1967 Camaro Sleeper Build
 

I originally asked you all for help on the direction to take my project here

https://www.yenko.net/forum/showthread.php?t=160471

I've made a decision and decided to continue the journey with all of your help on this thread because I didn't want to hijack the Technical and Restoration Section. I have a zero mile 350/autogear 4 speed that will be in the car FOR NOW until I find the big block transplant for the car. However I have a lot of parts to sell to keep an eye on the classifieds.
Update: Engine Sold

I've decided to build a period correct super sleeper that will I believe satisfy all the requirements I wanted in the car. I call it a super sleeper since the car will have the original exterior base 6cyl appearance including 230 fender badges. Since the car had z21 trim, it was I believe the most "pleasant" looking paint/trim package you could get, all feeding into the sleeper identity.

I'm happy with my decision because the requirements I wanted would be met which is to:
-Have period correct identity.
-Be a fun driver to take to shows etc
-Be Unique
-Authentic (Depending on your definition)
-"Affordable" to build (No more pro touring expensive bells and whistles, not too picky on '66-'67 date codes etc)
-Be COOL!

When I first purchased my car, the owner said that the car belonged to a family in which their yanked out the 6cyl/ 3 on the tree and replaced with a v8/muncie as evidenced by the terrible job hacking up the trans tunnel and v8 frame brackets that were on the car.


Must have's on my car

Completely original style paint Bolero Red/Z21 Trim white pinstripe extending the length of the car

Retain Standard Factory Badges including L6 230 Fender emblems (Or maybe no engine size emblems?)

Stock Red interior (yes I decided against the black after-all)

Nothing newer than 1971?? I think I will bite the bullet on a '66 or '67 427 4 bolt block. Scratch that after advice from Anthony and Jason, a nice 454 would still be super cool, period correct, cheap, and more realistic to the theme of the build. Definitely want to run winters heads and intake
-I opened the window of time here not only to save money and avoid the Corvette and Chevelle guys (thanks Jason), but I'm sure the car was driven with the original powertrain at least a few years before the first swap happened.

-Big Block 454 not 427 after all.

-Period Correct aftermarket parts Early 70's or older)

-Retain STOCK Hood (no SS hood, no Cowl hood, I want to sneakily squeeze a big block under that hood)

-Use factory 14x5" wheels with 67 Dog Dish Caps all the way around in street trim, drag wheels and tires on the rear for track trim
Update: I have a set of 14x6's and a set of 14x7's and 15x10's for the rear

-Retain original column shift column with handle removed (it's how I bought the car) to go with the theme/identity

Notes/Questions (Please feel free to reply with your ideas/thoughts/advice)

-Will 1969 350 motor mounts the engine will actually sit low enough to clear a stock hood, will have to figure out the header situation
Update: I will use all Factory '67 Big block mounts, etc. I can still use flat hood.

-I have some 4 pistons on the way, I can always have them sleeved to prevent leaking. I have drums too.
Update: Using dated '69 brakes instead, it's what we would have pulled at the junkyard.

-Guldstrand mod for suspension (please make recommendation on springs/shocks for big block)
Update: No Guldstrand mod

-Brake/Fuel Lines ( I have brand new stainless sets, was stainless available back then? if not I can sell these too)
Update: Using stock steel lines, stainless is difficult to seat

-Would it be cooler to run a manual disc/drum master cylinder? (going to run power brakes, just acquired the master cylinder thanks Anthony)

Needed Parts List (Please inform me of anything I'm missing!)

-Complete running big block preferably with accessories still attached
(Snowflake heads a must)
Update: Big Block being built, NOS 077 Heads
Update: Engine Done. studded 2 bolt 454, 077 heads, 198 intake, 4296 carb



-Front springs and shocks
(Still need recommendation)
Update: Moog CS638 springs, kyb shocks painted gret)

Only thing I would change is the heater core. After i traded my first Z/28 to my brother in 1972 or 73 he put a 427 in it. The MT valve cover actually touched the heater hose fitting.

Frankly, if you have a SB heater cover, you already have the right cover. Just punch two holes for the BB heater core. Just not worth the head ache.

I have never had a BB Camaro, so no spring recommendations; but my favorite shock for first gens is adjustable Konis. I have them on my Z.

Thanks Lynn Will do I appreciate your advice! Hopefully I can unload everything I'm selling to get this going.

-Jose

wow pretty cool Van Nuys body number 70.

