z's worth that number? I find it hard to believe and I own one. JMHO.

Now go have fun.

Rick H.

[DarrenX33]

[ QUOTE ]
This is just my 2 cents on what some are saying about it's worth so don't take it personal. I can't believe that the car is worth $20-25K in the condition it is in. Even $15k is a little high.
The car needs a total restoration and for those who haven't priced out a restore lately the hourly rate is not cheap. The roof repair alone is going to top the list as high dollar. Let's say it takes 1000 hours to restore at a medium rate of $50.00 an hour. That's $50,000 in labor alone. Then add in the parts needed. You'll be up close to $100k when finished. Are 70 Z's worth that number? I find it hard to believe and I own one. JMHO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Got to agree on that one. That's why I asked the question. IMHO I don't think 70Z are demanding that much yet. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

[69LM1]

Rick, good info. Even if the first post was a little agressive IMHO if the person does not know you from here.

Was anyone watching this auction? The 70Z there was almost just like this one, just more rust. 6,700.00 final selling price.


70 Z on Ebay Click Here (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=330033182695&ih =014&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT)

Rich

[Rick H]

[ QUOTE ]
a little agressive

[/ QUOTE ] LOL, I get like that sometimes? I don't mean to offend anyone, believe me.

Rich, the one you posted is a 1971 Z28 but the point is the same. Cars in this condition are IMO just not worth big dollars yet. If you have to pay twice what it is worth just to restore it then that is not an investment.

Of course if you want to buy a rust bucket, restore it to pristine and drive/keep it 10-20 years then by all means go for it. It's all based on individual choice.

Rick H.

[ANDY M]

Check out the for sale ads in Hemmings. If I had a dollar for every ad that had the line "$$$ invested in restoration, will sacrifice for $$$" I'd be a rich man. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
The 80% restored ads are also know as "Divorce Projects", meaning that if you spend another dollar, etc. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
(Or the guy needs money because of the impending divorce). http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
We have all heard these stories. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
Buy one that's done! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif
Or figure out if the parts are worth more than the asking price and part it out. Just as much work, but less chance of losing money. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/scholar.gif

[Rick H]

[ QUOTE ]
Buy one that's done!

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent point. At one time I had my 1967 RS for sale at a certain dollar amount. Yes, it wasn't cheap but the car is worth every penny in my mind. Some on here have seen it.

But anyways, I had someone come look at the car and he started pointing at things (which were not an issue) just so he could try to get me to come down on my price.

He offered me $5k less then my asking price saying he didn't feel the car was worth it. To add this was his first Camaro he was buying. Finally I just said to him "go build one and see what it cost you". First you have to find a nice car to start with then add the cost of restore and parts.

Well a couple months later he called back and offered me my asking price. I turned him down. He should have done his research before he came and looked at the car and wasted my time.

I totally agree, it's cheaper to buy them done. Great point.

Rick H.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

Why did you turn him down?

[Late BrakeU2]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Buy one that's done!

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent point. At one time I had my 1967 RS for sale at a certain dollar amount. Yes, it wasn't cheap but the car is worth every penny in my mind. Some on here have seen it.

But anyways, I had someone come look at the car and he started pointing at things (which were not an issue) just so he could try to get me to come down on my price.

He offered me $5k less then my asking price saying he didn't feel the car was worth it. To add this was his first Camaro he was buying. Finally I just said to him "go build one and see what it cost you". First you have to find a nice car to start with then add the cost of restore and parts.

Well a couple months later he called back and offered me my asking price. I turned him down. He should have done his research before he came and looked at the car and wasted my time.

I totally agree, it's cheaper to buy them done. Great point.

Rick H.

[/ QUOTE ]


Not to mention you can enjoy it TODAY.Of course there are craftsman who's reward comes from the restoration itself.


