Webster's 67 Bel Air Conversion

[Charley Lillard]

I promise I will delete the non Kwhizz stuff when the LS discussion dies down.

[Charley Lillard]

"My hangup is old iron with an LS type engines. It is about like installing a PW F135 in an old P-51 Mustang ... UGH!"

Kinda like putting a big block Chevy in a 32 Ford. How dare they remove a Flathead V8.
[img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/CharleySucks.gif[/img]

[kwhizz]

After determining that the pan will be acceptable......I decided to pull the engine out again so I could finish up changing the steering box from that super slow stock ratio manual box to a Jeep Grand Cherokee power steering box....Three turns lock to lock.......I also can now finish &quot;Clearancing&quot; the trans tunnel to fit the new trans..........and I also removed the gas tank so it can be modified to work with the new fuel system.........also removed were the front Drum Brakes which will be replaced with Discs........Mark is bringing over the balance of parts next week so we can do the final assy...........This was hard the first time I did it , but..........LOL...........Also here are some more pic's from the underside of the car..........Just Amazing......


























Ken

[VintageMusclecar]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I promise I will delete the non Kwhizz stuff when the LS discussion dies down. </div></div>

Sorry if I caused any trouble, I was just rattling Ken's cage a little bit. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/dunno.gif[/img]

[454_Malibu]

I enjoy everything on this site. The Kwizz builds are the best. I have a 74 Malibu with a factory 454 4speed. ( M21). It barely has 225 HP. Its fun to drive, but it's a slow ride. If I had the time and knowledge I would pull the motor and tranny, set them aside and drop an LS 6.0 with 6 speed tranny in a heartbeat. My 04 and 07 Silverado's both have LT headers with high flow cats,, they would run circles around my Malibu. That being said I want to say I Luv this Site. God Bless everyone, have a safe weekend. Happy Easter. Scot.

[old5.0]

I'm only 37, but I've owned at least one example of almost every old school engine you can think of. There simply is no comparison between any engine designed when Eisenhower was still living in the White House and the modern powerplants. Our knowledge of metallurgy, airflow dynamics, porting, camshaft design, etc. are lightyears ahead of the state-of-the-art in the 60's. We all have our favorites; I like small block Fords, but there just isn't any way to effectively argue the point. Sure, the aftermarket closes the gap considerably. I could go out tomorrow and build a Ford 302 that makes 13 or 14 hundred horsepower on the motor, but it would be 99% (or more) aftermarket and cost 25 grand.

Think about this alternative: I can go to the junkyard, find a 6.2 LS or a 5.0 Coyote, put it in a lightened Fox body and, if I have an effective suspension and driveline set-up, run low 10's <span style="font-style: italic">without a power adder</span>. Put that in context, guys. If I could take that car back in time to Pomona in 1970, I could finish in the top 5 in Pro Stock with a junkyard engine that runs on 87 octane pump swill and idles like a Cadillac. NMRA Factory Stock guys are running high-10's in pushrod 5.0 Fox bodies using stock heads, intakes, blocks, etc. at 308-310 cubes and that's certainly impressive, but those engines are scienced out like you wouldn't believe. A stock LS in the same chassis would lop 7-8 tenths off their best time without cracking a valve cover.



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am just short of 70 years old and have had more BBC than I can count. IMHO the Loose Squirrel (read LS) engines are for those that need a computer to tune for them. Also, they go to a junk yard, drop it in and bolt on a bunch of gee-gaw crap to hide the fact they have bolted in an LS -- and their happy.

Bottom line -- to each their own ... TAZ</div></div>

I respect your opinion, but consider this for a minute. John Mihovitz at Accufab has been campaigning the Ford 4.6 DOHC Modulars in various heads up classes for years. He uses assembly line blocks, cylinder heads, even cam drives, mostly sourced from the junkyard. Last I heard, he had hit <span style="font-style: italic">2600 horsepower</span> on the engine dyno. Since that was almost two years ago, and he's currently running his 4.6 powered Pro Mod in the high-5 second range, I can only assume that he's awfully close to the 3000 horsepower threshold, if he hasn't crossed it already. I want to say again, that's with junkyard hard parts (Hell, he was still using production 96-98 Cobra crankshafts until he crossed the 2,000 horsepower barrier.) So how does he make that much power from 281 cubes? Lots of boost (60+ PSI) and lots of compression (somewhere around 14.5:1 is my understanding). Seems easy, but how do you make that live in an assembly line block?

He does because he's an artist with the tune-up. Forget the computer, tuning an engine is an art form, no matter what tools you use to do it. I can rebuild a Holley, but I can't tune a pair of Dominators like Grumpy. It's the same with electronics. Hand me a laptop and I'll get your XFI'd LS swap up and running, but there's no way in hell I could do what Mihovitz does.

[69 Post Sedan]

I love the LS motors but will never put one in my car. Period.

With that being said, I have a friend who built a below budget 5.3. He used a stock iron block,stock heads, big cam, Edelbrock intake and a old 700 double pumper. He honed the cylinders, installed stock pistons, bought an Auto Zone crank, slapped it together and got 450+ horse power at the crank on a &quot;stingy&quot; dyno as one person said.

I never would have guessed it out of a little 327.

Kurt

[earntaz]

OK all -- I cry uncle ... to each their own!!

And Tony -- have to agree on those &quot;little&quot; 4.6 motors ... my 07 FX2 Sport has one and when it winds up it sounds like a Suzuki on steroids. TAZ

Happy Easter ALL!!

[VintageMusclecar]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Charley Lillard</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A huge difference is driveability. If my Mom were still alive she could drive my 950 hp car. I have a 509&quot; BBC old school EFI in a 32 Ford making a claimed 750 hp that I would never let my Mom drive. It is neat but not even in the same room with the LS. The 20K LS9 shown above can easily make a dependable and driveable 750 hp with a little tweaking. </div></div>

Check your PM's please. [img]<<GRAEMLIN_URL>>/smile.gif[/img]

[kwhizz]

Mark stopped over yesterday and dropped off more boxes.........Perfect timing.......Put the new front sway bar on today.......It fits.......Sort of........Generic Kits...............Also got the front disc brakes on ......Now on to the new Power Booster and master....(After a Nap).......