That is a WAY early car.

This is a pretty good summary of going BBC in first Gen Camaro-
https://stevescamaroparts.blogspot.c...-block-to.html
This is really cool build-I like your approach and there are a lot of good guys on here with valuable experience, parts & insights.
I'm in San Jose too- small world!
Jerry

Jerry thanks for the link! Definitely a small world we should get together sometime! Buy some of my stuff! Just Kidding.

-Jose

Update:

The last 48 hours have been great. I sold some parts and acquired some much needed parts.

I just picked up my spare pre October '66 frame from being straightened

Picked up a bunch of needed parts many from AnthonyS Thanks!

-4 Piston front calipers
-Wheels
-BB Clutch Fan
-BB Pulleys
-Dist Cap
-Battery Topper
-Front Manifold Lift Bracket
-Flywheel
-T3 Headlights
-163 Intake Square Port
-Valve Covers
-Rear Drum backing plates+drums
-Power Master Cylinder

Anthony is good people!!:beers:

aw shucks, kicks a can... thanks guys!

Another thot is, you live in a reasonable climate, you may want to consider removing the heater box altogether which is keeping with your performance build and could save you a few buck$.

I'd run 14x7 or 15x7 wheels. Won't look different, but a lot more tire on the ground.
I'd install regular brake line. SS can be a pain to seat.
Go with aftermarket Al heads. Way too much performance gain from just one change. Heck, you could run a 350 with new Al heads and get BB performance. Make it look original, but the internals don't have to be vintage....

I also agree on the SS lines - I was never able to get any to fit (seat) during my resto, and that was back in the mid 90s - sounds like they haven't gotten any better, I've had steel lines on my car for 25+ years and it all looks fine IMHO, as biased as that is.

My old 1969 barn find / racecar, that Kurt will remember, had the original 14x7 up front and 15x10 in back. 67s would've come with 14x6 (wide SS rims) stock I believe.

And I second that it can be a good idea for anything you cannot see / internal performance - wise to be modern, a lot of gains have been made in the last 45 years - vintage for the other stuff. Radial tires being the most obvious, again, IMO.

A friend here went so far as to "disguise" his modern Aluminum BB heads in his gasser by dabbing on JB Weld on the front (all over, but front especially) and texturing it with a damp cloth to give the appearance of cast iron and painted them orange...

Going to be fun following this build! Cheers.

I thought about this and even have the firewall cover. But happy wife, happy life see below.

I agree with the regular brake line. I sold my stainless set yesterday. Thanks for the advice! I do have a finished 0 mile 358ci with about 450-470 horse but it does not go with the theme of the build, so once I break it in it is up for sale to help pay for hopefully a paint job. But yes I did think about getting those aluminum “camel hump” heads and painting them with the block, you couldn’t tell with exception of the port on the head for the temp sensor. But you just can’t beat the cool factor of an era correct big block when you pop the flat hood.

Anthony I’m having a great time and no way could I do this at this speed without your help! We definitely have a vision for this build, “as if two high school knuckleheads built this in their mom’s garage in the 70’s”. Totally makes it fun, way less pressure, and really ups the cool factor. I haven’t seen a Camaro at show yet that’s going to be like our build.

Totally base Mom’s Camaro z21 Bolero Red Paint Job with pretty white pinstripe 230 fender emblems.
14” base wheels with dog dish caps, pretty base red interior, then…
BAM, massive pissed off big block hiding under that modest little flat hood.

The upgrades for safety will be swaybar, springs, shocks, all painted to look factory. Wife wants AC, happy wife happy life so may have to bite the bullet on a vintage air unit. I’ve seen someone use the stock big block cover and have 4 hoses coming out of that same area instead of just the two for the heater core. Was thinking Mark IV under dash but my stewart warner 2 ⅝” triple gauge set is going there end of discussion.

More on the Vision… like parts pulled from corvettes in the junkyard in the 70’s we aren’t even going to clean some of these parts.

Cool parts teaser:
67 Corvette Steering Wheel
67 Corvette Shifter Handle
Period Correct wheels, street trim and drag trim (15x10 rears)
T3 Lights
BB Chrome Valve Covers
163 Intake
Big Block+GM Forged Steel Crank
More to come on the COVID Camaro stay tuned.

-Jose

Air conditioning is going to kill the look you are after. If your wife is anything like mine she won't go anywhere with you in that car anyway.

