Barrett Jackson Las Vegas

[JimM]

2 cents?

It's always big fun when a car comes back to life.

I remember one rebody discussion a couple years ago when BOTH cars came back to life! You guys remember that one right? It was a copo or a zl1 or something. We were all seeing double for a while. Pretty sure it started kinda like this one, 'cept in that case, 1 car had the vin and cowl tags, and the other had the hidden vins.

Never heard the end or truth of that one, won't on this one either.

I do really like the attitude of "SAVING" the rare "CAR" tho. (LMFAO!)
When they die, they die.

[SSJunkie68-69]

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If you take the VIN from one body and put it on another IT IS A FELONY. If you sell, buy, trade a VIN tag IT IS A FELONY. (I know I am beginning to sound like Jeff Foxworthy here...You might be a felon if...)



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After following this since Saturday on this as well as the other sites.....this had me busting out laughing. Nice post~

Mark C- Your comments are right on as well!

It's pretty clear what happened here as well as a bunch of others that we may never hear about due to lack of exposure. As a group of people - who are ardent hobbyist - we need to make sure we "cut out" this type of thing from continuing. Too many people get burned and it's something that you may never recover from. Call me old school, but to me a Man's word is his bond. If that bond is broken it's very difficult to fix. That's something my Dad taught me long ago and still preaches to this day. As I posted earlier, what happened here happened to some major players and if it can happen to them it can easily happen to any one of us. We need sites like this, Team Camaro and CRG with members who are willing to put their foot down and say enough is enough with this type of !

[The Dude]

Early Vettes have a VIN tag that is screwed on with two phillips head. Is removing those screws to paint the car a crime? What happens when said painter removes the tag and loses it? I personally know of a car that that happened to. A new VIN tag was made by a company and it was reapplied to the car. What would you classify this car as.

I also know of a 65 post 442 that was sold with a hardtop VIN at Holt Auto Sales in Michigan. Cowl tag was right but VIN was wrong and had rusty round rivets holding it on. Car still exists and owner knows of the VIN issue. In his case the car has the wrong VIN and the wrong title. Should a car like this should be destroyed?

[COPO 70 RS/Z28]

[ QUOTE ]
Thats the thing, it was sold as original. One of the most documented original Zs out there. Personally I wouldnt care if it was rebodied. Choosing between a car with 95% Chinese repro metal and 5% (cowl where tags are attached) real and one thats been rebodied with a shell made by GM, Ill take the rebody. So tell me what one is more real.

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One thing to consider for those (most of us) who love their cars and also enjoy the fact that we can enjoy something which is a viable investment.

One of the reasons that these cars can be an investment is that the supply remains constant while the demand increases as the population increases. Now an added component is that there may be a certain natural attrition of these due to theft, fire, flood etc. which actually slowly decreses the supply. Now if cars can just be recreated by trading vins etc. and rebodies and be accepted as "the real thing" the value of the lot as a whole has just decreased. The more this practice would be accepted the less unique and "rare" these cars would be until they were worth no more than any other car.

I know this argument is somewhat simplistic and there is much more to the car thing than money, but you gotta admit it make you think

[x Baldwin Motion]

so if you see some tags for sale on PeeBait write down the numbers !!! before the pics are deleted!!!




IF YOU ARE DRIVING A CAR WITH THESE NUMBERS, ASK THE PREVIOUS OWNER WHY THE TAGS WERE OFF!!
(I'm no 69 expert and don't know what these tags are from.)

[Racefan]

This topic has been discussed here before. I recall taking part in discussions about rumors of people rebodying Yenkos in the mid-West in the 1980s. Wonder how may "original" Yenkos are out there which have exactly the same issue? I remember at the time, someone said that it was a fairly common practice to rebody these cars back "in the day".
As a matter of fact, I am pretty sure I made some enemies for my participation on that thread.

We won't hear anything about these though. As was discussed then, there are those who know of the cars with "questionable history" BY VIN. This info will not be shared for multiple reasons (money, fear of litigation, don't want to hurt a friend, etc, etc).

All one can do is make the right friends, ask the right questions, and always be prepared that you just made the wrong purchase of a car with "questionable" history.

My question has always been this: If 6 people in a group know about the rebody, and no one speaks up....are they all partially liable for not coming forward with the information? I would think that it would be exactly the same as seeing a crime take place and not coming forward with information, meaning you would have some culpability.

I'll go back to lurking now.....

[RamAirDave]

[ QUOTE ]
Early Vettes have a VIN tag that is screwed on with two phillips head. Is removing those screws to paint the car a crime? What happens when said painter removes the tag and loses it? I personally know of a car that that happened to. A new VIN tag was made by a company and it was reapplied to the car. What would you classify this car as.

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It would be a questionable car.

I don't know the exact legalities, but straight R&R (temporary and doesn't go to another car) in the process of resto isn't going to be prosecuted as far as I know. It happens often in the case of upper dash panel replacement and maybe (in vette cases, I don't know) in paint process. For paint, I would rather it be masked rather than removed.

For whatever case, "losing" the removed tag is inexcusable IMO. That's a pretty important piece and great care should be taken as far as securing (not losing) it.

As far as the new VIN tag being made, well... I would wager that the guy that bought the new VIN tag would not say where it was purchased, nor would the tag maker ever advertise. Very illegal to manufacture VIN tags.

[The Dude]

Post deleted by TK-65

[RamAirDave]

So the guy is openly making VIN plates?

Care to provide a link?

[Les Quam]

Witnesses to a crime cannot be prosecuted for not coming forward. What your probably thinking of is a material witness warrant which is issued for a witness that ignores a subpoena after being duly served.

Friends that know of a VIN change cannot be held liable unless they participated in the process of altering the cars identity or later hiding the fact. Mere presence or knolwedge of a crime does not constitute a conspiracy it requires an act in furtherance of the conspiracy. This issue can change when someone knows a crime involving the public safety is ABOUT to occur. But that is more complicated and doesn't relate to this matter.

This car needs to be destroyed because its identity has been altered causing someone to pay 125K in reliance on the fraud. That is just one of the reasons the laws against vehicle identity change exist. This car has been so artfully altered it even fooled a recognized camaro expert who inspected it. If it is not destroyed at some point in the future it again will be sold to a buyer in good faith. The laypersons concept of Buyer beware doesn't cover active acts of identity change, it relates to checking for rust etc.

Almost all states make provisions for lost vehicle identity tags and also for necessary alterations. In those cases the State comes out and personally supervises the work or the car is brought in and clsoely supervised. I had to change out a speedometer on a 97 Porsche a few years back and had to jump through a lot of hoops to get the state to certify the mileage from old to new speedo and the change was supervised by the state.

This case is different than a camaro that left the factory with a 307 engine and the ZL-1 option or other rare options which were later added. Those cars are clones or tributes but their original identities should remain intact. Its unfortunate in Chevy world there is no factory docs like PHS for Pontiacs or a Marti report for Fords to determine a cars original factory options.

This car will not be re-sold if the allegations turn out to be true. Both state and Federal authorities have been notified of the information contained on this thread and other forum threads and have acknowledged reciept of the information and are opening an investigation. The NICB boys are relentless when it comes to cases like this. I think that this car has been sold for the last time assuming everything is true.