Honesty in auctions.

[lowmile]

If you had first hand knowledge that a major point on a car was being misrepresented in an upcoming auction, what would you do?

[1970Bluel78]

I would want someone to tell me. In a way like. I'm not 100 percent sure but you might want to recheck the info on.....whatever item. These are big buck cars and honesty is high on my list

[carnut4life]

Originally Posted by 1970Bluel78

I would want someone to tell me. In a way like. I'm not 100 percent sure but you might want to recheck the info on.....whatever item. These are big buck cars and honesty is high on my list

I agree completely.

If I knew something like that with 100% certainty I'd let the auction company know so they could investigate it before the auction.

[Pro Stock John]

I know I'd want to hear about your concern as long as it was documented and not speculative.

[William]

I have attended 28 collector car auctions over the years. IMHO this is a serious situation, primarily concerning ‘60s- ‘70s muscle cars. I have noted problems at nearly every auction.

It is impossible to do any sort of comprehensive examination at an auction. You are expected to accept the claims of the consignor, for which the auction company bears no responsibility. Even with limited access, I have seen reproduction documents, reproduction body tags, VIN tags that have been removed and re-installed.

When the factory VIN tag installation has been breached, there is no simple manner of determining if it has been re-installed on the original body structure. I have seen several cars noted as having been re-bodied on the hard card, but they sometimes phrase it so as not to use the term ‘re-body’. Most cars have confidential VINs [con VIN] stamped in somewhat inaccessible areas of the vehicle. Viewing them may require minor disassembly; the restoration process often covers them with paint. Many DMVs will examine the con VIN on cars brought in from other states. When they don’t match, you have a problem. They may impound the car, usually require a state-assigned VIN tag. Some states will require it for a tag with non-OE rivets. Some early VIN tags were spot-welded to the body.

One auction company leads the industry in having a staff of inspectors. They vet cars prior to the auction. Discrepancies will require changes to the descriptions. Major problems may result in the car being rejected. They are Marque experts but that only goes so far. All their consignments now have this statement at the bottom of the on-line vehicle description, regardless of vintage.

VIN NOTICE: DEPENDING ON THE STATE OF REGISTRATION OF THE BUYER, THE VEHICLE MAY REQUIRE AN INSPECTION AND BE SUBJECT TO A STATE-ISSUED VIN AND/OR OTHER REQUIREMENTS OF THAT STATE.

[SS427]

I was at a Mecum auction at Indy several years ago and looked over a 1970 LS6 Chevelle. Every major component on the car was a restamp and the paperwork was all fabricated. It was not until it went across the block that I learned they were selling it as a real car with original drivetrain and paperwork. Because of the color, it garnered a lot of attention from buyers. I was standing next to the bidder who ending up winning the car for $180k but felt I could not legally say a word to him unless he looked at me and asked me the question of which he had 24 hours to do so in. It really bothered me to stand by and let it happen but I was afraid of legal action or even being a part of a suit later if I spoke up. I did try and hint to him but he was too excited and never took the hint. This is why I continually tell people who spend big money on these cars to hire one of a few people that can inspect these cars and give them an honest opinion but more often then not, my phone rings AFTER the auction. By then it is too late.

[njsteve]

Here's an interesting thread on the E-Body site right now. An alleged VIN swap/restamp/rebodied Cuda for sale at a dealer.

https://forum.e-bodies.org/cuda-and-.../msg280892#new

[Stefano]

Originally Posted by lowmile

If you had first hand knowledge that a major point on a car was being misrepresented in an upcoming auction, what would you do?

Fraud sucks at any level.

[Sean]

HUGE consequences for a seller. I know of 6 cases seller's misrepresented car's. Honesty is the best policy and to deliberate commit fraud is morally unethical. Its kind of like the voting system. More votes then people. Now there are more cars that are "original" then were produced.

[mrays]

I was at an auction in Auburn IN several years ago with my dad looking at a Cranberry Red "LS6" Chevelle that had just gone through the auction when the proud new owner walked up with a representative from the auction. They were discussing whether or not it was a "Real LS6". I had just looked at the VIN before they walked up and told my dad that it was a Canadian built car so it couldn't be a "Real LS6". I didn't say anything to either of them as they were looking at the car. Other than the fact that the block was a restamp and there are no known Canadian built LS6 Chevelle's I had no proof that it wasn't real. I wanted to tell the new owner to do a little research on Canadian built Chevelles, but was afraid to say anything with the auction rep standing there.

People need to do some research on the cars they're interested in buying before they arrive at the auction. If you're a bidder you should be able to get the VIN and copies of any documentation that comes with the car from the auction company before the auction.