Anyone price a set of second gen NOS rally wheel hubcaps lately? Both these cars need big hugs-If you were GIVEN either and did them correctly you still be upside down at the end of the journey.Like previously stated some cars are worth doing an others are not-where will the second gen market be in two years time when the car is actually finished? Perhaps the fellow that bought this one did the math and thought the same.JMHO

[70CitrusZ]

At the expense of sounding biased or grumpy I must comment that that ebay car is probably about 100 times as rusty as the one posted here initially.

If you want to compare please find a true comparison.

True,I might have been a little high on my guesstimate of value on the car, but it was just a guess.

So If it is only worth 6700, what he probably should do is part it out.
I know some people looking for RS front ends and the alternator, a block and some other stuff...pm me if you want I'll connect ya with some customers for the parts.

[Hotrodpaul]

Most all the stuff for 2nd Gens is getting quite expensive and there are very few nice repro parts available.

Paul

[69LM1]

I was not trying to say the Z is only worth 6700, just pointing out that a similar car, but yes, more rusty, and also a 71 vs a 70 (tks Rick, good catch) that just sold. The 70's with the 350/360 do seem to bring in much higher dollars that the 71-72's. You can't seem to give 73's away.

Of course, it's all in how much you can do yourself as well. In most cases, it is cheaper to buy one than restore one.

For someone whose dream car is a 70 Z, but only has 10k (or 12 or 13) in the bank, then he might not have any other choice than to buy a fixer uper and restore over time, even if he has more in it in the end.

[TDW]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet...sspagenameZWDVW (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet-Camaro-70-1-2-Z-28-1970-Camaro-Z28-W-3-Build-Sheets-and-P-O-P_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6161QQihZ013QQitemZ23 0034447088QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW)

Lets see where this one goes.

[69LM1]

Hmmm, super clean and lots of docs, but no vin on the engine, wrong tranny and distributor. 22k and rising. http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/3gears.gif

[Late BrakeU2]

That car is owned by member here,and a good friend of mine for over thirty years.That is an all original sheet metal,Cali born and raised zero rust car.It's got some of the strongest docs I have ever seen on a 70 including three partial sheets(how many came on Norwood cars?) and complete owner history back to day one.It even has the CAL DMV temp tags issued at delivery and documented mileage via service reciepts up the kazoo.The motor in that car is the one that it came down the line at Van Nuys with.Not all of them had the VIN stamped on the pad-Yes it does need a correct tranny and a high end paint job to complete it.For what he is asking you would have the financial latitude to address those two items and have a done car for the same money you would be spending on those other two paperless hulks(no offense intended to the owner:)-not to mention saving yourself the madness of waiting and scratching for those rare finishing items.BTW I do believe there is a correct dist that goes along with it. jmo http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif

[poolhustler]

I wouldn't trust that guy.......he is from Cali http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Really nice looking car though!!

Russ...

[CamarosRus]

Above EBAY Shadow Gray Z-28 has incorrect later wheels, incorrect wood dash bezel, incorrect shifter ball/knob....FYI!!!!

[Rick H]

[ QUOTE ]
Why did you turn him down?

[/ QUOTE ]

During the time he was "thinking it over" I was persuaded by others not to sell it. It was a good choice.

Rick H.

[Rick H]

[ QUOTE ]
Above EBAY Shadow Gray Z-28 has incorrect later wheels, incorrect wood dash bezel, incorrect shifter ball/knob....FYI!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Ouch! and you guys thought I was tough! http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

Rick H.

[lbnaz]

Hello, thank-you for all the input. I have listed the car for sale here and will donate to the site when it sells. Email or call. Thanks, Larry.

[70-SS/RS-L78]

[ QUOTE ]
Above EBAY Shadow Gray Z-28 has incorrect later wheels, incorrect wood dash bezel, incorrect shifter ball/knob....FYI!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]
IMO; That is just the start of a short list of correctable issues with this car, I would not be able to get the $27,000 out of my pocket fast enough
if it was offered to me for that price.