1970 gto judge ram air IV

[gtopilot]

I am new to this sight, but have read through all the 1970 gto judge ram air IV postings after I received a call today from sixtiesmuscle. Mike informed me that my name and car had entered the postings. I am the Green who owns the Knafel Pontiac 1966 GTO. I have done a great deal of research on the car and Knafel Pontiac. In the process, I have spoken frequently with Bill and John Knafel, and to a lesser extent Arlen Vanke and Larry "Doc" Dixon. Let me try to clear up some of the issues that have been raised about Mr. Knafel and his racing team.

1. I have rarely found evidence to dispute what I have been told by Mr. Knafel. He loves to talk about his accomplishments and he frequently tells his stories in a manner that can be taken more than one way. A case in point. I have heard Mr. Knafel's version of the "Mystery Tornado" a 64 blown 421 GTO driven by Arnie Beswick story, and I have heard Arnie's version. They both agree on most of the facts, but have their own versions of how things actually happened. What I am saying is that after nearly 40 years it is hard to keep the facts straight!

2. Knafel did have a performance package for Pontiacs called the "Tin Indian" kit. It was very similiar to the Royal Bobcat Kit, but not marketed nearly as well.

3. I do not understand why Mr. Knafel now insists that the 63 Tempest, owned by Tim Benko, is not "Running Bear". He originally agreed that it is and Arlen Vanke has confirmed that it is, so I disagree with Mr. Knafel on this issue.

4. There is no letter from the Knafels to me concerning any sort of a commission should I decide to sell the car. However, I have received phone calls from both John and Bill Knafel concerning the issue.

5. Concerning Knafel against Royal, I have not found evidence that a Royal car ever won a race against a Knafel car. If you read the article in Super Stock magazine on the 1966 NHRA Springnationals at Bristol, TN, both the 66 "Tin Indian" GTO and the Royal "GeeTO Tiger" were there. The "Tin Indian" left as the stock eliminator. I asked Milt Shornack what happened, and he said that he had transmission problems and wasn't able to run against the "Tin Indian". Arlen Vanke said that Shornack made it a point to never stage against him. The fact is that the cars never ran against each other, but the drivers have different views on what happened. The Knafel car won C/stock against 19 other cars (including the "GeeTO Tiger") and then won Jr. Stock Eliminator against 12 other cars.

Hopefully, I have shed some light on Knafel Pontiac and Mr. Knafel.

[Steve_Hoog]

Mr Green

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!

Steve Hoog

[sixtiesmuscle]

Welcome Merle, and, thanks for the info.

[mrmuscle]

who is it that keeps telling people his stories are exaggerated? i say it is the same person who is going around promoting himself as the father of the gto. if you read his book we can assume that if it had not been for him, we would still be driving worthless boring cars. from all brands. now is the time for everyone to start doing their homework on reality and it did not take me very long at all to see that knafel was the real performer in the performance field. royal has always gotten all the attention because of the bobcat and being there in motorcity, but facts are knafel was the king of pontiac.

[tjs44]

mrmuscle,I dont believe it was the dealership but the builders and drivers that made the diff.Arlin and Arnie were the best on the east coast.On the left coast in the early 60s you had Hayden Proffit,Jess Tyree,Loyd and Carol Cox and others I cant remember.I think Anderson pontiac was VERY luck to have the quality racers in their stable.Tom

[mrmuscle]

its called a team. it was his team and they were the best obviously. but it is really funny how that the guys telling history are leaving the main part out of it. which if reality was known as to the importance and the tight friendships in business dealings of this guy, it would not surprise you to think that engineering would back door cars for him to drag race.

[DaveC68]

I'm personally not too well informed on GTO's or Pontiacs in general for that matter...but here is a link to a very interesting GTO here in my hometown. (Scroll about half way down the page)
http://www.contes.com/ccvmore.htm
This GTO thread has my head spinning...but sure makes for some entertaining reading [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beers.gif[/img]
Maybe something in the link can add some "fuel" to someones fire!

[mrmuscle]

that is a cool link and article. dont get me wrong, i am not trying to knock wangers off of his pedestal, i am merely stating a true fact that he never talks about any of the competition. i have heard him speak and he speaks like there was never anyone around that could touch anything he did or was associated with. i also have heard him state that you wouldnt believe what all went on behind closed doors, but it always involved him only. there is too much documeted proof that knafel had alot of dealings with engineering and tested their items. records document the fact that royals team couldnt hold a candle to knafels.

[Charley Lillard]

"go to knafels website that steved posted and look at the magnum 4oo detail sheet and it even says that they will put a ra v in one for you. there was also a picture of a ra 5 engine on a stand in their dealership in the goatfinder a while back."...Mr Muscle..Don't you think that maybe it would be easier for Engineering and less risk to just send a Crate RAV to Knafel and let them install it ? It sounds like they were very good at it.

[mrmuscle]

that very well could be. i dont have the answer and i am not going to say i guarantee anything like so many have. (other than never say never). pontiac never felt in necessary to consult with me on anything. (hard to believe i know lol). i am basing my belief of the cars being real on the fact that mr knafel stated this back around 1998 and this was before the cars had surfaced. he had even detailed what the purpose of both cars was. the silver car surfaced a year later and then nobody knew anything about the white/blue car until sixtiesmuscle posted that his had the same items on the phs sheet as the silver car and all of a sudden it was living proof of what mr knafel had said. i do know that if these had been cars from royal, jim wangers would have been campaigning from coast to coast that they were the real deal even without any engineering logs.

no matter if proof is ever made on these, this discussion has at least brought a lot of truth and history into the public eye that might not have ever happened.