Jose,

It sounds like you are full steam ahead! That is great to hear.


Jason

Agree. You can always pick up the delete plate,idk if 100% correct what the vendors are supplying, maybe some one can chime, should be period correct. IF I kept the car Day 2, was what I was going to do.

Im guessing good call on the brakelines. I've had no issues on later model vehicles, and ss is my prefence. Think I read seating issues come from the older brass blocks. Used oe material on my Z, no problems. My lines were still in great shape,,,and are now hanging in the rafters. But we are talking brakes here, lol.

Ditto on the aluminum heads,,weight saving alone.
Years ago I had $$ in a set of cast 202's, realitively speaking, for not much less then a pair of Dart 208's.

Could be wrong, but thought an aluminum headed bigblock in the weight neighborhood of a cast headed small block. Just something I heard.

Thanks yes I'm looking for a pair of 14011077 heads specifically. I do have a delete plate and will probably run that in the beginning. All the heads I'm finding are way over priced and damaged. I found one pair that looked to be in great shape BUT they filled the coolant passages in the heads... Guess I just have to be very patient.. but I have time.

Jason, I just spotted that ad you had in 2015 for 14011077 Heads! I'll take them! jk

Update:
I've aquired many more parts including NOS 77 Heads!

Also I've decided to do the car in stages.
Stage 1 get it running as is with the 350/4speed. I want to appreciate the improvements made on the car and get it on the road.
Stage 1 means factory manual drum brakes all around and manual steering and Old suspension (new shocks and sway bar). It will only take a day to clean out the lines, put in the new wheel Cylinders/ master cylinder and get it going.... Or stopping hopefully.

This gives me the opportunity to break in the motor/trans/rear and hopefully sell the engine. It also gives me time to buy all the parts for stage 2.

Stage 2: power steering, power brakes, suspension, engine bay paint, frame painted, big block swap. Essentially the car mechanically in it's final rendition.

Stage 3: exterior paint and interior

Today I dropped off the booster and master cylinder cap to be restored including Cad plating before photo attached. Tomorrow I'm sending the 3856284 water pump to be rebuilt.

Update:
Unpacked the heads and I'm happy with the purchase. NOS heads with some work done.
Sent the water pump off to get rebuilt.
Also found out the '71 Camaro combination valve can get rebuilt by the same local folks rebuilding the booster and sent that in.
Put a period correct voltage regulator cover on my new voltage regulator.

Very Cool!

Things are coming together quickly! Good progress.

Jason

I've been running a set of those 077 heads on my 427 for many years. I'd like to get another set someday for another 427 that I'm wanting to build.

Luckily the heads I bought were pre helicoiled for the rocker studs. Whoever worked on these cleaned them up nicely and did some preventable maintenance. I'm looking forward to years of service like your heads. If you ever need heads I recommend contacting Jason ( SuperNovaSS ). He is very good at sourcing engine parts.

Here are some pics of the NOS crank. My engine builder says he's had this since the early 70's and has been with him through a few marriages.

Ooooh, that’s the best crank. I like how the machinist had it tagged, “MINE”. Good score!

Jason

Hah! ^yep, funny!

body # 70, what is the vin#? very early car, no holes in front subframe rails?

It shouldn't have the bumper bracket holes in the subframe. I have body 932 and it doesn't have holes! Uses a Large J Nut to hold the bumper bracket on.

Wow!- this project is rockin' Now!
Who are you using for engine build? Not many guys left in SJ area.
Cheers-

Gary Keeling Automotive Machine 884 Aldo Ave Santa Clara

Really great guy and has been in the business over 40 years I believe, but his door says he is always closed because "I want to be left alone to work" He is usually there from 4 AM and leaves before Noon. If you ring the doorbell and he is there he will come out.

Also, my frame has no subframe horn access holes, I even have a spare frame in storage!

Vin is 100118

The vin stamp has additional stamp that I was told when the car sold I think 12/6. So it sat in the dealership and wasn't sold until December. I bought the car off a gentlemen who told me this car was most likely the pretty car sitting in the dealership for mainly display purposes as it was a base L6 model with the style trim group.

