COPO dip!!!!!!!!!

[Enoch]

Reinstalling a trim tag is just another part of restoration. With reasearch and an original set of rivets it will be undetectable. I have done dozens all from cars that have been dipped or blasted.
To say that a car that has been dipped can not be a daily driver is not true too many people think your car is going to magically continue to turn into a pile of rust after being dipped. After a car is dipped treatments can be applied so that it will neutralize the dipping process and to treat and coat the metal to stabilize and protect it.
I would be more concerned with leaving rust untreated inside a frame rail or between panels!!
Rich

[Jeff H]

MikeA, I'm just saying that if the car was a daily driver and you had it dipped, you would definitely want to make sure you get all the metal covered with paint of rust proofing in all the nooks and crannies. And Joel, this car is also a mostly rust free CA car. The driver's floor had a little bit of rust, but the rest of the body is incredibly clean. Blasting the body will end up with media stuck in all the crevices where 2 pieces of metal come together and you'll spend as much time and labor getting it all cleaned out if you can get it all. Plus, once you've exposed the rust with blasting, you still need to neutralize and treat it. The chemical stripping process already does that for you.

[Pantera]

I personally am a big fan of plastic bead blasting. when done right they can take the car down to the original primer and stop there. I have had vettes done this way and then used a "DA" sander to do the rest. There was little or no dust in the car and I was able to see where stress cracks in the body were and repair it.

A talented operator can take the paint off layer by layer if that is the way you wanted it done.

The plus side of this process is that the plastic beads deform and do not shatter and they can be picked up and actually reused by the operator. You can then do a high pressure blow out of body crevaces and you still have a easy job to clean up before painting.

I think that chemical diping sould be a Last choice and only if the car has a great deal of rust-out showing. I am affraid that 10 years down the road the dipped cars will start to rust out again. They lose the rust inhibitor in the nooks and crannys that the factory dip process puts on them. But this is where you have to decide what you want your car to look like and do you want to have to do it all over 10 or 15 years down the road.

Of course that beggs up a even bigger question and I guess it is all a matter of "if" you plan on just fixing it up just to sell, or to keep it for yourself and your family for many years to come.

The rust in body cavitys is a real problem and I would think that you could use mirrors to locate problems and then do them by hand. If you have a nice LA car with little rust showing, why not spot blast the rust that shows and be sure it is sealed well and see how it holds up.

Someday down the road the undipped cars could be bringing a premium. Also they are making all kinds of progress in every facet of restoration and who knows what will be discovered in the future?

Guys we all need to remember one thing. These cars that we love so well are going to outlive us. We are just collectors & caretakers of a piece of history. I for one want to enjoy my modest collection for the few years that I have left. When my health gets bad I will sell them to someone that will take care of them and let them be shown. I sincery hope that they are still around 200 years from now. I have no children to leave mine to but if you are lucky to have someone that will love them as much as you, then they will be responsable for your cars when you are gone.

[YENKO DEUCE REGISTRY]

I'm adoptable

[MikeA]

Jeff,

Thanks for the explanation. I couldn't figure it out.

[Enoch]

Larry, I have cars done 18-20 years ago that were dipped and have no problemn with them even today. I understand your point of view and respect it but think of it this way.

The rust inhibitor you speak of is doing no good even if the slightest bit of rust has begun in those nooks and crannys, and sand blasting does'nt get in there either, and pouring all the tea in china (naval jelly, rust more, and the likes) in there to try and neutralize it will not do as good a job as submersion. And hear's why, in order for the "rust more" to work it must encase the the affected area and remain wet for 18-24 hours. And the jellys are too thick to get between panels and it only "converts" the rust and does not remove it leaving a bunch of rust tombs (or time bombs) in the shell.

Dipping a shell in an alkalyne solution eats away and completely removes the rust even from the areas not visible to the eye. And the best part is that it stays submerged for 3-4 days letting the chemicals do thier job. The alkalyne is not thick like the jellys and can creep in everywhere leaving nothing but clean metal. Once the shell is neutralized from the alkalyne you then can shoot epoxy primer into the seams letting it run out, completely enveloping all spot welds the on lap joints. Also as added protection after the car is painted you can repeat the process with a liquid wax you spray in the hidden recesses. This wax is also self healing meaning if it is scratched it will cover the exposed area protecting it again.

Also the rust inhibitors used by the factory are not as good as the products we have at our disposal today.

So would you rather, given the choice have a car restored looking pretty on the outside but with some rust, however slight hidden in the seams and unseen areas waiting to rear it's ugly head, or have a car that is restored looking pretty on the outside and knowing you did the best you could to preserve the integrity of the inner structure where all the rust has been removed and better rust inhibitors reapplied over clean metal?


Just something to thik about. Rich.


P.S. please excuse the spelling and run
on sentences

[Pantera]

Rich I see your point of view on this. You are very correct. I was thinking of the car in question that was showing very little rust that it in some way just might be worth more as a unrestored (dipped) timepiece. I am more of a corvette man even though I have a couple of Camaro's I do not run into the rust problems that those of you that are in the northern states have to deal with. Most of the dipped cars that I saw back when I ran my shop were left like a beer can and so thin that you were afraid to pop the clutch on one or it might flex the quarter panels too much and leave a dent in them.

I am a little behind on all this as I quit messing with collector cars and went SCCA Vette and Can-AM racing back in '80 and of course there are more and much better ways to do things and with better products avaible today.

I still love to see a survivor car left alone till it just has to be totally disasambled to protect it.
Almost all of my cars are low mileage midwest cars that are just grimy and not rust buckets from the northern salt on the roads.

[Jeff H]

Larry, you're thinking of cars that have been acid dipped to reduce the metal and lighten the cars. This type of dipping just strips the old paint and bondo off the cars. The metal does not lose any of it's thickness or strength unless the car is nothing but rust holding it together. Even on rust free cars, this method of stripping is far superior to blasting with sand or beads. Just look at the pictures I posted and you can see how clean the entire body is. I think in the end you will have a better finished product with stripping vs blasting.

[Pantera]

I see what you mean. Way back when that I first saw the process the people doing the diping were Idiots and they used too strong of solution I guess. Sounds like they have learned alot over the last 20 years. (shaking my head when I realize that much time has gone by)


I do hate to see the vin and cowl tags being removed from anything though, even just to dip it.

Now just ask me something about a Valkyrie motorcycle. Those I know something about.

[Kurt S]

Talk about overkill and wasted $$, IMO.
For a little rust, I'd just blast the area and move on.
Soda or media blasting works great for stripping paint.

You don't need the metal to look perfect and virgin to paint it, you just need to prep it properly. Just like any normal high $$ paint job.

So there's a little surface rust hidden inside some area (say rear frame rails). Where's it going? It's not like the car is going to see salt and moisture to help activate the rust. Look at the underside of the dash and see how (surface) rusty that is and it isn't like it's falling apart.....

Now, if it was a rusty hull that had bulging seams, then I'd dip.
Roger Gibson restored many a $$ car, he's only dipped one last I knew. A L89 raptop, say I think it's still around.