Attention- 2002 ZL1 owners...rear wheel fitment.

[LVCamaro]

Mike,
I own a GMMG ZL1, and up til reading your series of forum posts I thought GMMG was one of the most professional conversion shops in the country. I, like others, have had a few problems with my ZL1 [my service engine light still glows constant and it won't hold idle at a stoplight with the A/C going...I could go on], but until recently I hadn't panicked about it because I felt comfortable that GMMG would rectify things. Matt was good about sending me 2 sets of replacement rear coil springs and rear tires that got chewed up by fender rash. My comfort about resolving a couple outstanding issues was strictly a result of the professional mood/attitude expressed by the staff of GMMG. But now, after reading your recent posts, I gotta say I'm both disappointed and nervous. It seems to me that your posts and "edited" posts and your profile remarks are intended to make a mockery of this board, it's moderators and it's members. To me, the really unnerving part is that Matt has remained silent, without intervention to quash your posts [in a public forum] that are so unprofessional and disrespectful. Most of the GMMG ZL1 owners are forum members and frequently visit this forum. Some have spent upwards of $100,000 for their GMMG Camaro and, as a result of your posts, are definitely reconsidering their impression of GMMG. It's obvious that you and Ray have some dirty laundry, and that's fine...but your disrespectful and condescending remarks, as a representative of GMMG, cause me to reconsider my overall opinion of GMMG. These cars are our hobby, sure, but they're serious cars that we all spent serious $$$ to buy. I like to know when I spend this kinda cake for a car that I'm dealing with a professional outfit that really cares how I like my purchase. Your attitude makes me wonder and Matt's silence really causes me pause. I presume GMMG has more conversion projects on the drawing board and I wonder how much good you're doing the buying audience with your wisea$$ comments and attitude. I can only speak for myself, but I believe I'll check my hole cards.

SS
[while you're making 800 HP at the crank, is the service engine light glowing?]

[matt murphy]

Well, I wasn't going to say anything here because it is childish. GRB made a post that made no sense . . . Mike got upset and people here are ripping on him for not knowing anything about this web site. I believe he made up for his comments in his last post. As far as me being silent, I have a lot of stuff to do. We are a small company and every one of us care very much about these cars. If your car has problems, we will pick them off one or two at a time. I look at this post like my old boss used to call, "Open and Vigorous Communication." I still believe that is sometimes the best way for a man to get his points across. Come out and say what is on your mind and be done with it. Mike said his peace and people here want to keep adding fuel to the fire.

We have built over 535 Camaros and Firebirds over the past 48 months and we could all use a break here, but we are determined to keep going and keep building the best damn, fastest, craziest modern day muscle cars our dealers and customers ask us to build. We have the best people in the country helping us and when things get tense around here and we see silly stupid posts, it bothers us. If GRB had a serious issue he could call us and not make a post like he did (by the way, GRB, I got a page the other day but it only had 6 numbers in it, and I'll bet it was your page, can you try again). Why would you guys here be able to help him on a car that we built. Jumping on Mike like people here have, only shows your frustration coming out. He is someone that is brand new to this web site, and he didn't realize what he was doing wrong, I saw it, but like all growing adults, if they fall off the horse, they will get back on, and their dad ripping on them doesn't help anything. Mike may not have the best of mannors here, but he has built every one of these 427 Camaros, and that is 46 in the past 11 months, and that is over 1 a week. There is no doubt that some of them have problems, but this project was created by us and Mike and our engine team to cater to you guys and what you want. Two years ago there was no 427 C5R LS6 dirived motor available to the public, and no one had a clue how to tune them when they came out. We have worked with four different companies to try to tune these 600HP RACE MOTORS. These are not street motors, but built f_._._._._.n race motors. They are not 450HP carburated 427 big blocks that have been around for 40 years. This technology is new, and YES it is frustrating for us because we are very anal when it comes to making things perfect, but to keep the project going, we have to learn by our experiences. The latest 427 motors we are delivering are running far better that the earlier ones and WE WILL get to every 427 owner and have their cars running the best they can. We are working on the last three 427 ZL1's right now and will be moving to our next phase 427s by the first of the year, but I promise all of the ZL1 owners and GMMG car owners that we will never stop trying to improve things here so that your cars can be updated and running like the latest ones are, THE BEST DAMN BUILT 427 MOTORS IN THIS COUNTRY.

You can ridicule Mike for letting off a little steam for someone that asked the wrong question, on the wrong site, but take a look at that 427 Motor in his Grumpys Toy ZL1, and right now, it is probably the most exotic built, naturally aspirated, 427 C5R motor in the county, running in a street car. Anyone can make that power with turbos, nitrous or superchargers. That car and motor impressed the hell out of Grumpy Jenkins, and that takes a lot for a 20 something year old to do. And NO, his check engine light isn't on either. And please do not speak for everyone here, if they want to reconsider their impression of GMMG then they can let us know themselves. Don't put me on the spot and expect me to come out here answering like a damn pansy. I said my peace on this post early on and figured it was all I needed to say. You challanged me to speak up and I have . . . I am sorry if this offends anyone here, but DON'T rip on my guys, say what you want about me, but speak bad about my guys and our company and I'll be in your face defending both of them. We build the best damn cars in the country and I'll stand behind every one of them. After 535 cars, even I expect to have a few hickups with some of them.

This is the first time I have ever raised my voice here or anywhere and the last time. If most of you will forgive me then I will continue in a small way to help others here with questions they have, when my time allows. I have great respect for this web site and the people on it. Those of you that know me know that it takes a lot to piss me off, but even I need to let off a little steam every now and then. Thanks LVCAMARO for helping me relieve a little built up frustration . . . and please do not take this as a personal slam against you. It isn't. I have had a lot of stuff on my mind and your post gave me the opportunity to let off a little steam. I respect you and what you have to say. You guys have a great opportunity with this web site and sorry to have gone off like I did. I am sorry we have let you down with your car; but, both Mike and I do realize what it takes to invest 100K in one of these cars, because we both have one. Neither by the way are finished like we want because we are too busy working on other cars. We will get to your car and get it running like you expect, and like we expect very soon.