When I bought the car it had been swapped over to a V8/4 speed for many years. All of the sheetmetal is original to the car with exception to the fenders, and front header panel. The RH Fender is a GM replacement which wasn't drilled for emblems, the LH Fender is a V8 Fender that had the engine emblem covered with filler before the second repaint. So in its last rendition it was a Red V8, 4 Speed car with no engine size emblems. The son had got a hold of the car and used it pretty hard and the car was non-op'd since '94. I bought the car in Redding and towed it home to San Jose in 2014. It looks like it had one terrible exterior and interior repaint. The LH Quarter needs replacing, it was hit and someone did a terrible repair, the RH Quarter is fairly straight. Whatever person had this car before me sure had their fun... now it's my turn.


I know the seats were recovered at some point with that red and white pattern. I'm still not sure if If I should go full vinyl red original or copy these style covers which I think are pretty cool too.

That's correct DD on the VIN tag means delivery date

Thanks I learn something new everyday! So I'm now an NCRS member and I've been told I could contact them to get the dealership information and delivery date. Would be fun to compare to the stamp.

Wow! The 118th saleable Camaro built in VN.

I've never been so pumped for this project! Thanks a lot to Anthony for helping me with the very cool vision of this build! This isn't necessarily a Day2 build since there aren't really aftermarket parts on the car with exception of the headers, gauges, and traction bar (still need these). More like trips to the junkyard pulling parts off of performance cars of the day.

454 short block, 427 top end, 71 Camaro brake setup (67 front calipers), Vette steering wheel (and possibly shifter handle).

So it's a 70's 454 as the crank is sort of a giveaway, BUT it's going to look almost exactly like a 69 427 engine with correct 69 Drippers (No Cheater Drippers here) but with 67 big block pulley arrangement. I like the alternator on the LH side just in case I run a Mark IV ac with correct compressor don't hate me. So even if I did pop the hood, it's still hiding it's true identity to the untrained eye which I think is fun. Wait until you all see the air cleaner.

Also having fun thinking about what to put on the engine stamp pad... Any suggestions? So far I really like "MADE YOU LOOK"

Should I paint the heads orange to match the block which would be "correct"? Or should we show off the aluminum heads like we bought them over the counter and slapped them on?

I've been really having fun getting into the details of this build. I have NOS M code head bolts for the engine, (Engine builder suggested we can use them for the visible bolts) But I want to find correct NOS washers. Anyone?

That reminds me you all have made me hardware picky which is fun. Now I want correct intake bolts, bracket bolts, you name it.

Also have any of you ever put a big block with standard drop base air cleaner under a flat hood? Or have seen it? I've read somewhere that there was about an inch of clearance under an SS hood. I really want to stick with the flat hood.

The interior vision is pretty much complete with exception to the seat covers, I'm leaning more toward plain original red seat covers. Thanks to Jason I have my complete '67 Yenko style Stewart Warner gauge set ready to go including hard to find correct 2 5/8" 100-250 degree water gauge for the triple gauges under the dash.

What do you all use for correct spray bomb Chevy orange?

Does Eastwood chassis black match the 30% gloss required by most of the engine bay?

And finally the most important question of this post....

Anyone know where can I get an NOS Caution Fan sticker? :grin:

Love what you're doing. Congrats on diving in! As far as the a/c goes, I'd consider running it. My wife and son's ride with me all the time. They love ripping around in the 69 almost as much as I do. Living in an a/c world and with the humidity in VA, it would be nice to have it sometimes. Unfortunately, like has been mentioned, it will really detract from the rest of the engine bay and from the look it sounds like you're going for. That'll end up being a completely personal choice.
I'd be inclined to leave the heads aluminum. L89s had them raw aluminum didn't they?
You can get the "Caution Fan" sticker, NOS, at www.losersrus.com. lolol...

Leave the heads bare. I don't know if you have noticed or not, but the snow flake on the 077 head is smaller than it is on the 074 head. Most people will never notice.

[QUOTE=jbtech;1497935]Gary Keeling Automotive Machine 884 Aldo Ave Santa Clara

Really great guy and has been in the business over 40 years I believe, but his door says he is always closed because "I want to be left alone to work" He is usually there from 4 AM and leaves before Noon. If you ring the doorbell and he is there he will come out.

Such a small world- Gary was who I was going to recommend if needed- He just built a stout 427 BBC for my buddy- picked it up last week. Going into a '69 SS396 El Camino that will be driven near daily, dressed to look like stock 375HP 396. Using a Hyd. Roller from Chris Straub. and TH400 with GV and 3:55 12 bolt. Looking forward to firing it up soon.
Gary is very meticulous and really knows his stuff.
Good Luck!
Jerry