Barrett Jackson Las Vegas

[chevelleheart]

Too Funny Keith !!!! This turned into quite a good read !

[704EVER]

It's getting to be an even better read over on Team Camaro!!

[x Baldwin Motion]

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It's getting to be an even better read over on Team Camaro!!

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http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=4432.105

.....and now it is clear that no one is safe from a rebody or restamp.

[Keith Tedford]

The picture of the firewall VIN stamp section, that was supposedly sold, showed a piece that wasn't all that big. If you strip the paint around the heater box area, I'm pretty sure you will see the different coloration of the metal where the welding was done....if it was done. There are lots of body men that can make the weld so smooth that it is invisible with the paint on. Sounds like all these fancy documents of authenticity that have been sold aren't worth the paper they are printed on. Verified history and personal inspection are really the only things that count. Even then can you be sure? Sad what greed does.

[Bad Brad]

They never were safe from a rebody or restamp. And Jerry just had a professional write up on that site and professionaly dodge that bullit.
The whole thing smells like rotten fish.

[sYc]

Something to keep in mind, when looking at an appraisal/inspection report, make note of who requested it, seller or buyer. Such as with this car, a seller can dictate what is, and is not, inspected/noted. Most times a buyer will want a much more thorough exam then the seller.

[carguy]

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From Camaro research group thread: http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?P...32.msg29172#new
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I am sure this has been a great learning experience for all of us. Like many others, but probably none of you, when I read a description for a car in the past and it said that the car was certified and documented by Jerry M. dumb me assumed this meant that the drive train was original and there were no questions about the trim tag. It never dawned on me that he was certifying anything else or perhaps nothing at all other than he made a report on the car. It was certainly my conclusion as well as many of my experienced car friends that read the description on the green Z that a certification meant a certification when we were in Vegas for the auction. My thought was his certification was similar to the good housekeeping seal. Similar thoughts for mopars documented and inspected by Galen.

Thanks to this thread I have learned a very valuable lesson that cost me nothing. This is that a certification apparently only means that Jerry has inspected the car. Nothing more. The thread has taught me a great lesson to dig deeper and really pay attention to the report. Same goes for Galen or any other expert.

It seems to me though that when an expert inspects a car and it meets a certain criteria it only then has the right to be called certified or? If it is does not meet that criteria it should not be allowed to be called certified or ? To me that criteria should at a minimum include requirements for an original driveline which includes the block plus verification of the authenticity of the trim tag. It would be really neat if the leading experts in the industry that provide these services would take from this experience the need to create a standard explanation for what they have found that is clearly understood within the hobby.

It is similar to the claim from some Pontiac owners that their car is PHS Documented. The un-initiated would think the car was restored to the PHS specs. However, when one digs deeper through the PHS report it is not at all unusual to find that the car has been painted a different color than what it was born with, options such as A/C, Special Hurst packages, power steering, etc. has been added by the restorer. It is also kind of scary to see a yellow high hi-lighter in the seller’s pocket.

Same goes for the matching numbers claim. What exactly is matching numbers? Many of us are afraid to call even an original survivor car matching numbers for fear someone will find some obscure component that is not correct such as a wiper blade, cigarette lighter, etc. that could technically unwind a sale. Yet we continue to see re-stamped cars called matching numbers.

In the end I realize it is Buyer Beware. However, if Certifications or whatever you want to call them are to mean anything I really feel they should be based on solid criteria. Otherwise, why would anyone want to pay for a "certification" especially in light of what we have learned here? When someone that paid the expert for his services misuses the word certified or ? then they should be called out.

The car hobby is my passion. I really enjoy seeing others have that same passion. However, when one gets sucked in on some of the shady descriptions seen today and then finds out the truth it sucks the passion out of the most fervent hobbyist. With this forum and others plus some help from our experts perhaps we might be able to stop some of this abuse.

Just my 2 cents.

[Keith Tedford]

I don't know for a fact, but I would think that the PHS information comes from the shipping list microfilm as does the GM of Canada info. If a person had the time, it would be interesting to follow the paper trail and talk to people to find out about some of these cars. A friend, after selling his 1968 SD 396 Beaumont in 1969, decided to track it down 35 years later. Turned out the last owner lived less than 20 miles from where he lived. Over the years the car had gone to western Canada and back. Unfortunately the car had been parted out. End of story for this one, Others have had more success. Fortunately. http://good-times.webshots.com/photo...01686729nuwJVV

[mockingbird812]

Keith,

I never tire of gazing at the original photos of your awesome CS COPO Chevelle. Wow!

[Shevelle]

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Obviously no one should condemn Jerry M. without his report being displayed..
He's not a stupid man and his concerns for this specific car also disclaimer for circumstances such as this on any car he inspects is most likey included in his report?.

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Jerry's Report

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