M-22 ???

[Born30YrsLate]

Last fall I picked up what looked like a muncie M22 tranny - it has the course spline input shaft with no rings on the input shaft and a 661 case, I'm thinking it was a warranty replacement trans - it also has no VIN on the case as well as no assembly date. Recently I took the side cover off and the cut of the gears resemble an M21/M20 (gears have a steep cut to them)...I compared them to a '68 M22 I have and there is a definite difference in the angle of the gears in each trans (the '68 gears are at about half the angle as the other trans I picked up). I had initially thought that maybe somebody stuck and early set of M20 gears in the trans, but didn't they use a different size countershaft back then. I am confused why there are no grooves on this input shaft (indicating an M22) but the gear cut is the M21/M20 style.
As always - all input is appreciated.

[camarojoe]

I'm certainly no tranny expert, but I don't think the grooves, splines, etc. are always a guaranteed indicator of m20/M21/M22 transmissions. I have always been told you need to physically see the gears inside to guarantee what it is... sounds to me like its not an M22.

[John Brown]

Some of the over the counter inputs for M21 trannys didn't get the grooves cut in them. Are there any identification grooves in the cluster gear? Usually the inputs and clusters had matching id. grooves.

[JoeG]

There's a thread that covered this, I can't find it, but this site has the info that should help--Joe is right the fool proof way is to compare gears--- web page

[Salvatore]

I always thought the M22 was a fine spline more times than not. Was the M22 around in 68? The Rock Crusher.

[Born30YrsLate]

There is definitely a difference in the gears - it's good to hear that this has been heard of before and has an explanation. The guy I bought it from said it was an M22 - if it's not he said he would give me my money back, so I'm not out any money and gained more knowledge!
The input shaft as well as the cluster gear shaft both have no grooves on them.

Sam - if my memory serves me correct the M22 began to be built in '65 in a very limited quantity and from there to 1969 it was a coarse spline (10 splines) and then from 1970 and up the M22 were fine spline (26 splines) on the input shaft....any body feel free here to correct me if I'm wrong any where I'm just pulling this off the top of my head from something I read a while back....

[JoeG]

Good saved me diggin that spline info out----Here's a better photo --M22 on the right--on left --M20/M21---- The no groove cluster gears are as follows--2rings=M20,1ring=M21, no rings = M22, 1963-1965 M20 or replacement part---(can't gone wrong lookin at the gear angle)

[BBIGG BLOCK 396]

One indication of a transmission being a M22 is it will have no rings around the input shaft.M22 trans came with the course and fine splins input shafts.All M22 cases will have been drilled and tapped for the drain boss.Sometimes you will also see different type spline output shafts on a real M22 trans.But the tale tale sign is to pull the side cover and look at the cut of angle on the gears and that will determine in fact if it is a M22.I have some literature on 4 speeds and will try to get a moderator to post this where everyone can go to it and refer to it when needed.I will have to dig it out of a box.Also the rings or grooves around an input shaft actually designate the gear ratio of the trans.I do not remember all the trans cases #'s to quote them but do have that information.I will get it out and make it availiable to all.I actually dealt in muncie shifters and transmissions for awhile and compiled some information on the trancsmissions.A lot of people see a Borg Warner Super T10 and they think they have found a M22 but Borg warner did not make a M22.Although the Super T10 Borg Warner trans was a great trans to use for a high performance operation.

Bobby Dodson

Bobby

[SuperNovaSS]

This is a little off the subject but is there is no build date or VIN does that mean the trans was an over the counter replacement? I have see many without build dates and VIN stamps in original cars and always wondered. I would think the muncie plant would always stamp a build date but that is obviously not the case, no pun intended.


Jason

[BBIGG BLOCK 396]

Try these sites WWW.gearzone will work,www.4speeds .com will work but when it displays it in th eheader bar it leaves the l at the end off just put that l on and it will work,can't figure out why the last site dont work i have accessed it. But this will help with all the 4 speed muncie questions

Bobby Dodson


http://www.4speeds.com/casting.html

http://www.gearzone.net/muncie2.htm

http://www.interlog.com/~muncie/history.html