Scammers Busted

[CamaroNOS]

Mark,

Just as heads up, you may just want to try and re-read the article regarding the bogus LS 6 Chevelle again.

There is no mention of a Canadian tampering with any VIN tag.......anywhere! Therefor I am not sure how or why you even put those thoughts into this thread. The bogus VIN tag was ONLY uncovered at a NCRS Corvette show in London Ontario, Canada.

The car was sold by an individual from Columbus Nebraska to a unsuspecting buyer in Iowa.

Regarding your comment about "If only we could get the list of repro vin tags sold to Canadians. It is legal for Canadians to buy vin tags from the US trim tag mfg. if you have a title in your name". What, where did this come from Mark? It is no more legal/illegal for Canadians to buy them as it is Americans. Pls get the facts straight.
As a matter of fact, it appears that Americans can also purchase bogus trim tags as well, as per this fiasco with the Chevelle.

Regarding your comment about "and we know how hard those Canadian titles are to get!" First of all, we do not have "Canadian titles", we have provincial titles, much like your state title. Secondly, it appears that you are referencing a few cars that have been resurected from thin air with the use of older GM of Canada documentation. Yes, this has happened, I will not dispute that fact. I think many of us on this site are WELL aware of the culprits and have identified several well know individuals from Quebec and Ontario alone. I am aware of U.S. cars that are bogus as well. The problem exists on both sides of the border.

We Canadians and fellow muscle car enthusiats go out of our way to expose these "pieces of work" who create cars from thin air every time it presents itself.

There are a lot of benefits to Canadian cars. One being that GM of Canada will provide detailed (non biased) documentation regarding the dealer, delivery date and options of a Canadian sold-new Chevrolet. Secondly, atleast in Ontario, the MTO (Ministry of Transportation of Ontario) which I suspect your equivalent would be the DOT, provides for a fee of $20.00, a detailed list of previous Ontario owners, all the way back to 1973. That was the year that the MTO started to keep this data base. Keep in mind, that this information can be used in reverse to verify a real car.

So armed with this critical info., you now can easily contact the previous owners (with the help of the internet) and verify the history of the vehicle. Remember, EVERY CAR HAS A HISTORY! If you encounter a car that has no paper trail regarding it's history, run for the hills. And it does not matter which side of the border you are on.

I have done this procedure with all of my cars and it is wonderfull experience. It is surprising all the historical information one can acquire from previous owners. I have learned that people love to talk about their old cars.

In summary, I truely enjoy and respect what we all do here on this site. It is comforting to know we all have this deep passion for cars......ONLY REAL CARS.

[Lynn]

I am not going to answer for Mark. But... I doubt he meant anything personal.
I am guessing he was referring to the guy in Canada who registered five (yes, 5) of the 69 ZL1 cars. All five had been MIA for years, with no one being able to find a trail. Fortunately, someone discovered it and made it public, so those fake cars will be pretty hard to peddle... unless he finds an uninformed buyer. I believe it is just a coincidence that the guy was Canadian. Lots of states in the U.S. where the same thing could be done, albeit maybe with a little more difficulty.

Some cars have almost no trail, or little at all. Example: my car was purchased by my brother in 1975. I purchased it from him in 1976. The Oklahoma Tax Commission has a record of me owning the car, but not my brother. Seems they updated to a more modern computer system in 1978 and lost many records by accident. Not all records are lost. I was able to trace the owner history on an old Dodge back to the mid 60's.

Yes, it is legal in 49 states to purchase and swap a trim tag. Only Oklahoma has outlawed it. I have offered my services (free) to assist any one in another state that would like to present a case to lawmakers showing WHY every state needs to enact similar legislation. I have had no takers.

[Ryan1969Chevelle]

I LIKE this Post.

Oops forgot this isn't Facebook.

Ryan

Proud Canadians, Who Knew?

PS: CamaroNOS, you are invited to come car shopping with me any day of the week, you have "the facts straight" my friend.

[67BelAir427]

CamaroNOS,
I agree completely. Thanks for setting the record straight.

CamaroMB, Mark Bulaw, I admire your relentless efforts to ferret out these "air cars" built from Canadian documents. I know you speak from experience, as the owner of a car with both MTO history and GM Canada documentation.

According to the MTO history on your own Cortez Silver COPO, it's ownership history includes not once, but twice, the owner of the Canadian body shop who was working on what you believe to be a bogus ZL1 Camaro. You have got to question the integrity of a shop owner who photographs another customer's car, and shares those photos with others? Personally, I would not want that person's name showing up in my cars "owner history".

According to your Canadian documents, your car was originally delivered to a GM dealer that is less than 5 miles from where most of the Canadian "air cars" have been created. I can guarantee that the VIN # of any COPO delivered to that dealer was well known to the the creators of these "air cars".

We all want to rid the hobby of fake cars, air cars, rebodies ,and bogus restorations.

I did not see the results of the most recent Mecum Auction, did you sell your COPO? If you did, then I apologize for referring to it as "your car".

[quik9r]

This is the MTO report.

[Ryan1969Chevelle]

Tell me more, these shops are very close to here.

Ryan

[camaromb]

It is nice to see a Canadian Copo with real history. I had owned this Canadian Copo since 2003 and sold it at the fall Mecum 2011. There are no issues with this car, unless you consider owning a car twice a crime. I talked to Ray Kuntz who owned the car in '73 and I had great vintage pics from him, crazy custom paint back then.

This body shop DID NOT take photos of a customer's car and pass them on. The photographs of the supposed ZL1 # 48 were supplied by the car owner himself along with his no-history title, bill of sale and other documents. This shop owner is of the highest integrity, a rare commodity today.

Although, it does brings up the question of integrity. Do you just let the fraud continue, just pass it on to be someone else's problem?

I know nothing about the vehicles that started this thread. Some missed the point of the ease at which some Canadians can register cars from this air, as referenced by the 5 ZL1s registered on one day. That did happen, its just another instance of easy fraud.

Yes, Canadians can get new vin tags for cars from the trim tag supplier. That is true. As it has been said, the Canadian docs are great but you still need good owner history. Like some Canadian Copos currently here in the US, a previous Alabama title always brings up questions.

I always thought it was good to protect the integrity of the good cars. Maybe we all should just pretend everyone is honest and all cars are as represented. Sorry, I lost my rose colored glasses years ago.

Mark

[Ryan1969Chevelle]

I am going to get an MTO record for my car, it should show myself and the previus owner who brought it up to Canada from SC.

I assume a small fee will be required.

Thanks for posting the report, I didn't know that was available.

Ryan

[enio45]

This guy DUSH scammed a buddy of mine on some parts- said they were GM, but ended up as repo - and never return a call etc - stuffed the guy for 3K

[CamaroNOS]

Quote....

"I always thought it was good to protect the integrity of the good cars. Maybe we all should just pretend everyone is honest and all cars are as represented. Sorry, I lost my rose colored glasses years ago".

That sums it all up. I know we all share the same passion for these cars, that I am confident of. Thank you!

I agree with you 100%, ditch the rose colored glasses, stop the pretending and lets hunt down and expose the bad guys.

They need to go away.