E-Bay '69 Yenko Disguised As a Z-28 Clone!

[al8apex]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rpoz11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bergy, good day to you Sir.

After 18 pages of...discussion,

blah blah blah. </div></div>

now at 37 pages ...

IF you had read this discussion you might have picked up that he is now in Florida and the car is in storage in Pennsylvania AND that he said that AFTER he got back (assuming spring, as a lot of people go to FL for the winter, just as many do here in AZ) he would be taking the car apart ...

unnecessary needling about what he should do &amp; shouldn't do with what he owns is not appropriate IMHO ...

he has addressed everything straight up and is not trying to hide anything, input from the peanut gallery is uncalled for <span style="font-weight: bold">IMHO</span>

(I guess nearly as unnecessary as my response is on the issue, as I am about as far removed from everything as anyone can be ...)

[rpoz11]

al8apex:

I prefer to agree with sYc 's quote below.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sYc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Laying all emotion and opinions a side, need to look at this from the legal standpoint.

A car’s legal VIN number is what is stamped in the metal, not the VIN plate, thus you have a legit ’69 Camaro Z-clone without a title..

The stampings carry all of the weight with law enforcement, and were stamped for a very good reason, because VIN plates can be easily removed.

If the VIN does not come up in the police data base, might be able to a title for the clone Z.

Next you have a VIN plate with a title that belongs to another car, not the clone Z. At any point in time, if someone comes up with the original body with VIN stampings, they can claim the VIN tag and title because legally they own the car that the VIN tag belongs to. </div></div>

[jannes_z-28]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: al8apex</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rpoz11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bergy, good day to you Sir.

After 18 pages of...discussion,

blah blah blah. </div></div>

now at 37 pages ...

IF you had read this discussion you might have picked up that he is now in Florida and the car is in storage in Pennsylvania AND that he said that AFTER he got back (assuming spring, as a lot of people go to FL for the winter, just as many do here in AZ) he would be taking the car apart ...

unnecessary needling about what he should do &amp; shouldn't do with what he owns is not appropriate IMHO ...

he has addressed everything straight up and is not trying to hide anything, input from the peanut gallery is uncalled for <span style="font-weight: bold">IMHO</span>

(I guess nearly as unnecessary as my response is on the issue, as I am about as far removed from everything as anyone can be ...) </div></div>

X2

Jan

[Tracker1]

&quot;A car’s legal VIN number is what is stamped in the metal, not the VIN plate, thus you have a legit ’69 Camaro Z-clone without a title..

The stampings carry all of the weight with law enforcement, and were stamped for a very good reason, because VIN plates can be easily removed. &quot;

Talk to ten different vehicle theft cops on ten different police forces and 5 will agree with this statement and five will not, they will prefer the dash tag - go ahead, try it. There is no wholesale consensus among car cops about this, that's a myth.


&quot;Next you have a VIN plate with a title that belongs to another car, not the clone Z. At any point in time, if someone comes up with the original body with VIN stampings, they can claim the VIN tag and title because legally they own the car that the VIN tag belongs to.&quot;

If the dash VIN tag can be proven to have never left this car, the above is an invalid point.

If I were trying to establish a chain of ownership of 21 people with sworn statements from each saying &quot;I never removed that dash tag from that car&quot; from all 21 then I would leave the sheetmetal alone until that was done. Then a law enforcement officer could accompany me to my garage and look over my shoulder as I pulled the heater box from a complete car. If a cop walked into a garage with a Camaro spread out all over the floor I would think it would taint his viewpoint as to whether the car had been tampered with versus seeing a whole bolted-together car. Regardless of sworn statements. That seems to me to be basic psychology.

Bergy is playing it right in my opinion. I know others will not agree.

[sYc]

[quote

Talk to ten different vehicle theft cops on ten different police forces and 5 will agree with this statement and five will not, they will prefer the dash tag - go ahead, try it. There is no wholesale consensus among car cops about this, that's a myth.

[/quote]


Got to disagree with you on this one. I know in Missouri the stampings carry all of the weight, and know of cases in other states where the same held true. The stampings were put there for a reason.

[vfitom]

Ditto to the above post by SYC........If a theft cop just checks the dash/public VIN and does not check the C-VIN stampings, then he did not do his job properly. I would like to see some pics posted by Bergy of the top and underside of the public VIN plate and surrounding area.

[1969z280]

Why?

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1969z280</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why? </div></div>

Because something monkeyed with 25 years ago can look just as old as something 35 years ago. Not inferring one direction or the other, but if someone visually looks at something and concludes that its original and another person looks at the same thing and concludes otherwise - which person is right?

These discussions become circular after awhile, especially without anything materially new coming to light. The info and history thus far is circumstantial, the teardown itself should help clear up the story. After 37 pages..... yada yada...., its about being patient - Bergy has other things in life ya know!

[1969z280]

Hey, I agree he has other things in life. I don't understand why he's being pounded on by all kinds of people (members and non-members) to satiate their curiosity about a car in which they have no financial interest.

I've been supportive of Bergy's position throughout this thread. I've thanked him for sharing the information. I'm curious about the car. I'm not envious or trying to questions his character or motives as so many others appear to be doing.

Yada, yada, yada... I just asked Why to &quot;vfitom&quot; asking for pictures of the areas surrounding the VIN tag. I think this incessant pounding and requests for additional information from the guy is ridiculous! JMHO, Ed

[bergy]

These are all conclusions of law that would require presentation of evidence combined with examination of prior case law. I respect all of the opinions/conclusions preseneted here - I'm not a lawyer so I can't add much. I have had our attorneys take a look at it, but the facts are still evolving. We're pretty much repeating the same thins over and over now. We can be certain, though, that someday someone will develop a method of stamping cowls (they did it in 1969 - but they'll never figure out how to do it in 2010 - right?), and then this whole &quot;pre-eminance of cowl stamps&quot; theory will fly out the window.
This thread has been very helpful to me and I am indebted to everyone who has helped me write the &quot;book&quot; on 616414. Of course, all of the comments, PMs, etc. will forever be part of the story along with the comments of past owners. My investment is now down to nearly $375.00 per page! I have nothing to add; just a lot of rabbit trails and research to pursue. I won't be checking in, but if anyone needs/wants to get in touch - my email is on file here. I appreciate it when we can disagree without being disagreeable. It's a great site - when we meet, the beer's on me! Blessings, Bergy