1966 Yenko Stinger for sale - Page 6

copolocater · #51 10-07-2002, 04:59 PM

Mike you hit the nail right in the head.Call it what it is Nickey/Thomas---Nickey , Baldwin Motion---Motionconverted , Yenko---Douglass Yenko

**Mr70** · #52 10-07-2002, 05:21 PM

Looking at the Yenko Sportscars,Inc.ad that says "Meet The Mean Ones!"
It lists al the different states and the Names of all those dealers in the Yenko network.I'm sure everyone has seen this.
How are those cars referred to today?
Are they identified as Yenkos,or Francis/Yenkos as in from that Missouri dealership?
Were they too paying Don $400.00 for his striping kits?
How was Douglass different from them?

**YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY** · #53 10-07-2002, 05:33 PM

Stefano;
A well written documentary, but I don't see any proof of this 'relationship'.

Mike;
Likewise, I don't see what backs up the 'undisputed truth'.

We have a copy of the sales agreement between Josh Darden, the owner of Colonial Chev., and Don Yenko. Evidently, when Yenko entered into a deal with one of his participating dealers, it was put into writing. Until I see the Douglas situation in writing, I will have difficulty believing the verbal conversations. I'm not downing Douglas and his employees etc... but we all know that it is hard to remember all this stuff from 30 years ago. Don claimed 500 Yenko Camaros in his interview in '87 remember?

I obviously have a different opinion on this, based primarily on the fact that I don't place a lot of weight on verbal recollections. In my mind, if your Motion stripes/parts, Yenko stripes/emblems, or Stinger stuff came in the mail - you have a mail order car, not the real deal [img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

JoeC · #54 10-07-2002, 05:33 PM

As I said in my post I am giving my opinion. I am not trying to make any rules new or old and not implying any opinion on market value. Whichever one the market determines is of higher value is fine with me and does not matter as far as the history of the cars. I am more interested in the history of the cars but of course I do watch the market also. Any hi performance car is a great piece of automotive history no matter what dealer sold it.
My opinion on the Motion cars -- if it did not go through Baldwin Auto Sales it is not a Baldwin/Motion car. It is a Motion Performance car. I see the Nickey/Thomas cars as a different situation. The original adds beginning in late 1966 state that Nickey and Thomas were both building 427 Camaros. So you have the Nickey/Thomas relationship clearly stated in the original ads. There are ads for 1967 427 Dana/Yenko Camaros so there was some type of relationship with Dana but unfortunately not much is known about these 67 Yenkos as yet. The 1969 Yenko documents state that the cars were built by "Yenko Sports Cars Inc. The leading producer of Hi Performance Chevrolet Based Vehicles." If Douglas made his own Yenko ID kit it would have been an illegal copy but they reached an agreement and Douglas made a legal copy. Usually in the collector world a copy is a copy. Authorized or not it is never the same as an original produced by the original creator. The Douglas story is interesting. I am giving my opinions on a something that happened many years ago and I was not there and do not wish to make Mr. Douglas feel he or his cars are being talked about in a negative way.

**bkhpah** · #55 10-07-2002, 05:37 PM

The big difference lies right under your nose. Douglass used Yenko's ordering procedure and enhanced it with options Yenko did not use. Yenko was the father of the 9561 and 9737 COPO Camaros, Chevelles and COPO LT/1 Novas along with many other inovations and forward thinking, not Douglass. Yenko was to have the exclusive rights to the 427 Camaro. What happened that the door was opened for other dealers to lift his hard work? You might ask Jim Maddison. Byrnes Brothers was an authorized Yenko dealer and also sold their version of a stripper COPO Camaro. Most of the major players like Berger, Nickey/Thomas, Motion, Harrell etc benifited from Yenko's understanding of the GM COPO system. The Nickey/Thomas question seams easy to me. These cars were advertised that way. The Douglass/Yenko cars were not. Don't ask don't tell seems to be the word on the Douglass cars. Surely a customer would be unaware that his car had no Canonsburg history. Most might not even care, but the facts is they don't. 30+ years ago nobody would expect the COPO Camaros to be worth anything. Having a Douglass car with all the additinal gingerbread is a cool car. Why should it not be considered a Douglass car period. I would not want a car with Yenko badging if it was not from Canonsburg. If Douglass was the man with the ideas we would all be fooled into thinking our Yenko/Douglass cars are the same as a real Douglass car. Its all just opinions, and the Douglass cars are very unique, but not Yenko's. The 400 dollar figure seems way to high to me. Is that a fact? Are there people out there putting Yenko stripes on Douglass cars to enhance their value today? Has anyone taken a Yenko/SC Canonsburg car and made it into a Douglass? Curious...BKH

**YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY** · #56 10-07-2002, 05:40 PM

Rick;
In my opinion, it goes back to the NICB info. If you buy a car that is represented as a Baldwin-Motion, and then you get the NICB info and it says Reedman Chev, do you not turn around and try to get your money back? Why? Because you would want a car that was sold new at Baldwin and sent to Motion.

In my mind, it's the same with a Yenko car. If my Yenko was sold out of Nankivell, I expect the car to be dealer txfr'd from Yenko Chev. Otherwise, without paperwork to back up a deal between Nankivell and Yenko, I don't have a Yenko car.

**Stefano** · #57 10-07-2002, 05:50 PM

Rick,
Yes, they were all paying a Royalty or Fee on the sale of each of those cars to Yenko Sports Cars, Inc. It was built into the price of the Super Car. It was a substantial premium and I would suspect that Don did everything he could to protect this Royalty or Fee.

The Douglass Situation is unique,... repeat unique. He was the only dealer in the Network which ordered the COPOs direct and then sold them to the public as Yenkos.

While the Fee situation may help some rationalize whether the cars are Yenkos or not, I feel it only goes to support the arrangement between Yenko/Douglass.

The conumer and and ultimate purchaser of the Douglass Yenko knew nothing of this arrangement and in turn it had no bearing on their purchase decision.

JoeC,
To say that the Douglass Yenkos are similar to ,or the same as a home built replica out of someones garage is well......(no further reply on that comment).

JoeC · #58 10-07-2002, 05:55 PM

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>
JoeC,
To say that the Douglass Yenkos are similar to ,or the same as a home built replica out of someones garage is well......(no further reply on that comment).

<hr></blockquote>

Did I say that? Where do you see that?
[img]/ubbthreads/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

copolocater · #59 10-07-2002, 06:01 PM

Marlin you and I know thats not always the case.When I worked at a dealer in Ambridge Pa. at least 2 to 3 times a week I did what was known as a dealer trade.Sometimes taking a car picking up one,picking up a car paying with a check,picking up a car and delivering two to numerous dealers in Western Pa..I myself did this for that dealer for 2 years.Just from that dealer alone thats over 200 cars not counting what somebody else traded to us using their people.I know this if I bought a Yenko from Jack Douglass back in 69 or bought one awhile ago thinking it was and paid extra for one I'd Have my retained attorney putting in overtime.

**sixtiesmuscle** · #60 10-07-2002, 06:10 PM

As far as written agreements, Douglass DID have the written contract to be the Yenko dealer for all of Chicagoland. In the Yenko archives, Tom uncovered a memo which pointed out the unique agreement he had with Jack Douglass. I believe it was posted the last time this subject was discussed.
As far as memories being fuzzy, I ask you, would any of the Yenko purists question Don's current statements IF he were here to share them? I think not.
I have discussed these details with Jack for over four years, long before any controversy arose, and, the story has never changed.
In the end, as I said before, reasonable people should be able to disagree, yet, appreciate that the other side has validity as well. We should have all learned by now that it is dangerous to speak in absolutes when it comes to what was done back then.

Dedicated to the Promotion and Preservation of American Muscle Cars, Dealer built Supercars and COPO cars.