[CWilliams]

Get some rest Matt...posting at 4:03am!!!!, when do you sleep?.

[GRB]

First, I don't think it is in the best interest of us ZL1 owners to continue this in a public forum.

Matt, Jim Fikse called me yesterday, and as I understood him, had already spoken to you. Lamar and Jim will talk today and resolve the issue. It is NO longer a problem. And btw my first post made perfect sense. Read it again. Or call Lamar for more details. He can also explain why we have the same problem with the moser unit. I can't. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] I re-entered the correct phone number a minute after the first call. I realize you stay quite busy!

I think Jim and Lamar's concern (my opinion only!) is that for street use and street tires the current fitment is fine and safe.

As for the attacks by this employee, his first "series" of attacks was on LS1.tech.

For the record I think the ZL1 was and still is a great concept. GMMG did a great job of organizing a massive undertaking. A few glitches are to be expected. What muscle car hasn't had them? Lamar's 69 ZL1 dropped an intake valve on the drive home from the dealer!!

[DjD]

From someone not involved but reading what is posted... GRB posted and it wasn't taken as negative toward GMMG or the ZL1. From his first post it's obvious he was given information that led him to feel there was enough of a problem it warrented letting others know there could be a problem. It didn't sound like anything more than an expression of concern for fellow owners. He even stated he wasn't placing any blame... Matt it's obvious by your first reply you didn't see what the problem could be...

<font color="brown"> Sidebar: There are two kinds of problems, physical and percived, physical are easy to identify and fix (the tire is flat). Percived problems are a different animal but to the person having the problem are just as real as a flat tire. To the person tasked to resolve the problem, percived problems are often met with as a pain in the ass and not given the attention they should. This is of most importance to providing a service!! Remember the old saying "The customer is always right"? </font>

Matt you did well trying to get to the root of the problem and you and GRB had several good exchanges until Mike stepped in. He didn't introduce himself but acted very defensive over what GRB had to say. It was enough to provoke a moderator to speak up!! Granted at this point GRB and Mike were the only ones that knew of their previous history on the LS1 site it was still not a very good way to make a point. Mike then scoffed at the request to fill in his profile and then proceeded to edit his own words and declair he was banned from the site in a rather childish way.

Mikes reception here has nothing to do with GRB and the good folks here were able to put 2 and 2 together and figure out Mike = GMMG. At that point readers are going [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif[/img] and Mike comes back and complies with the moderators request but has to get a lick in, in doing so! He also makes an attempt to turn all this on GRB as a pot stir'r instead of just moving on... I'm sure from Steve's reply that this is where folks are getting the sour taste and where any question of GMMG's integerty is coming from.

Your long vent and lashing out at the folks here in defense of Mike sure doesn't put GMMG in any better light with folks reading this thread. No one questioned Mikes ability as an engine builder. It's his ability as a company representitive that needs to be addressed and maybe yours too. Please take that constructivly I know we all get stressed at times but when and where we vent really has an impact on folks. Had you come here and started a thread and vented it would have been taken way different than venting in the middle of an already volital thread... Your reply after Steves post should have been one of repair not dispare.

I'm not going to go lerking around LS1.com to get more on this between GRB and Mike but you might want to to get some insight into how GMMG is being represented to possible customers...

[GRB]

Sorry to have left this issue just hanging out there but I've had the flu all week and have barely left the house.
I'll see Lamar (and Ryan Young, who I don't know) and see what he found out from Jim Fikse. I'd also like to know why (and if) Ryan was unaware of the problem when Lamar and his son Robbie spent more than an hour showing me exactly what the problem was.

Hopefully this will be a problem that is unique to my car and no other.

[matt murphy]

GRB,

I am 20 minutes away from Lamar's. If I can help, I can come over and see what you guys are doing to the 12 bolt and help out. I understand you want the Vette brakes on the rear end you guys are using. I am sure we can figure out a way to do that. If it is OK with Lamar and Robbie I can come over tomorrow . . . if we can all get together that would be great.

[GRB]

I'm going to Lamar's sometime after noon. E-mail or call me and I'll give you an exact time. You will like what you see him doing with the C5R engine. If I don't hear from you I will page you around noon from my cell phone.

[matt murphy]

Page me (404-726-7574) or try me at work (770-592-6261) after 10am tomorrow. Long night tonight . . . I have to put 100 miles on some 427 Camaros to break them in . . . Someone has to do it . . . I know tough job . . . [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif[/img]

If anyone sees a 427 Camaro cruising around the perimeter of Atlanta tonight, don't tempt me, you'll loose . . . [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/haha.gif[/img] at least until I run into you testing your 427 Camaro . . . [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggthumpup.gif[/img]

[GRB]

Looked at the fitment issue with LWA today. There is NO problem with the rear ends and axles installed by GMMG. The issue is with the Moser. When I was there a few weeks ago the moser was installed but the car was not on a lift so we could not see the the axle hub. Gregg, who helped Robbie and Ryan evidently misunderstood which measurement Lamar was referring to. It appears that Moser machined off the portion of the hub that should fit at least one half inch into the center of the wheel. Why we don't know. Lamar will talk to them and find out.

If you install a Moser unit (Matt told me today that the Strange does not have this problem) be sure to specify long axle hubs. If you have installed a Moser have it checked.

To repeat - There is no problem whatsoever with the Fikses or the GMMG rear end. Matt got to LWA after I left so he may have something to add.